actual benefit to using pure yellow or white carnauba wax with no other wax?

[TurboToys]

many high end waxes are made with nothing but carnauba, and a lot of lower end products have smaller amounts of carnauba, but have bees wax, paraffin wax, and other types of waxes.

in side by side comparisons, what is the best formulation for protection? what is the best formulation for gloss and looks? and what properties to the other waxes have that would make you want to stay away from them?

[ScottB]

this has been an age old question. Just like is more carnauba better or not. Unfortunately it seems that many other ingredients like sunscreen, polymers and such actually offer the best benefits within a wax. I will note from past information that beeswax seems to have no benefit in car wax other than for beading purposes.

And even in those waxes suggesting they are 100% carnauba are in fact not, and other ingredients are included to make it usable and spreadable. Dodo offers a sample canister of nuba wax and its impossible to use. More like a paperweight !

[TurboToys]

this has been an age old question. Just like is more carnauba better or not. Unfortunately it seems that many other ingredients like sunscreen, polymers and such actually offer the best benefits within a wax. I will note from past information that beeswax seems to have no benefit in car wax other than for beading purposes.

And even in those waxes suggesting they are 100% carnauba are in fact not, and other ingredients are included to make it usable and spreadable. Dodo offers a sample canister of nuba wax and its impossible to use. More like a paperweight !


of course, if you have 100% carnauba in the container (100% by volume) its going to be flaky, crusty, and basically solid. but you add things to ,make it more spreadable, like softer waxes (if you want to add a different wax), different oils, like banana oil, or pine oil and turpentine. thats possibly the oldest sort of wax formula that has been used on cars.

nowadays a lot of bottles will say 100% carnauba, but the reality is that it has 5% by volume carnauba.. but the carnauba in there is 100% brazilian yellow carnauba wax.

is there any data available where people have made a car wax strictly with one wax, applied it to each area with the same percentage of wax in the formula, and taken note of the effects of each panel?

and do bees wax, paraffin wax and the other common waxes used in automotive offer the same UV protection?

ive noted from reading some opinions that bees wax may last longer than carnauba wax, but its all heresay unless somebody has done multiple tests to determine which offers the best beading, the best durability, and the best shine. :hungry:



thanks for the response, i just hope to find out why, using just carnauba is more beneficial than using a combination of other waxes or "fillers" as some describe them

[ScottB]

I have been told numerous times by people within the industry that no wax or sealant offers UV protection on its own. It is added like a sunscreen.

My opposing thought has always been the plant from which carnauba is derived. It doesnt burn up, its leaves dont melt. So it must by design in some function protect the plant.

Then moving to carnauba used on fresh paint ... some suggest it a no-no since it wont breath. Well again, looking to the carnauba specifically it should be able to breath because as we know plants/tree's often take/release oxygen thru their leaves. They take in water thru the root system. When rain is released the carnauba often acts as a barrier to push water off the leaves to the root system and thus temporarily creates a water proof barrier.

Now sealants then by design seem to interlock or "seal" the paint. As such wouldnt they be more harmful to fresh paint since they may not breath or allow outgasing as effective closed and locked together.

I am no scientist but would love a true explanation of the benefits of a more naturally derived wax from a man made synthetic wax or paint protectant. We often think synthetics are better (likely due to the oil industry and their consistent marketing of synthetics as lasting longer) but is it true in car protection ?? While a sealant might last longer (and thus considered more durable) is it infact still protecting or any better than paint with a layer of 'nuba now worn off. (ie. is the UV protection in clearcoat now doing the work or has been all along). All I can note is any layer of protect, wax or sealant, is so small is benefits must way more towards final look than long term sun protection.

I now this is slightly of base on original question, but I hope this thread can answer multiple question on "wax" in general. I await comments from TOGWT and Anthony as well as our own Mike Phillips.

[TurboToys]

bump for mikes knowledge on carnaubas and other waxes ?

[sullysdetailing]

I was watching a Show on speed about this detailer in the UK that charges 5000pounds to detail a car and he has 2 containers of pure carnauba wax that cost 6000pounds. Now thats pretty crazy. Heres the video.
World’s Most Expensive Car Wash (http://www.xenvideo.com/2006/10/01/worlds-most-expensive-car-wash/)

[TurboToys]

I was watching a Show on speed about this detailer in the UK that charges 5000pounds to detail a car and he has 2 containers of pure carnauba wax that cost 6000pounds. Now thats pretty crazy. Heres the video.
World’s Most Expensive Car Wash (http://www.xenvideo.com/2006/10/01/worlds-most-expensive-car-wash/)

its "pure" carnauba wax alright, its the same carnauba in any other high end wax, and that 6000 dollar wax contains around 60% by volume, the same amount as midnight sun and some other high end waxes.

this doesnt do much for the sake of the paint though, zymol waxes contain a myriad of different natural oils, some made by bees, coconut oil, banana oil, and a bunch of different oils.


that wax they have there is basically an overpriced, overhyped wax.

the guy is selling names and an image to people who have high class cars cleaned, if your talkin about the one where he cleans a maserati mc12.... then he is a good detailer, but he charges a lot because his customers are rich, and he knows how to sell it. he will measure how much clearcoat is left on the vehicle, and he also will come to them at any time of the day to clean their car, as well as clean off bird poop for them if they happen to get bombed while driving around.... the products he uses are just as good as the others on this forum.

and to be clear he doesnt do all of his cars for 5000 and doesnt use that 6000 pound wax for every high end detail, he has his own line of swissvax... paul dalton crystal rocks. and he also sells insurance to high end car owners through his website.

but i couldnt take a brand of wax seriously that will sell car specific waxes (nsx, volvo etc)




i really dont care about hyped up waxes, i care more for the technical aspect of what the wax is doing for the paint, and how well its shining or how well its protecting. that guy isn't really my cup of tea lol.

[Mike Phillips]

bump for mikes knowledge on carnaubas and other waxes ?


It's late where I'm at and it's been a long day... I'll be back into the office tomorrow afternoon and start getting caught-up on the forum as well as other normal job related duties.

The nutshell answer to your question is this,

Sometimes in order to find a wax or paint sealant that you really like, you need to do some research, (like you're doing now), and then purchase a few products and use them and decide for yourself which products work best for you and your application.

Beauty is in the eye of the holder


On a same forum, I've seen people post,

I love blank wax

and

I hate blank wax


The wax was the same wax, the cars were the same type of cars, the differences was in the perception.

:)

[TurboToys]

seems reasonable. i guess it could be considered that way.

has anyone ever done a test involving each wax, mixed into a car wax in the same proportions, but on its own, then done sectioned off pieces of the same panel, and monitored them for shine, durability, and protection?

if not i may go and see about mixing up some samples of each to run some tests to see which actually offers the best of each world.

[Mike Phillips]

has anyone ever done a test involving each wax,




I don't know about the specific type of wax you're referring to but "Wax Testing" is as old as discussion forums and often times, no make that most of the time, leads to "Wax Wars".

At some level, isn't it easier to just try a few waxes and see which one you like?

(Unless you want to go into the wax or paint sealant business)


See my signature line...

:)

[TurboToys]

I don't know about the specific type of wax you're referring to but "Wax Testing" is as old as discussion forums and often times, no make that most of the time, leads to "Wax Wars".

At some level, isn't it easier to just try a few waxes and see which one you like?

(Unless you want to go into the wax or paint sealant business)


See my signature line...

:)


i do believe in your signature line of "find something you like, and use it often". but this is more about what other people can tell a difference in if your selling a detailing service and offering a specific kind of wax. there is a reason for why turtle wax sells 10oz of wax for 10 dollars, and zymol sells 4oz of wax for 50 dollars.

even if its about what looks best, theres a reason why more people prefer the shine that pinnacle offers, as opposed to meguiars, just searching for the reason why more people prefer it so i can make a more educated choice to offer the absolute best to the people i do the work for. and for myself.

some waxes have more chemicals than they do natural oils to aid in spreadability, and some waxes feel like your trying to spread molasses on. in the end a good formula with certain kinds of waxes is preferred by more people, and it tends to be formulas that contain more carnauba, but there are other options. the other options may not be as shiny, but may offer better protection, so mixing more than 1 wax could give a good shine and good protection, as opposed to the extremes of each spectrum like amazing protection, but mediocre shine. or 10 foot deep gloss with 1 week of durability.

do you know of any wax specific products? ie, ones made purely of other types of wax instead of carnauba?

[Mike Phillips]

do you know of any wax specific products? ie, ones made purely of other types of wax instead of carnauba?


Not really, most products that fall into the "Protection Category" are either,

All synthetic
All natural
A blend of natural and synthetic


I like to use a shoe analogy that goes like this,

Shoes are to women as car wax is to guys

Sometimes a women will go out and buy a pair of shoes just to wear them to a special event; maybe afterwards she'll never need to wear them again, or want to wear them again and sometimes they'll become her favorite pair of shoes, but she'll never know until she buys the pair of shoes.


:)

[Dibbuz]

I believe there is no such thing as white carnauba? I read somewhere it's nothing but yellow carnauba but then bleeched?

[TurboToys]

I believe there is no such thing as white carnauba? I read somewhere it's nothing but yellow carnauba but then bleeched?

white carnauba is more refined yellow carnauba, all of the impurities and color are processed out of it, i doubt this is done through bleaching, but im not sure how they do it. but having a whiter/clearer wax gives a brighter shine because you arent looking through a very slight yellow haze

[ScottB]

I have heard their are two ways to further refine #1 grade yellow brazillian nuba into the white version. Bleaching is one and cheaper method, the other is used in waxes like Pinnacle Souveran Paste. It is basically removing additional impurities to make the best possible ingredient.