Seeing Dots! Help! - Pinhole or Solvent Pop? Common Paint Issue

[ph16]

Seeing Dots! Help! - Pinhole or Solvent Pop? Common Paint Issue (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/21639-seeing-dots-help-pinhole-solvent-pop-common-paint-issue.html)



Started polishing the hood today and had to stop because when I was done, I saw these tiny little dots all over that I couldn't remove. Here's the pictures.

Before starting:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=12&pictureid=53

After polishing (the swirls are gone but these dots are present):
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=12&pictureid=51
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=12&pictureid=52

The process I used was that I clay bared the hood and then used Menz PO85RD and grey pad with the PC on 5. (I put the product on only after misting the (new) CCS pad with the XMT conditioner.) After wiping that off (and it took a lot of effort because it was dry in places), I used a blue pad with the same Menz product and same PC setting. That wiped off a lot easier. The working time of the Menz product was like 30 seconds before it started to dry. I tried using more product. I tried using less product. The pad was not spinning like it should have either. I don't know what I'm doing wrong there because I've watched the process of Mike Phillips using the PC and it seemed like he had twice the working time that I had - different products though.

When I pulled the vehicle out into the sun, I saw these dots. I tried using the gray pad again but still no luck with the dots. I'm starting to question if they were there to begin with and I just didn't use an aggressive enough product from the start to remove them. I have some PO106FA but didn't want to go any further until I consulted with the forum.

Does anyone know what these dots are and if I put them in the finish? And does anyone know why the working time of the Menz product was so short?
:surrender:

[NotZeroSix]

Those holes youre seeing are called solvent popping.Theres nothing you can do to them other than respray the panel. Though unattractive, do not worry cause these are quite common on some vehicles.

Heres a quote from Mike Philips

The tiny craters or pin holes you see are more than likely what' called Solvent Popping, which occurred when the paint was sprayed. These pin holes are actually present on the before side except because there are so many swirls in the before side, the swirls hide the solvent popping pin holes.

No amount of buffing will remove solvent popping because the holes are throughout the layer of paint, not just on the surface. Compounding and polishing more and more will just remove more paint and reveal a greater depth of the pin holes, it won't make the problem go away.

Keep in mind this is a very high resolution camera and it's being held very close to the paint. After polishing and waxing and then looking at the paint from a normal distance you don't really see them. The only fix is to repaint the entire car or the affected panels.

[ph16]

Those holes youre seeing are called solvent popping.Theres nothing you can do to them other than respray the panel. Dont worry, cause these are common on Hard clear coat volvo s40.

Heres a quote from Mike Philips
The tiny craters or pin holes you see are more than likely what' called Solvent Popping, which occurred when the paint was sprayed. These pin holes are actually present on the before side except because there are so many swirls in the before side, the swirls hide the solvent popping pin holes.

No amount of buffing will remove solvent popping because the holes are throughout the layer of paint, not just on the surface. Compounding and polishing more and more will just remove more paint and reveal a greater depth of the pin holes, it won't make the problem go away.

Keep in mind this is a very high resolution camera and it's being held very close to the paint. After polishing and waxing and then looking at the paint from a normal distance you don't really see them. The only fix is to repaint the entire car or the affected panels.
Thank you Not0, I'm relieved that I didn't do this but I'm also dismayed that my hood looks like this now. It's true, the swirl marks do hide them. I know it's only a toyota truck and not a ferrari but I want my finish to look awesome. Rats!!!!!

Any idea on the working time issue?

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Has the hood been repainted, if not, they are not solvent pop spots. They are more than likely from the sand blasting effect you get from debris from driving on the road. They become very obvious after a vehicle is polished because they stand out against the shiney paint. There was a thread on this before, Jason(DeepGloss) and I explained this on that thread also.

[ph16]

Has the hood been repainted, if not, they are not solvent pop spots. They are more than likely from the sand blasting effect you get from debris from driving on the road. They become very obvious after a vehicle is polished because they stand out against the shiney paint. There was a thread on this before, Jason(DeepGloss) and I explained this on that thread also.
It is the factory paint. I guess they could be from road debris because I did not see them on my test area which was the tailgate. The dots are pretty consistent all over the hood. Do you have a link to the thread you mentioned?

edit: is this the link?
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/19565-white-dots.html

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Thats the thread. I have a few on the hood of my vette also. Like I said it is not solvent pop, it is the sand blasting effect while driving from the debris in the air.

[ph16]

Thank you very much Rocket :props:,

Soo . . . if by chance I use a polish with more cut I could minimize how many there are and then maybe invest in a bug deflector?

Anyhow, any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong with regards to the short working time of the Menz product?

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Thank you very much Rocket :props:,

Soo . . . if by chance I use a polish with more cut I could minimize how many there are and then maybe invest in a bug deflector?

Anyhow, any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong with regards to the short working time of the Menz product?

You could minimize them if they are shallow, but since they are white they are through the color coat so unless you repaint they will always be there. A bug deflector would be big a big help.

Sounds like you are not using the right amount of product and also take your pc up to 6. The polish should work longer than 30 seconds for sure. If with a rotary it works longer than than that. Was it cool out, if so it sounds like it isn't spreading like it should. To keep the bottle of polish warm fill up something with very warm ater and keep the bottle in that or some other type of heat source to keep the polish in a more liquid state.

[ph16]

I will keep that in mind. I started at #3 and then went to #5 once it was spread out as per Mike's videos. The amount I put on the pad was a circle about 1/2" inside the circumference of the 6-1/2" pad. The temp was around 70 today so I didn't cool or heat the product. All of my detailing products stay inside the house until needed so I know they were at the same temp. And the truck stayed in the garage so there was no sun directly on it while I was polishing and the engine was cool. Thanks so much for the advice Rocket. I appreciate your time.

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

You are welcome, anytime. Sounds like you are going to have to find just the right amount of polish then. I use about about four dots on a pad with a rotary and its work time is over a minute.

[ph16]

I had a thought. I tried to polish in a localized area first with Wolfgang paintwork enhancer, once with a Megs polish, twice with PO106FA, 4 times with ScratchX and it didn't even make a dent in the dots. I realize that they could be from road debris but it seems far too consistent from the front of the hood to the back, left to right and I started wondering, could this be metal flake I'm seeing? Here's some photos.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=12&pictureid=70

Some of the dots are seen around the edge of the flourescent light.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=12&pictureid=69

I'm not trying to deny the advice that's been offered but trying to rule out other explanations. I haven't polished on any of the side panels yet to see if the dots are there as well.

[OGauge4Me]

Asphalt Rocket:
Would a glaze help in this situation or one of the commercially available color fill waxes help?

I realize that a repaint is the best fix but in this case there may be a temp work around.

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Asphalt Rocket:
Would a glaze help in this situation or one of the commercially available color fill waxes help?

I realize that a repaint is the best fix but in this case there may be a temp work around.

Unfortunetly there is nothing that will cover it up. The little holes are so deep that nothing is going to fill them up. The reason they are white is they are below the color. Every car has them that drives up down the road, it is worse if you have to drive on a highway everyday.

[ph16]

Ok, after some further investigation, I gave some bad info. I noticed that the dots start at about 6" from the front of the hood (where I would expect them to be worse if they were road-blasting) and all the way to the back of the hood from left to right. I also do not see any dots on the front of any of the fenders. I believe it has something to do with the paint but I need an expert to look at it to confirm this.

Per OGauge's PM, I tried the "hand in a baggie" and I was impressed at how much this can tell about the finish. It magnified x1000 what can be felt by hand. It felt smooth at the front of the hood and rough towards the back (over the dots) even though the entire hood was polished. I also tried a toothpick to gently try to put it in one of the dots but this was inconclusive.

I looked at the front of the roof, again weighing the possibility that it is in fact road-blasting. After clay baring it, it felt smooth (w/ the baggie) and there was evidence of road-blasting but it was a different appearance and pattern than what's on the hood. Not to mention that I hadn't polished the roof yet so I feel confident that what little was there could be corrected.

I apoligize for saying that the dots were over the entire hood. This new information makes me lean farther from road-blasting and more towards something else. What that something else is, I don't know. I'm not one to disagree with experience and Asphalt, if AGO had a rep system, I'd have repped you several times for all your help, not just in this thread but others as well. Not to mention that you have much more experience at this than I, I'm the new kid on the block. Something just isn't adding up - that's all I'm saying.

I think my next step is to have someone experienced take a look at it. Because if it is a problem with the paint, it shouldn't be doing that and Toyota is going to hear about it especially in light of how I take care of my truck plus it's still under warranty. I fully expect to hear "NO" and that I'll have to pay for the respray myself but nothing ventured . . .

Does anyone know a reputable and honest professional in Northern Ohio who can look at my hood and give me an honest opinion?

Sorry for the long blog and thanks again for all the help.

Still learning,
Paul

P.S. shouldn't this guy be using the two bucket method? :autowash:

[JohnHenry]

Has the hood been repainted, if not, they are not solvent pop spots.

You sure about that, AR?

I don't know what the spots are on PH16's car, but I find solvent pops (pinholes) on factory paint all the time. I've had more than one discussion with car owners about these tiny holes. Prior to polishing, the pops are "filled" with dirt, old wax, oxidation. When I recondition the paint, the holes appear because the clearcoat has been leveled, removing the debris from the holes. (This is my very unscientific theory.)

Some customers have questioned the mysterious appearance of pinholes in their paint after polishing.

If someone has a better explanation, I'm all ears.