Finishing touch: Black or Blue pad.

[cobraa]

I'm planning to do a 20hours detailling job on my black pearl metallic skyline this winter while in storage.

I have the whole PB SR lines and bought recently the WG TSR3.0 and Finishing Glaze combo.I have the impression that the WG will give me better result.

So, I was thinking, TSR 3.0 with an orange or white pad( depending on the result I see). But, I do have a black and blue pad. Which one should I use with Finishing glaze? Actually, could you tell me the difference between black,red and blue pad.

Or, should I use a white pad with FG?

Thanks expert!!Im the MAN:dblthumb2:

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Use the blue pad to final polish. The gray pad has a very slight cut to it. The red is actually the same as the blue pad.

[agpatel]

Use the blue pad to final polish. The gray pad has a very slight cut to it. The red is actually the same as the blue pad.

2x blue is the way to go.

Maybe it is just me but I find red a little bit softer/less dense than blue. Blue is a bit more stiffer IMO. Both are good for final polishes.

Have wanted to try the gold pad but have not read much about it though.

[cobraa]

So the blue pad with FG will burnish my paint? But would it remove light marring made by my TSR3.0 ?

[Mike Phillips]

What machine are you using?

Assuming it's a PC style polisher, (I hate assuming)





So, I was thinking, TSR 3.0 with an orange or white pad( depending on the result I see).


Do a Test Spot first. Besides pad and product choice, your skills and abilities area also a factor. Here's a test spot that was done using the Flex 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher but the same principals apply with any machine or when working by hand.

How to do a Test Spot using the Flex 3401 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-videos/20849-how-do-test-spot-using-flex-3401-a.html)


Make sure you can make one small area look good or at least to your expectations before going over the entire car. If you run into any problems making one small area look good try a different pad/product combo and/or come back here and post what you're seeing and everyone here will do their best to help you tweak your technique to help you dial-in a successful process you can then duplicate over the entire car.




But, I do have a black and blue pad. Which one should I use with Finishing glaze?
Or, should I use a white pad with FG?



Like Dana said, go with the blue foam pad if you've removed the defects to your satisfaction using the Total Swirl Remover 3.0


Again, assuming you're using a PC style polisher, use the 5-6 speed setting for correction work and the 5.0 speed setting for the Finishing Glaze, (6.0 is kind of violent for finishing work).

Then apply the LSP of your choice.

[cobraa]

Sorry Mike for the clarification.

I only have a Makita 9227.

Since it's a black car and marring show more easily with this color. Should I do a 3 step( TSR3.0 Orange pad(assuming the correction is great),SSR2 white pad and FG blue pad( for a good burnish reflective look) or 2 step ( TSR and FG) ??

Yeah, I really want to take the times to detail it to perfection to see how good can I bring the paint to. For LSP, 1 coat of Klasses Sealant and 3 coat of Souveran will certainly make it look good!

[MisterShark]

The gray pad has a very slight cut to it.

It does?

Is the pad comparison chart (http://www.autogeek.net/ccs-5-5inch-foam-buffing-pads.html) on AG incorrect in specifying: "It has no cut and will apply thin, even coats of paste and liquid waxes, sealants, and glazes." ?

I've been planning to apply Collinite 845 with my PC via a gray pad since the chart mentions one of it's uses as application of sealants. Should I purchase a blue, red, or gold pad instead for this?

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Sorry Mike for the clarification.

I only have a Makita 9227.

Since it's a black car and marring show more easily with this color. Should I do a 3 step( TSR3.0 Orange pad(assuming the correction is great),SSR2 white pad and FG blue pad( for a good burnish reflective look) or 2 step ( TSR and FG) ??

Yeah, I really want to take the times to detail it to perfection to see how good can I bring the paint to. For LSP, 1 coat of Klasses Sealant and 3 coat of Souveran will certainly make it look good!

I would without a doubt use a step, maybe even a four if needed. Do not jump from the orange to blue pad. Use a white pad in between the orange and blue pads. Also you might have to go over the vehicle with the white pad a few times before going to your final polishing with the blue pad.


It does?

Is the pad comparison chart (http://www.autogeek.net/ccs-5-5inch-foam-buffing-pads.html) on AG incorrect in specifying: "It has no cut and will apply thin, even coats of paste and liquid waxes, sealants, and glazes." ?

I've been planning to apply Collinite 845 with my PC via a gray pad since the chart mentions one of it's uses as application of sealants. Should I purchase a blue, red, or gold pad instead for this?

Yes, the gray pad has a very slight cut. If you are going to apply your lsp I would use a blue pad on up. Also when using the pc the gray pad can induce slight marring more so than a rotary.

[MisterShark]

Also when using the pc the gray pad can induce slight marring more so than a rotary.

:eek:



Thanks for the heads-up!
Time to exchange one of my grey pads for a blue one.

[Mike Phillips]

I only have a Makita 9227.

Since it's a black car and marring show more easily with this color.


Just from what I've seen and experienced, it's pretty hard to get a 100% swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer. That's if you do things like strip the paint down with a solvent or detergent wash like some do and then pull it out into the blazing sun at noon and look for swirls and holograms.

If you leave it in the garage and just go from step to step by the time you're finished applying our LSP it should look swirl-free and if there were any swirls you wont' see them because your LSPs will have filled them in and thousands of do-it-yourselfers do it this way.

Just to note, it's not that a 100% swirl free finish can't be achieved using only a rotary buffer but sometimes it's not about the person doing the work but about the paint itself as some paints are more polishable than others.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't as a practice apply finishing waxes or paint sealants using a rotary buffer. After the last machine polishing step I would either apply by hand or with a DA style polisher. If you want to apply your LSP with a rotary, maybe do just the hood and after removing the wax pull the car out into the sun and inspect the results and make sure it's looking great before doing the entire car.



Should I do a 3 step( TSR3.0 Orange pad(assuming the correction is great),SSR2 white pad and FG blue pad( for a good burnish reflective look) or 2 step ( TSR and FG) ??


I'd go with Dana's recommendation. You can test with just a 3 step and inspect before applying wax and see how it looks and tweak your process.

Do a Test Spot to just one section using your entire product and pad process and then inspect the results, make sure you can make one small area look great.


:)

[SpotlessDetail]

Mike.. I was just curious. Do you use a DA polisher for your final polish or do you use a rotary for that too? Also do you have any experience with using wool polishing pads? I love using the wool cutting pads as opposed to using an orange foam. I find it follows the contours of the vehicle better and seems just all around easier to use so is it worth giving the wool polishing pads a shot? Thanks

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Mike.. I was just curious. Do you use a DA polisher for your final polish or do you use a rotary for that too? Also do you have any experience with using wool polishing pads? I love using the wool cutting pads as opposed to using an orange foam. I find it follows the contours of the vehicle better and seems just all around easier to use so is it worth giving the wool polishing pads a shot? Thanks

The wool pad is going to level the paint better than any foam pad will. This in turn will give you a better finish. You will always end up with a better finish in the end when using a wool pad vs. doing the car by all foam pads. I am with you, if an orange pad or anything stronger is needed I use a wool pad. That has always been my rule of thumb. You should be able to finish with a rotary without holograms with a rotary.

[SpotlessDetail]

Awesome! Thats what I wanted to hear. I guess I'll order some more wool pads within the next week or so. I have another Vette to do (which I experienced has ridiculously hard clear!)in about 2 weeks so I will try them out on that. I don't get holograms by using only the buffer it just threw me hearing people having a hard time with it. The pic is the Vette I did last week which made me wish I had all wool pads because the body lines are all over the place! Whole body shot was before. Trunk shot was after. Was a lot of fun though and I cant wait for the next one.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike.. I was just curious.


On automotive finishes I do. Changing the action of the tool insures a swirl or hologram free finish as this forum member found out.

What am I doing wrong - Holograms after using the rotary buffer (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/20433-what-am-i-doing-wrong-holograms.html)

I think I posted a pretty detailed reply to the above thread with the issues of only using a rotary buffer to try to get a swirl free finish.




You should be able to finish with a rotary without holograms with a rotary.




Key word being should

Skill and experience are HUGE factors also.

But it's my opinion, (for whatever that's worth), that I don't believe it's possible to create a 100% swirl free finish on 100% of all the different paint systems that have come and gone in the market and are currently be sprayed both OEM and in the Refinishing industry.

I worked on a black Mosler that scratched if you looked at it wrong and anything more aggressive than looking at it was able to instill swirls and scratches. Foam pads and a DA Polisher saved the day on that project.

Again, that's just my opinion but I've buffed out a lot of cars with a rotary buffer and sometimes it's not about the person, the pads or the products, sometimes it's all about the paint.

Then there's the whole issue of how do you check for swirls? I wrote this on MOL last week,

is da polisher a mandatory procedure after every rotary? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37427)


Also, when you talk about swirl free you need to define how you're going to test for this. If you're going to finish with the rotary buffer and then apply a wax or paint sealant and the car never leaves the garage and then inspect it, it will likely look swirl free.


If you're going to chemically strip the paint after the last rotary step and then pull the car out into bright sunlight, like at noon in August in Arizona, you will likely see at a minimum, light holograms or rotary buffer swirls. I only point this out because there are a lot of D.O. online detailers and they like to dissect everything a person types to the 9th degree so sometimes you have to be very specific in how you test for your results as well as your specific goals and method of attaining them. Well... maybe not you but someone that types about this usually does. (That would be me :D )

Besides all that keep in mind that paints are different. Yup.. hard to believe but it's true. Some paints are very polishable, that means it's easy to remove defects out of them and they polish up so nice and easy.


On the other hand, some paints are not as polishable or workable, for paints like these... first you won't know it till you actually start doing some testing. Second, if you are working on a paint that is difficult to achieve a flawless finish on then it may not be about you, your choice of pads, chemicals or tools. It's about the paint.


I'm not one that's big on chemically stripping but do believe to check my results by doing a Test Spot on everything I buff. If I can verify my results with my test spot I know I can duplicate the process I used for the test spot over the rest of the car and get the same results assuming the entire car has the same type of paint. That's not always the case. Last time I buffed the Joker Truck it had HOK on the front and whatever the body shop down the road from the Fab shop was spraying for clear on the bed.


There's more in my reply but it includes MOL pictures and I'm trying to get out to the garage to work on the Starline Deville project (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/21147-1967-starline-deville-extreme-makeover.html). Pushing away from the keyboard and moving onto the rotary buffer. :props:


One thing for sure Dana, after reading some of your write-ups and the work you've done, anyone who has a chance to work with you and learn the art of using a rotary buffer should definitely take you up on the opportunity.

:)

[cobraa]

Okay, Now I have naother question. After my polishing is done, Should I spray a mix of water and alcohol to clean my paint or should I use a pre-wax cleaner?

Also, I own PB BLACKHOLE( glaze with filling for black-colored cars). For some people, it seem like Blackhole can give a bit more depth and gloss to your paint. Should I use this or stick with WG FG? ( I was thinking like WG TSR3.0 white pad, WG FG3.0 black pad and PB Blue pad + sealant + wax)