Rat Rodz - Flat Black Paint

[JohnHenry]

Any advice here on protecting flat rat rod/rat bike paint?

Some are single stage and become oxidized easily. Some are flat clear coated. Either way, I want to protect the paint but preserve the desired flat look without producing a shine.

I'm guessing that an AIO, applied by hand, would be a good choice.

Mike, you California guys learn this stuff in seventh grade, right?

Opinions?

[Mike Phillips]

Any advice here on protecting flat rat rod/rat bike paint?

Some are single stage and become oxidized easily. Some are flat clear coated. Either way, I want to protect the paint but preserve the desired flat look without producing a shine.

I'm guessing that an AIO, applied by hand, would be a good choice.

Mike, you California guys learn this stuff in seventh grade, right?

Opinions?

Great question and as big fan of Rat Rods,

I feel you paint... er I mean pain :)


As far as I know there is nothing on the market designed specifically for maintaining flat black paint.


I've rubbed out quite of few 60's and 70's era muscle cars with flat black paint on the hoods and had good luck with products intended for rubber and vinyl but usually when I post this kind of information it opens a can of worms because most people don't read closely what I write.

It has to do with,

If there's nothing available, and the paint looks horrible, you have two options,

Do nothing
Do something even if it's not the 100% absolute correct product for the surface

I usually opt for 2 because you can't buff the paint out and create great looking finish and give the car back to the customer with a horrible looking finish.

See this thread on MOL and give my replies a good read-through...

What Do You Do With A Flat Black Hood? - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36606)


It could be there's something new on the market I don't know about and maybe someone else will share it with us?

Don't use any kind of cleaner/wax or in other words, AIO on it as it will tend to make the paint chalking and it will be hard to undo the chalking look.

My good friend Joe aka recommended M135 in the above thread, you might also consider doing a TEST SPOT and see how it looks.

And to be honest, rubbing out a hood is one thing, rubbing out an entire car like this with flat paint, (Sikkens Epoxy Primer), is another thing,

This picture was taken the day after I installed and fired up a 462 BBC into it.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2BadCad7.jpg

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2BadCad6.jpg


I don't thinking I would try it myself. To much real-estate that might end up splotchy looking.

I could sure use a product for this type of application because were seeing more and more flat paint technology coming out.

Anyone?

:)

[BlackSunshine01]

i belive its du pont that has come out with a single stage system that keeps the flat look with some clear in it. it keeps the flat/satin look because the clear dries matte. i beliv ethe color is called hot rod black.

[DLB]

There's this thread:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/bike-depot/15192-detailing-harley-flat-paint.html

that says Harley recommends using a good ammonia free glass cleaner, but you might want to substantiate that with a test spot.

Other than that, the most protection you might be able to get is a mild Wash-N-Wax product that protects (minimally) as you wash? But again, I'd test spot it.

DLB

[JohnHenry]

Thanks for the help, guys!

I'm getting more than a few of these flat finish rods, so I'll keep searching/experimenting for a product that protects without becoming chalky. Cleaning doesn't seem to be a problem. It's the LSP that gets tricky.

I'm going through my limited number of polymer sealants now, looking for the right stuff.

[Mike Phillips]

There's this thread:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/bike-depot/15192-detailing-harley-flat-paint.html

that says Harley recommends using a good ammonia free glass cleaner, but you might want to substantiate that with a test spot.



Glass cleaner will clean, but what you're looking for is something that will restore and bring out the richness of the color without creating a hard shine like normal paint. The product also can't turn white or opaque.

The Meguiar's Gold Class Trim Detailer meets all these criteria, but it isn't a wipe-on, wipe-off product, it's a wipe-on, work-in like skin lotion and then carefully wipe-off till you create a uniform, non-splotchy look. This does require a little effort and good technique when wiping the residue off the surface.

I'm trying to find a muscle car to bring down here to the AG Garage just for this kind of demo. Last night at Publix, a grocery store here in Florida, I saw what looked like a 1970 Yellow Cuda with a flat black hood like this,

http://jaxbeachdragon.com/xmas/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/scale-1-64-70-cuda-yellow-black.jpg

I tried to get over to him before he left the parking lot but he was too quick, even if I could have gotten to him it's so hard to get guys that own cool cars let you "touch" them if they don't know you. So anyone here in the Florida area with someone with a flat black hood, please do me a favor and open the door for me.


Thanks for the help, guys!

I'm getting more than a few of these flat finish rods, so I'll keep searching/experimenting for a product that protects without becoming chalky. Cleaning doesn't seem to be a problem. It's the LSP that gets tricky.

I'm going through my limited number of polymer sealants now, looking for the right stuff.

You want to avoid anything that dries, even if it dries clear. You want to stick with something that's going to be more like a lotion or gel for rubber or plastic.

Been there, done that a whole bunch of times...

:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's the problem, look at the hood on this Barracuda, it's flat black and it's dull and lifeless looking... chances are the owner just doesn't know what to put on it so he puts nothing on it....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/1970PLYMOUTHBARRACUDA.jpg



The problem is, with more and more time that goes by, the hood/paint won't get better and better looking.... what's the opposite of better and better looking?


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/1970PLYMOUTHBARRACUDAc.jpg

[JohnHenry]

Glass cleaner will clean, but what you're looking for is something that will restore and bring out the richness of the color without creating a hard shine like normal paint. The product also can't turn white or opaque.

Exactly! :xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

Exactly! :xyxthumbs:


Until I find something better, this is what I use,

Gold Class Trim Detailer (http://www.autogeek.net/megocltrde.html)

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/autogeek_2066_112919895


I'm always looking for a muscle car with flat black paint anywhere here in Florida to do a write-up on how to polish flat black paint.

If anyone knows of car with flat black paint and the paint looks dull and lifeless, and the owner has no clue as to how to restore and maintain a rich, satin look, then please contact me I will do the polishing work at no charge if I can use the pictures on this forum.

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net (Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.ent)


Thank you!


:dblthumb2:

[agpatel]

Matte colors just have a flatting agent in the clear, like a fine powder, the matte is created by pits in the clear which do no reflect light so you want something that does not fill the pits in the clear thus does not reflect light. Opti-Seal is a good product as it will not fill or change the reflective properties of the matte color.

Mike: I didnt know you could polish matte colors as when you polish you would smooth out the pits and valleys that create the matte look. I thought polishing would flatten the surface of the paint and thus creating a gloss?

[Mike Phillips]

Matte colors just have a flatting agent in the clear, like a fine powder, the matte is created by pits in the clear which do no reflect light so you want something that does not fill the pits in the clear thus does not reflect light. Opti-Seal is a good product as it will not fill or change the reflective properties of the matte color.


Well we need someone with a flat black hood to apply the Opti-Seal and then document what happens with a write-up with pictures so others will have the confidence to follow in their footsteps.

Any takers?




Mike: I didn't know you could polish matte colors as when you polish you would smooth out the pits and valleys that create the matte look. I thought polishing would flatten the surface of the paint and thus creating a gloss?


Can you show me were I said to abrade the paint to smooth it out?

Here's were we run into problems with the word polish again because most people think it means to use something with abrasives to abrade the surface and that just isn't so.

I never meant to actively abrade the surface to level it or change it's construction, I merely meant to apply a creamy, non-abrasive product like you would skin lotion to dry skin. I've never posted or recommended to physically abrade flat paint.

When you apply a product like Gold Class Trim Detailer to flat black paint, first there's nothing abrasive in the product that would abrade, remove or level the surface of flat black paint. Second, all it's doing is soaking in and making the flat black paint look good. Isn't that the goal?

Don't make things more complicated than they have to be. What you're trying to do is make flat black paint look rich and dark, not dull and lifeless, which is how it looks over time on most flat black paints because nobody knows what to put on it.

Again, I've posted this many times, there is not product on the market SPECIFICALLY for flat black paint so you have to think outside the box, you have to look for alternatives that will make the paint look better without harming it in any way.

I'm completely open to suggestions for product someone can demonstrate on flat black paint that works.

Again, any takers? With pictures? :dunno:

I've posted what's worked for me in the past. Anyone care to post what's worked for them?

:)

[agpatel]

Sorry for the confusion there Mike; the word Polish comes up and my mind goes right to leveling, :( . Opti-Seal does not create a shine, but does darken it a bit. I wish I had some pics left after doing a friends car one day. I will see if I cant have him take some pics.

Heck if you cant find anyone that has a matte car, get yourself some sheet metal and paint it matte black :) .

[Jossy92]

The Dialog between two experienced pros sure helped this newbie learn about flat paint and what a polish is.
Thank you.

[Should also thank the Mod. for creating the civil environment which allows for polite discussion where opinions differ]

[agpatel]

I hope you are not talking about me Jossy92, haha, I am no pro at all. Just happen to learn alot from here and my dad works for a automotive adhesive and paint company so I have learned alot about types of paint and what not from him.

[Jossy92]

You helped me. :) Good questions or comments help bring out interesting dialog. :dblthumb2: