How many times can you buff?

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Hey Dana,

Can you tell me how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop???

It's a secret, just like how many times you can buff your car before hitting primer.

[sportscarhiatus]

The only advice I can offer in terms of paint removal with your process is that you will probably be removing between 2-4 microns of paint.

Thank you. That's all I wanted to hear. I appreciate you actually trying to help members of this forum rather than others who make sarcastic answers.

So how many total microns of paint does an average vehicle have?

[christian900se]

Thank you. That's all I wanted to hear. I appreciate you actually trying to help members of this forum rather than others who make sarcastic answers.

So how many total microns of paint does an average vehicle have?

Well, that is more specific to the exact model car you have, and even more specific each color will be different in terms of thickness. Paint thickness is very unique to the color and car model you have, but I looked around and found that black G35 paint has been found to have between 80 microns at low points to 120+ microns for the high points.

Now the low points are at different points on the vehicle, and this is only dealing with original paint. I would expect to see an average of around 100 to 110 microns on a black Nissan from what I have seen. Remember that the first time around with polishing, you have much more significant defects to remove compared to any subsequent polishings where you will not need as aggressive a pad/polish combination. Normally, going around a car to maintain a swirl free finish with a finishing polish will remove a minimal amount of paint, the trick is maintaining the car properly to keep those swirls at bay.

[Rsurfer]

Sports, you ask a loaded question and you got loaded answers. Lou, Dana and Christian gave you the best answers possible. Short of getting a PTG you won't really know. Just use good washing techniques and use the least aggressive correction and you'll get 10+ years of enjoyment.

[Blackthorn One]

You can't get a definite answer ot the question. That's why professionals still use a paint depth guage. What type of car, what polish/compound has been used, with what pads, has it had body work, how old is it and etc. I could go on.
He said a NEW vehicle, not one with bodywork or previous polishing or any previous work done to it. I think it's a reasonable question.

[loudog2]

He said a NEW vehicle, not one with bodywork or previous polishing or any previous work done to it. I think it's a reasonable question.
Do you know how many new cars get damaged on the way to the dealer lot(off the train and semi's)? They wetsand, polish and even re-paint lots of cars. Funny thing is, they don't even have to tell you.

[Bunky]

It is a reasonable question.

For example, how many times can I use SIP on a typical paint before even getting concerned about going through the clear -- we know 1 is ok, 2 is ok, 3 ? 4? 5? times?

Mike P, can you provide guidance?

[sportscarhiatus]

Sports, you ask a loaded question and you got loaded answers. Lou, Dana and Christian gave you the best answers possible. Short of getting a PTG you won't really know. Just use good washing techniques and use the least aggressive correction and you'll get 10+ years of enjoyment.

Yes, I understand I asked a loaded question... and I know a PTG is best. But, was just wondering from you pros out there, what your estimates were... that's all. And yes, my question is not necessarily based on my car. We were just talking in the lunchroom, and one guy stated "I'll NEVER buff my car... I'm worried I'll take the clear coat off!".

So then I countered and stated, "If you buff it correctly and use the minimum correction needed to remove defects, you'll be fine."

But then he asked me the million dollar question, which is what I posted to the forum: "Then how much paint do you remove every buff and how many times can I buff my car before I eat away the clearcoat?" So that's when I didn't know what to say or how to answer.

See? That's what I was getting at, hence my post/thread.

[2003 GMC Denali]

Mike... please stop the silliness.

I want to know the ultimate answer as well.

[christian900se]

Mike... please stop the silliness.

I want to know the ultimate answer as well.

There is no ultimate answer. Paint thickness has nothing to do with resprays, it all has to do with the amount of that each manufacturer uses to finish a car. This amount varies between brands and even between paint colors so it is impossible to tell. Some BMW hard clears have been up to 300+ microns thick out of the factory, while some japanese cars (Mazda RX8s come to mind) have extremely thin paint (think 60-70 microns, very thin) out of the factory.

If you want an answer, the minimum you can do is search on google for your cars paint thickness and hope to find an answer from a forum where someone has done a detail where paint measurements were taken.

For instance I would google: black Saab paint thickness. Thats how I helped sportscarhiatus with those numbers, but honestly there is nothing more to say on the subject since it has been repeated multiple times that you cannot know for sure without using a paint thickness gauge since every single car is different.

[christian900se]

So then I countered and stated, "If you buff it correctly and use the minimum correction needed to remove defects, you'll be fine."

But then he asked me the million dollar question, which is what I posted to the forum: "Then how much paint do you remove every buff and how many times can I buff my car before I eat away the clearcoat?" So that's when I didn't know what to say or how to answer.

Thats fine, but I think the issue was it seemed to Dana and Lou that you were rejecting their advice even though they were really giving you the best answers any professional could give you.

But like I said; that original buff to get rid of the majority of swirls will remove more clear since you will be leveling deeper defects. Then, assuming your washing and maintenence procedures are sound and you don't instill any more significant swirling, subsequent maintenence buffing with a finishing polish and pad to maintain your finish will remove less than 1 micron of paint. The key is to avoid re-swirling your car!

[Blackthorn One]

Do you know how many new cars get damaged on the way to the dealer lot(off the train and semi's)? They wetsand, polish and even re-paint lots of cars. Funny thing is, they don't even have to tell you.
Wow, I missed a page. Sorry about that.

[Mike Phillips]

For what it's worth, in all the years I've been detailing cars, working with other's that detail cars, teaching detailing classes and posting to forums, I've rarely encountered "enthusiast detailers" that have buffed so much that they've buffed through the clear layer and exposed the color coat layer.

:)

[A4 1.8tqm]

How about this,

Without measuring the paint thickness, there is no way to know. But, an average new(er) car with factory paint that has not previously been polished can have the paint corrected, buffed and maintained swirl-free as long or longer than the car will likely be on the road, when "properly" cared for.

As has been stated already, the first "correction" step will remove the most paint, after that you can maintain the finish with very light polishing a 1-2 times a year. If you have to compound twice a year its a different story. You can "maintain" buff exactly 100 times, and "correction" buff exactly 5 times

You win the argument Vs the "I'll NEVER buff my car" guy. :xyxthumbs:

[2003 GMC Denali]

For what it's worth, in all the years I've been detailing cars, working with other's that detail cars, teaching detailing classes and posting to forums, I've rarely encountered "enthusiast detailers" that have buffed so much that they've buffed through the clear layer and exposed the color coat layer.

That's a good enough answer for me ! :dblthumb2: