Corvette With Swirls - NEED ADVICE PLEASE

[xxxc5]

Hey folks,

I have a 2004 LeMans Blue Metallic Corvette with light to moderate swirls and scratches. I recently detailed the car with WG Clay, PPE, and DGPS with great results. The finish is smooth and shiny, but as expected, not swirl free since I didn't use a swirl remover and DA. In direct sunlight or under a fluorescent light, the swirls and scratches are very apparent.

http://i38.tinypic.com/15eddtf.jpg


http://i33.tinypic.com/10sbpcl.jpg
I've read dozens of threads and reviews and am having a difficult time choosing which products to use for my particular situation. The Wolfgang and Meguiars products are at the top of my list based on Mike Phillip's reviews and threads.

I know that I'm going to have to use a DA with a swirl remover/compound, followed by a glaze and then topped with a sealant (and maybe a wax if I want an additional "pop"). I need to continue using a sealant as this is my daily driver and I do not have the time to apply carnauba wax every two weeks.

I do have DGPS remaining and would like to use that if possible to save money, but am not tied to it if there is another sealer out there that is more applicable to my color. I want the finish to be deep and wet with the metallic flakes really popping out.

Which products and pads are recommended based on my goals and the severity of the swirls in the pictures above? I have a Meguiars G100/PC 7335 DA to accomplish the task.

Thanks as always!!

[teamerickson]

I used Meguiars 205 with an orange pad to remove swirls from my mercedes with great results. It finished so well (with orange pad) that I didn't follow up with a lighter pad or polish. Most people would probably want to use a second step after the 205 and orange pad but I was happy with the results and was hoping for a one step polish job.

[cnfowler]

Corvettes are known to have rock hard clears. You may need something more aggressive or with more cut than M205. I've had great results with M105 and then stepping down with less aggressive chemicals.

Colin

[cnfowler]

As far as pads, start with a polishing pad and see where it gets you. I've never had to go to a cutting pad on a Corvette. See what your particular situation brings.

Colin

[Mike Phillips]

Which products and pads are recommended based on my goals and the severity of the swirls in the pictures above?

I have a Meguiar's G100/PC 7335 DA to accomplish the task.



Multiple approaches will work, basically you want to pick a 5.5" line of foam pads for the swirl removal because the first generation DA Polisher you have has a harder time keeping the pad rotating under pressure, so stick with smaller pads versus larger pads.

The 4" spot repair pads are too small to try to buff out entire cars with in my honest opinion.

Upgrading to an XP or Griot's ROP would make the job faster and easier.

A lot of people like the CCS pads for use with DA polishers, the new Hydro-Tech pads are flat pad design and they also work well and both come in 5.5" sizes.

For a swirl mark remover, even though the swirls look light/shallow, the Corvette factory paint is notoriously hard so M205 might not have enough abrading power to remove them effectively as it's pretty light in it's cut.

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover offers more abrading power is very easy to use and finishes out really nice with easy wipe-off, so that's another option.

Do you have a preference to brands that you're more comfortable with?


:)

[xxxc5]

Multiple approaches will work, basically you want to pick a 5.5" line of foam pads for the swirl removal because the first generation DA Polisher you have has a harder time keeping the pad rotating under pressure, so stick with smaller pads versus larger pads.

The 4" spot repair pads are too small to try to buff out entire cars with in my honest opinion.

Upgrading to an XP or Griot's ROP would make the job faster and easier.

A lot of people like the CCS pads for use with DA polishers, the new Hydro-Tech pads are flat pad design and they also work well and both come in 5.5" sizes.

For a swirl mark remover, even though the swirls look light/shallow, the Corvette factory paint is notoriously hard so M205 might not have enough abrading power to remove them effectively as it's pretty light in it's cut.

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover offers more abrading power is very easy to use and finishes out really nice with easy wipe-off, so that's another option.

Do you have a preference to brands that you're more comfortable with?


:)

Thanks Mike, no I don't have any preference to brands with the exception of Poorboy's Spray & Gloss/Spray & Waterless Wash which I'm very fond of. Come to think of it, anything I have ever used by PB's has worked well for me. But, I digress. On my previous cars which were light in color and didn't show swirls, I used Megs NXT with great results as well as DGPS. My prep work was clay and polish. This dark blue metallic is new territory for me requiring different maintenance then I'm used too. I'm open to product suggestions and techniques as well since I haven't used my DA in years and am more of a novice with it's operation. My only caveat is continuing to use sealant for maximum protection out here in the desert. Frequent waxing is just not practical for me so I need longer protection and shine.

[xxxc5]

Corvettes are known to have rock hard clears. You may need something more aggressive or with more cut than M205. I've had great results with M105 and then stepping down with less aggressive chemicals.

Colin

That's very interesting to know about the clear, I had no idea. I actually thought it was opposite given how easily I've been getting rock chips in the front fascia.

[Mike Phillips]

This dark blue metallic is new territory for me requiring different maintenance then I'm used too. I'm open to product suggestions and techniques as well since I haven't used my DA in years and am more of a novice with it's operation.


Posted this yesterday for a member with a new black Camaro and it's pretty good advice for you Corvette unless you want to do it all in one day...



The new Camaro is a relatively large size car, instead of tackling the entire car in one day, just do one panel in one day, at least to start with.

Benefits

1. You won't burn out
From beginning to final wipe-off, just buffing out one panel, for example the hood, it's a huge undertaking for a seasoned pro not to mention an Newbie, so at least to start out with, just tackle on panel. This will keep it fun so you don't burn-out.

2. Perfect your technique
By only working on one panel you'll have a chance to perfect your technique, this will give you the confidence to tackle the rest of the car while increasing your comfort level with the tools involved.

3. Reduce your risk
If there are any problems, if you only tackle one panel you'll reduce your risk to just this one panel.



Here's a fairly in-depth article on how to get good results using the PC 7424XP but all the principals and techniques apply to any PC style polisher...

Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/expert-tips/20021-tips-techniques-using-porter-cable-7424xp.html)





My only caveat is continuing to use sealant for maximum protection out here in the desert. Frequent waxing is just not practical for me so I need longer protection and shine.


What desert?

I've used the Griot's Garage Paint Sealant and it leaves a very nice, slick finish.
Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant is a nice sealant.
Meguiar's M20 Polymer Sealant has been around for decades and wipes off easy and leaves the paint very slick.

So many to choose from...


:)

[Mike Phillips]

That's very interesting to know about the clear, I had no idea. I actually thought it was opposite given how easily I've been getting rock chips in the front fascia.

The clears on modern Corvettes are rock hard.

It takes all the fun out of working on them. When I first started posting to Corvettforum most of the guys over there were always talking about how soft the clears on their new Corvettes were and they were making a common mistake of confusion scratch-sensitive with paint softness.

You can have a clear coat finish that scratches very easily but is still very hard.

This is why tools like the Porter Cable DA Polishers have become so popular in the past 15 years or so and that's because clear coat paints are hard and that makes it difficult for you and I to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove below surface defects.

I can't even begin to count how many times I've typed out the above in some fashion or another over the years.

This recent thread talks about paint hardness,

The Clearcoat Failure Photo Gallery Archive (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/rough-draft/19985-clearcoat-failure-photo-gallery-archive.html)

As does this one,
Wet-sanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint (http://www.detailcity.org/forums/wet-sanding-show-car-results/27775-wet-sanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html)


As does this one,
What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/faq/19986-what-means-remove-swirls-scratches-water-spots-out-automotive-clear-coats.html)


Car manufactures should use paints that offer a happy medium, hard enough for longevity soft enough so the average car owner can work on them without being a pro detailer.


:)

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

You are going to need some 105 to start out with to remove those swirls, then gradually move up in polishes and pads to get the results you are looking for. Also like Mike said you will probably have to do multiple steps with the same product/pad before moving to your next step. This will take a little time but you will be rewarded for your efforts.

Also another thing people rarely talk about is removing swirls from a composite body panel. They are much harder to remove than say a piece. On the other hand it is alot easier to induce swirls on a composite body panel also.

[BarryK]

I get a lot of the newer Vettes (C5's, C6's) as jobs from fellow members of my local Corvette Club.
In fact, I did an identical 2004 as yours recently also. A C16 Commemorative Z06 with swirls almost exactly at the level you show in your pictures.

I used my Flex 3401 with LC 6.5" CCS pads.
An orange pad with Megs M105 followed up by a white pad with Megs M205 knocked the paint corrections off very well and I followed up with M21 Sealant topped with M26 wax and the car looked great.

Since you have the older Megs G100 buffer and it's not as powerful as the Flex unit i use I'd follow Mike's advice and use the smaller 5.5" size pads rather than the 6.5" ones I use.

[Mike Phillips]

You are going to need some 105 to start out with to remove those swirls,


You think? They look pretty light?

M105 is a great compound but lots of people find it to have too short of a buffing cycle; I was hoping Meguiar's would announce a tweak to the formula this year at SEMA but apparently more people like it than complain about it.

UC is pretty close to aggressiveness as M105 and seems to be easier to use with a DA polisher.

Products with long buffing cycles or with a long play time help to make a product a little more "Bubba-Proof" in my opinion, M205 has a long play time but it's really a very light cleaner/polish.

The Wolfgang TSR 3.0 is made by Menzerna and I easily pulled #3000 grit sanding marks in this article and I'm sure it could pull even deeper scratches if a person tried with good technique.

Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21463-removing-sanding-marks-griot-s-rop-wolfgang-twins.html)

The goal of the above article wasn't to see what TSR could do but to "Bubba-Proof" a process for the average person, thus the reason I sanded all the way to #3000


It's such an easy product to work with too. Max had a sprinkler go off on his Corvette, 2008 I think, leaving Type II Water Spots in the paint, (not on the paint), and TSR with a 5.5 Hydro-Tech Cyan cutting pad on the XP took them out without even flinching.


Regardless, this is why each person need to do some testing before going over the entire car and in order to do some testing you need a few SMR's and some pads in varying aggressiveness levels.


:)

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Yes, even though you think they are light they will still be a pain in the butt to remove. If it was on a steel panel then I would not have suggested 105 to start with, but since this is a vette that is composite and has hard clear, 105 is going to be the way to go.

[Mike Phillips]

I used my Flex 3401 with LC 6.5" CCS pads.
An orange pad with Megs M105 followed up by a white pad with Megs M205 knocked the paint corrections off very well




The Flex 3401 has a ton more power than the first gen DA polishers, especially with a cutting pad.

3401 = Power with safety


At SEMA I met a few people that have switched entirely over to the 3401 for their detailing businesses.

:)

[xxxc5]

I get a lot of the newer Vettes (C5's, C6's) as jobs from fellow members of my local Corvette Club.
In fact, I did an identical 2004 as yours recently also. A C16 Commemorative Z06 with swirls almost exactly at the level you show in your pictures.

I used my Flex 3401 with LC 6.5" CCS pads.
An orange pad with Megs M105 followed up by a white pad with Megs M205 knocked the paint corrections off very well and I followed up with M21 Sealant topped with M26 wax and the car looked great.

Since you have the older Megs G100 buffer and it's not as powerful as the Flex unit i use I'd follow Mike's advice and use the smaller 5.5" size pads rather than the 6.5" ones I use.

What a great coincidence! Do you have any photos??