Seeing Dots! Help! - Pinhole or Solvent Pop? Common Paint Issue

[Mike Phillips]

Congratulations on your successful remedy to the issue and thank you for sharing your story on our forum, this may end up being a guide for others to follow in similar situation.

As for your fresh paint...

You'll find opinions all over the place on this topic and it comes up all the time, here's the nitty gritty...

First, follow the recommendations of the painter or shop manager that returned your car to you, there may be some type of warranty and you don't want to void it on your part by doing something outside of their recommendations.

Second, to my knowledge, there's not a single "Paint Manufacture" that recommend "sealing" the paint before 30 days and most recommend waiting longer, up to 60 and 90 days. Some of this could just be over cautious, but again, to my knowledge, despite what you may read by a forum member, there are not "Paint Manufactures" that recommend sealing the paint before 30 days.

So you can do what you want but do consider what your painter recommends and what the paint manufacture recommends.

As for products that are safe for paint, one product that's been around for decades that's safe for paint is Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze or it's modern twin, M81 Hand Polish.

Neither of these provide protection like a wax or paint sealant, they are mostly for making the paint look good plus they give you something to spread around and wipe off, or in other words they give you something to use and apply to the paint, which will tend to make you happy. (It's something to do to the paint that's safe).

Bot M07 and M81 are kind of fun to apply and wipe off and they do make paint look clear and glossy.

The good news is moder clear coat paints are pretty touch on their own so i f you have to put the car back into service as a daily driver just try to keep it clean and remove any contaminants like a bird dropping as soon as it's discovered.


How to safely remove a dried bird dropping (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/23231-how-safely-remove-dried-bird-dropping.html)


So keep some clean microfiber polishing cloths in a clean plastic bag or something and keep some spray detailer in the car for emergencies.


:)

[ph16]

Great advice. And I never thought of keeping a spray detailer and mf towel in the vehicle.

Thanks for all the advice throughout this process Mike.:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

***Bump***

7/12/2010
Moved to "Hot Topics" and this thread now has a blue clickable link for a subject for every time the topic of "little holes" or "Pinholes" or "Solvent Pop" comes up on the forum.

It is a common thing to see these little holes in factory paint after machine polishing and the cause is not always known. Page 3 of this thread includes what I've I've seen over the years on this topic and the OP of this thread actually had his hood repainted to fix the issue.

See page 2 of this thread also...

1994 Porsche Detailed for "Operation Comfort" Modeled by Brittany from Stuart, Florida (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/26233-1994-porsche-detailed-operation-comfort-modeled-brittany.html)


:)

[Paul Mitchell]

I've been researching information on solvent pops as it appears I may have them on my 2013 Chevy Avalanche purchased this past August. I first noticed a paint issue on the front bumper cover where it appeared the White Diamond paint had "stretched" and the black plastic was showing through. I stopped by the dealer and they stated they would take care of that issue. I then arrived home and I waxed the truck with OCW and noticed what appeared to be about 20 solvent pops on the hood. That got me to thinking that the hood and bumper cover may have suffered damage and were repainted by the dealership. I understand the dealership does not have to disclose this information to a prospective buyer unless the damage exceeds a certain percentage or dollar amount. I don't have photos and won't have them as I've misplaced my digital camera and frankly it was so cheap it probably wouldn't have shown them anyway. My questions are as follows:

1. After three months will any more solvent pops show up?

2. Since it's a daily driver is it worth the time and trouble to pursue a repaint of the hood? When I say "daily" I really mean "bad weather" since when the sun shines in the Pacific Northwest I drive my Mustang.
Unfortunately I spend more time in my truck!

3. If I do nothing will I have more problems in the future if I polish the truck? Will that expose more of the pop? You really have to look closely to see the pops and if there won't be any problems in the future I'd probably leave it like it is.

Looking forward to your advice.

[ForceofWill]

Can we sticky this? I have this on my brand new 2013 Boss 302, like 500 miles on it new. It's not pitting or from road debris. I also had the same problem show up after polishing my new 2012 GT in grabber blue. I think a lot of people are seeing this with brand new cars after polishing and don't know what it's called and might be freaking out. I know I was.

This isn't addressed in the swirl sticky but it's pretty common.

[Mike Phillips]

I've been researching information on solvent pops as it appears I may have them on my 2013 Chevy Avalanche purchased this past August. I first noticed a paint issue on the front bumper cover where it appeared the White Diamond paint had "stretched" and the black plastic was showing through.

I stopped by the dealer and they stated they would take care of that issue. I then arrived home and I waxed the truck with OCW and noticed what appeared to be about 20 solvent pops on the hood. That got me to thinking that the hood and bumper cover may have suffered damage and were repainted by the dealership.

I understand the dealership does not have to disclose this information to a prospective buyer unless the damage exceeds a certain percentage or dollar amount. I don't have photos and won't have them as I've misplaced my digital camera and frankly it was so cheap it probably wouldn't have shown them anyway.


My questions are as follows:

1. After three months will any more solvent pops show up?



Theoretically "no".

The solvent pops happen when the solvent or fumes move through wet paint after spraying to get to the top and leave behind their only little tunnel. Imagine a bubble of air at the bottom of a glass of water moving up to the surface because air is lighter than water. In the case of paint, because the gooey paint is in the process of setting-up, the path the bubble/solvent/gas travels is not filled in and thus the hole or tunnel is left.

What we see on the surface is the opening or hole to the tunnel. The problem is not "on" the surface, the problem is "throughout" the layer of paint, or matrix.






2. Since it's a daily driver is it worth the time and trouble to pursue a repaint of the hood? When I say "daily" I really mean "bad weather" since when the sun shines in the Pacific Northwest I drive my Mustang. Unfortunately I spend more time in my truck!

Since it's been over a half a year since you made this post where are you at now with this paint issue? (Sorry, I just now found your post after tracking back to this thread from this thread.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/67025-pits-after-using-meguiars-105-205-a.html



[QUOTE=Paul Mitchell;772374]

3. If I do nothing will I have more problems in the future if I polish the truck? Will that expose more of the pop?



I don't think you'll get more solvent pops or tunnels in the paint but if you polish the paint you "might" uncover more. If you polish the paint you will likely not remove them 100% but just remove more good paint.




You really have to look closely to see the pops and if there won't be any problems in the future I'd probably leave it like it is.




If you haven't done anything to the panel/paint as of today I'd probably let it go...






Can we sticky this? I have this on my brand new 2013 Boss 302, like 500 miles on it new. It's not pitting or from road debris. I also had the same problem show up after polishing my new 2012 GT in grabber blue. I think a lot of people are seeing this with brand new cars after polishing and don't know what it's called and might be freaking out. I know I was.

This isn't addressed in the swirl sticky but it's pretty common.




Lots of good in-depth info and conversations is this thread...

Stucked...


:D

[Paul Mitchell]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I've been involved with a major remodel to a home and just finished it, put it on the market and sold it. I haven't done anything with the truck but need to shortly if I decide to have it repaired.

The dealer sent me to their preferred body shop and the owner says the spots are "fisheyes" and not solvent pops. He says he would sand it down to hopefully remove the fisheyes and re-clear the hood. We also found a spot on a fender that looks like it burned through the clear and he says they can spot repair that one though it's only visible in certain lighting conditions. It's odd because you can't see it in the sunlight but only on a dark cloudy day.

Given these conditions would you just live with the hood and fender as they really doesn't bother me but I would like the bumper sprayed.

Thanks for your time and your reply.

[Paul Mitchell]

Bump for Mike

[Mike Phillips]

In context...





I've been researching information on solvent pops as it appears I may have them on my 2013 Chevy Avalanche purchased this past August.

I stopped by the dealer and they stated they would take care of that issue. I then arrived home and I waxed the truck with OCW and noticed what appeared to be about 20 solvent pops on the hood.

That got me to thinking that the hood and bumper cover may have suffered damage and were repainted by the dealership.

My questions are as follows:

1. After three months will any more solvent pops show up?

2. Since it's a daily driver is it worth the time and trouble to pursue a repaint of the hood? When I say "daily" I really mean "bad weather" since when the sun shines in the Pacific Northwest I drive my Mustang.
Unfortunately I spend more time in my truck!

3. If I do nothing will I have more problems in the future if I polish the truck? Will that expose more of the pop? You really have to look closely to see the pops and if there won't be any problems in the future I'd probably leave it like it is.

Looking forward to your advice.

The above is a recap of the original issue and I answered above too...





I haven't done anything with the truck but need to shortly if I decide to have it repaired.

The dealer sent me to their preferred body shop and the owner says the spots are "fish eyes" and not solvent pops.



To me, this kind of confirms the affected panels were repainted at the dealership because I don't think you can get fish eyes when a vehicle is painted on the assembly line, at least this type of problem would never be the "norm".





He says he would sand it down to hopefully remove the fish eyes and re-clear the hood.



By sanding he's trying to remove whatever the offending substance is that is causing "surface tension", besides sanding he will likely chemically strip the area multiple times and perhaps his shop uses a fish eye eliminator, don't quote me on that as I don't know this guy or his shop practice.

As such, chances are good he can eliminate the fish eyes with some or all of the above steps and assuming they are a quality shop, you'll get back a factory looking finish. If you go this route, let him know you're into detailing and buffing your own cars and ask for an extra coat of clear so you have something to work with into the future.




We also found a spot on a fender that looks like it burned through the clear and he says they can spot repair that one though it's only visible in certain lighting conditions.


Spot repair means a blend line, of the clear somewhere. To me, if the spot repair include painting up to some type of definitive body line or edge then this is okay, if the blend line ends in the middle of a panel you always have this line or section on the panel where there's original clear and new clear and it never really flows to become "one".






Given these conditions would you just live with the hood and fender as they really doesn't bother me but I would like the bumper sprayed.

Thanks for your time and your reply.



You're call. The fish eyes are not going to get any worse and in my experience, a person has to know where to look and look there in order to see them. You're the kind of person to keep their rigs polished and waxed so I doubt it will be a problem over time.

I'm not a fan of blend lines on panels, on a white daily driver it's less of an issue than it would be on something special interest.


:)

[Paul Mitchell]

Thanks for the reply Mike. Like you, I thought the panels were probably re-painted due to the fish eyes on the hood and what appears to be a rotary burn on the fender but nobody has yet confessed. I'll probably have them paint only the bumper as the White Diamond is a GM tri-coat color and I hear it's hard to match. I appreciate your expertise and willingness to help me and other AGO members when we have problems with our vehicles.

[masonh]

Could be solvent pop, but I can't tell from the pictures. When the paint goes in too thick, it can't breathe vapors out fast enough. Auto paint cures from inside out. I too have seen factory paint with these pin holes. But it would be hard to confuse with road chips. The vapor pop makes uniform small holes and to be honest, you can't even see them until you compound polish. They are so small that you really don't see them afterwards. When you polish paint with these holes, you push a usually light colored polish down into the holes, then you wipe off and wax or whatever, and bam you have a 100 tiny white dots, that are next to impossible to fix. When and if I get them, I immediately sand the paint down and repaint, not worth the headache of trying to fix them.

2 mils seems thin to me also,but I am not knowledgeable about Toyota's paint process.