Abralon pads and PC

[discoverypro]

Can the Abralon pads be used with the PC 7424 on say speed 4-5 and use the 6inch pad?

My boat is taking forever trying to get it ready and my old hand is tired from doing it by hand.

Let me know

[Mister B]

I’m not sure. I have never tried it myself, but I do know that the DA sanders that are used for wet sanding have a smaller throw or stroke if you will than the PC does which helps in creating that fine uniform finish that you want when you later go to polish out the sanding marks. Also the larger throw of the PC could possibly introduce pigtails into the finish, which would be harder to remove when you get to polishing out your sanding marks later on.

Hopefully someone that has more machine wet sanding experience can give you a better answer. Myself, I’m not sure I would use the PC for wet sanding though.

[discoverypro]

I wish Mike would reply now. I need his expertise in this. Mike if ya here me--holler out.

Thanks bud

[Kevin Brown]

You can use it for wetsanding with caution, as electricity and water can be hazardous... "ZAP!!!"

You'll want to use an appropriate backing, one that supports the disc all the way to the edge (or very close to the edge).

As for stroke size, there is a lot of misconception about the need for a short stroke. In fact, the larger stroke machines can work very well, and can even deliver a better finish, with less pigtailing! There is not a lot of documentation to support this, so you'll have to either take this at face value and try it yourself. Plus, most online information and manufacturers lead us to believe small stroke machines are the best choice for fine sanding. Not so in my opinion.

Here is a diagram I have almost finished that discusses a bit about short and long stroke machines:

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp334/iamwaxman/longblock.jpg

When using Abralon, periodically check to see that the disc has not shifted or stretched.
If this occurs, you will see little wrinkles in the cloth that the abrasive grains attach to.
There is a high probability that you will see pigtailing from this.

[discoverypro]

So will any 6" random orbital sander do? Do i need a pneumatic sander? This boat is starting to give me grief. I worked for over 12 hours and got half of it done(heavily oxidized)--but in the mean time i also expended my arms to the limit of exhaustion. I need to work smarter not harder. Also trying to buff out Meguiars #4 with a PC will not work--it looks ok but up close in the halogen lights MIKE was right--I need a rotary Buffer to get out the swirl marks--the #4 was meant for a rotary buffer --i just didnt have one at the time..buying one today though. $$ not an issue here--just want my boat to look showroom new.

[discoverypro]

Think your right about the ZAP issue--i am looking at buying a 6" pneumatic sander which will be much better than getting one of those Zaps..ordered some abralon pads and they will be here tomorrow.

Well back to work and you guys enjoy your day

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Kevin,

Cool to see you on the forum! :xyxthumbs:



You can use it for wet-sanding with caution, as electricity and water can be hazardous... "ZAP!!!"


It's not recommended by any of the manufactures for these types of corded, electrical DA Sanders so it would be irresponsible for a company or a representative of a company, (such as myself), to recommend using an electrical tool in an unsafe manner that's not aligned with the manufactures recommendations.

So on this forum we're never going to have any kind of official or un-official recommendation to use an electrical DA Polisher to use for machine wet-sanding.

It could be done, but we certainly don't want any liability for anything that could go wrong. Horizontal panels probably wouldn't be to dangerous, but when you shift to the vertical panels you'll have water splatter more likely to spray onto the machine. I know a guy that machine sanded a 1954 DeSoto using a PC and it came out pretty nice but it probably wasn't the smartest or the safest thing to do.


Now you could use one to dry sand but if do this then be sure to wear the appropriate dust mask to you don't breathe in any potentially dangerous paint dust into your lungs. I know guys that like to machine sand dry and that's their preference and it's a lot less messy as machine sanding wet is pretty messy, but, the material your sanding off is embodied on water and runs onto the floor instead of becoming air-born where it gets all over your clothes, your skin and without protection you'll breathe it into your lungs. So just a word of caution.

Of course, the stroke or orbit on a Porter Cable DA Polisher is 5/16 and historically this has been said to be too large for machine sanding. I'm confident if any one can make the case that it's safe and even better then Kevin would be the guy.


:)

[Harleyguy]

Funny that this was posted today when we spent some time on Sunday discussing this very thing .

[Mike Phillips]

Funny that this was posted today when we spent some time on Sunday discussing this very thing .

What's even funnier, or even stranger is I've got pictures of that DeSoto somewhere... :laughing:

AeroCleanse brought up the same type of question in this thread,

Pictures & Comments from October 4th, 2009 Sunday Detailing 102 - Advanced Class (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-saturday-detailing-101/21005-pictures-comments-october-4th-2009-sunday-detailing-102-advanced-class.html)

:)

[discoverypro]

Well I am glad to know i wasn't the only that had thought of this. BUT and I do mean BUT to be on the safe side - I went ahead and purchased a 6" DA pneumatic sander and ordered some Abralon pads (12) of them for like $38 on ebay. I went to my local shop that supplies the detailing and autobody stores here and a box of 3m 1000 grit was over $100 :bolt:. That was Crazy !!! Anyways I will be off on Wednesday to get back to my boat and will post photos once i am done.

Thanks Mike for the input as your thoughts and ideas here are much appreciated !!

[discoverypro]

Well I actually tried both ways and I like using the Porter cable --and yes i am willing to use the "zap" factor. I am using a spray bottle so i am not slinging water everywhere an because my air compressor is not that big i am having to wait on it to fill all the time after working just a small area.

Also with that being said i am getting more orbital rotation from the PC and the finish is much easier to work with using the PC.

Thank goodness the 6" pneumatic didnt cost me very much as i am sure i will use it someday in another application.

But for Now, I would have to say that the PC is much more superior to the pneumatic sander if you risk using it with a water bottle instead of soaking the pads in water.

Just my .02cents worth as I can only tell you by experience.

[Mike Phillips]

because my air compressor is not that big i am having to wait on it to fill all the time after working just a small area.


This is why the thing you're plugging into the wall is working better than your air compressor.


Air powered DA Sanders require a large air compressor in order to supply them with enough air volume and air pressure in order to work properly. You can't use the common portable air compressors most people have in their garage that are mounted on wheels and can be moved around.

This is why the Porter Cable ELECTRIC DA Sander from the wood industry has become so popular over the last 15 to 20 years and that's because while the tool, (air powered DA sander), and the foam pads have been around a lot longer, most people don't have an air compressor that is powerful enough to power these tool well enough to polish out a fender, let alone an entire car.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

What's even funnier, or even stranger is I've got pictures of that DeSoto somewhere... :laughing:



Just a follow-up...

Here's a pictures of the Desoto that was completely damp-sanded using only Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers and the Abralon Sanding Discs.



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/1951Desoto001.jpg

[discoverypro]

Yep-

I even repaired Gel-coat in certain areas of my boat with a Clear Metal flake Gel-coat from US composites and used a 0.25 large Polyflake to repair certain areas of my boat like deep scratches and gouges.

Then using a PC i sanded out most of it with 180's and 360's and finished up with no more than 1200 grit paper.

Followed that with 3m Super duty compound, #83 DA cleaner/polisher, Then a #3 machine pro glaze and Finally collinite #845 to finish.

Take a look at some before and after-- this is with one coat of mixed gel-coat with polyflake and three coats of clear gel coat on top of that. then finished it off with my earlier statement

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/discoverypro/SANY1444.jpg http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/discoverypro/SANY1432.jpg

and now what it looks like today.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/discoverypro/SANY1487.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/discoverypro/SANY1486.jpg

and look at the shine now !!!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/discoverypro/SANY1480.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/discoverypro/SANY1484.jpg