learning on my car wet sanding with 1200

[87rx7chick]

so i wet sanded with 1200 because thats what the guy at the body shop said to use. but after buffing i still have deep sanding scratches, not dull, but just texture on paint from sanding

i was using a wool buff head for driver door and driver front fender

with 3m cutting compound 05973 (old style compound)

but some other guy @ the shop came up and told me to use a yellow (pollishing) bonnet so i continued the hood front bumper and passanger fender with just the yellow foam head

to my understanding i was to use the wool, then use the yellow with the compound, then continue to the next stages of swirl removal and pollishing with the according buffing heads.



so...


i stopped using the wool pad on my hood and continue with the yellow foam pad and compound for the hood front bumper and other fender.... because thats what i was told to do


well i notice that i still have deep sanding scratches on all panels except for driver door.

obviously i should use the better cutting wool pad right? then go back over it with following steps.... or is the problem the 1200 grit instead of 1500 or 2000?



either i have to go back over it with the wool, work harder on it with the yellow foam, or should i go over it with 2000 and start all over? i do have a bit of clear to work with. but would it be risky to lightly sand one more time then buff with compound(wool or foam?) then continue on to swirl removal and final glaze?

[tuscarora dave]

It is kind of hard to say without seeing the car up close. Either way it sounds like you're committed to do either one. If it were me I would drop the compound all together, hit it with the 2000 then follow it with a light cutting pad and some Poorboys SSR 2.5 or some other medium cut polish. Then put the lights on it and see where I was with it. Just my oppinion without seeing your sanding marks.

[BrOkEn_Dc2]

At lowest imo start at 1200, then 1500, 2000, 3000 and so on. It will take a lot of compound and time trying to get 1200 sanding marks out.

[LincolnZephyr2006]

Looks like you need to follow up with higher grit sand paper first, then compound.

[Harleyguy]

At lowest imo start at 1200, then 1500, 2000, 3000 and so on. It will take a lot of compound and time trying to get 1200 sanding marks out.:iagree:I also agree with that process.If you start with 1200 you need to work your way to 2000 and even up too 3000.If you use some 105 on 2500 or 2000 you will get the sanding marks out.Not 100% sure but i think Mike P has a thread on wet sanding do a search on it.

[87rx7chick]

so i shouldnt be worried about cutting threw the clear? my painter/teacher said i wont have to worry about it. i didnt sand to much with 1200, im not new to wet sanding but, last thing i want or need is to accidentally cut threw, i bought 1500 and 2000 today so i am ready to tackle it tomorrow


edit: we did like 3 coats of clear... i am sure theres plenty of clear on it. and i didnt spend to much time with 1200...

[Harleyguy]

so i shouldnt be worried about cutting threw the clear? my painter/teacher said i wont have to worry about it. i didnt sand to much with 1200, im not new to wet sanding but, last thing i want or need is to accidentally cut threw, i bought 1500 and 2000 today so i am ready to tackle it tomorrowJust do some reading on this site first and make sure you don't get to close to the edges while sanding.What i learned was run a tape line as close too the edge you can makes a great buffer.Soak the paper before you use it and go slow :xyxthumbs:

[87rx7chick]

Just do some reading on this site first and make sure you don't get to close to the edges while sanding.What i learned was run a tape line as close too the edge you can makes a great buffer.Soak the paper before you use it and go slow :xyxthumbs:

:) thanks for the tip, the shop already taught me about that. i run tape all along my edges to even keep compound out of my jams and seams and keep sanding water out from behind my body kit.


so you guys dont think i should buy a wool buffing head? just stick with the yellow foam one with the medium cut compound?

[Mike Phillips]

so i shouldnt be worried about cutting threw the clear?

edit: we did like 3 coats of clear... i am sure theres plenty of clear on it. and i didnt spend to much time with 1200...

You can cut orange peel fairly quickly with #1200 but it can leave deeper tracers that you'll end up sanding even more to get them out.

A quality #1500 like then Nikken brand will cut as fast as #1200 and leave a lot less tracers do to the Unigrit particle size and particle distribution over the entire sheet of paper.

Machine sanding is even better with 3M Trizact or Mirka Abralon but you can get it done by hand.

If you want to be safe, stick with the #1500 and only sand till the peel is just gone, then move onto #2000 and even #2500 depending upon how old the paint is.

Fresh paint is usually considered a few day old to a week, after that it starts to get pretty hard. You can still sand it easily but buffing out sanding marks will be more difficult.

It's better, faster and safer to spend time up front sanding to a high grit and reduce the amount of time and work spent behind a buffer than it is to sand to a low grit and then spend a lot of time buffing in an effort to get your sanding marks out.




so you guys dont think i should buy a wool buffing head? just stick with the yellow foam one with the medium cut compound?

If it were me I would get an a aggressive wool cutting pad as this will cut out the sanding marks quickly so you don't heat the paint up as much and risk melting it or burning through it.

Then use foam for your follow-up steps to remove any swirls left by the wool pad fibers and compounding abrasive particles.

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's two brand new articles for your reading pleasure...

Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21463-removing-sanding-marks-griot-s-rop-wolfgang-twins.html)

This one has a lot of good related info too...

Wet-sanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint (http://www.detailcity.org/forums/wet-sanding-show-car-results/27775-wet-sanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html)


This article talks about removing RIDS but the same technique can be used to remove Tracers if they're far and few between, if they're everywhere then you might as well resand with a lighter paper and get a quality paper to avoid the problem in the first place.


RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21469-rids-feathersanding.html)


How far are you from Dallas, Texas?

Detail Day at Nick's Custom Detailing - Dallas, Texas - November 14th (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/20530-detail-day-nick-s-custom-detailing-dallas-texas-november-14th.html)

At SEMA I met Bob Greer, a custom car painter and detailer for over 25 years and also the inventor of the Thumbgun! Here you can see a variety of polishers with Thumbguns mounted on them and ready to get to work.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/sema2009/IMG_3988.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/sema2009/IMG_3989.JPG



Bob's going to set us up with one of these new tools for the Dallas Roadshow Class so everyone can have a chance to try it out.

Also, on Sunday we're going to do an Extreme Makeover on an all original 1954 Mercedes-Benz that from what we know has never been painted and never been professionally polished since leaving the dealership. While the paint appears shiny in the below pictures we've been told the finish is filled with swirls and scratches so our goal will be to restore a true swirl-free, show car finish with a team of people including Nick Chapman and myself.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/782/1954MercedesBenz.jpg



I'll be taking my trusty, dusty Brinkman Swirl Finder Light and do my best to capture the true condition of this car's paint before a team of people start polishing it to perfection.

Stay tuned...


:)

[87rx7chick]

You can cut orange peel fairly quickly with #1200 but it can leave deeper tracers that you'll end up sanding even more to get them out.

A quality #1500 like then Nikken brand will cut as fast as #1200 and leave a lot less tracers do to the Unigrit particle size and particle distribution over the entire sheet of paper.

Machine sanding is even better with 3M Trizact or Mirka Abralon but you can get it done by hand.

If you want to be safe, stick with the #1500 and only sand till the peel is just gone, then move onto #2000 and even #2500 depending upon how old the paint is.

Fresh paint is usually considered a few day old to a week, after that it starts to get pretty hard. You can still sand it easily but buffing out sanding marks will be more difficult.

It's better, faster and safer to spend time up front sanding to a high grit and reduce the amount of time and work spent behind a buffer than it is to sand to a low grit and then spend a lot of time buffing in an effort to get your sanding marks out.



If it were me I would get an a aggressive wool cutting pad as this will cut out the sanding marks quickly so you don't heat the paint up as much and risk melting it or burning through it.

Then use foam for your follow-up steps to remove any swirls left by the wool pad fibers and compounding abrasive particles.

:)

<3 thanks mike that makes so much sense. luckly i didnt sand more then i needed to with the 1200. i only sanded untill i leveled orange peal constantly using a 3m rubber squeegee to keep track of my sanding area. i will spot sand the major areas and "tracers" from the 1200 with my 1500 and 2000 ever so lightly and go run out to pick up a 3m wool head tomorrow @ gladwin paint shop down town. they were so helpful today

and omg u guys are so fricken nice here. seriously... every ones in it for the passion and thats very obvious on this site.

[LincolnZephyr2006]

I see that you said you have medium cut.... I would probably give this a try as I have used it after painting... 3M Perfect-It 3000 Extra Cut Rubbing Compound, 3m perfect it extra cut compound, 3m rubbing compound 06060 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-extra-cut-compound.html)

That along with the wool pad will get the job done quite fast. Just remember to use your foam (like Mike said) to follow up on taking the swirls left by the compounding. 1200 is a bit agressive for my tastes, so I always tend to take a bit more time using something less agressive. It seems more time consuming, but the end product is always stunning. Good luck!

[87rx7chick]

I see that you said you have medium cut.... I would probably give this a try as I have used it after painting... 3M Perfect-It 3000 Extra Cut Rubbing Compound, 3m perfect it extra cut compound, 3m rubbing compound 06060 (http://www.autogeek.net/3m-extra-cut-compound.html)

That along with the wool pad will get the job done quite fast. Just remember to use your foam (like Mike said) to follow up on taking the swirls left by the compounding. 1200 is a bit agressive for my tastes, so I always tend to take a bit more time using something less agressive. It seems more time consuming, but the end product is always stunning. Good luck!

i just spent 100 bux on compound and buffing heads i dont have the extra cash to spend on the other compounds. the medium cut or what ever cut 05973 is works great but 1200 grit was just a bit to much idk what brand the 1200 was but i am assuming a lesser brand name cuz of the random deep tracers i got i dont have many but they are there luckly few and far between. i have 1500 and 2000 now that i am working from home and not the shop.

i do have swirl remover. even with the wool head i made swirls , i'll be working on it today and posting pictures of progress if i am able to show swirls and stuff in the pictures.

[Mike Phillips]

i do have swirl remover. even with the wool head i made swirls , i'll be working on it today and posting pictures of progress if i am able to show swirls and stuff in the pictures.


Correct.

The individual fibers that make up a wool pad each cut into the paint and create swirls.

The cutting ability of the fibers is what makes a wool pad a great pad for cutting or abrading the paint to remove the sanding marks but the downside is it leaves its own scratches or swirls in the paint. This is why you need to follow any wool cutting step with a foam polishing step.

Also, after using a rotary buffer to buff the paint, to insure a swirl free finish you need to change the action of your tool, that is switch from a direct-drive rotating tool to an oscillating tool like a PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher.

I can dig up a couple of recent threads where all of this has been discussed and explained in detail.

A 100% swirl free finish can be achieved using only a rotary buffer but it's not always about how good the person doing the buffing is sometimes it's about the paint and how easy or difficult it is to polish swirl-free. By changing the action of the tool to a polisher with a free rotating spindle assembly, a soft foam polishing pad and a light cleaner/polish you can insure a swirl-free finish. Key word being insure.

:)

[87rx7chick]

well i had success today guys. i used 1500 then 2000 and then wool then foam head. i finished compounding half the hood and the driver fender, ran out of daylight so i'll start again earlier tomorrow.

i successfully removed the deep sanding groves and tracers from the 1200 grit. i also got a few more lil goodies from gladwin paint like a foam wet sanding pad (medium) and tape and the wool head and i picked up 3m wax to get me by till i can pick up better stuff from this online store (tight on money right now)