Pulling My Hair Out!!!

[PDC]

Relatively experienced weekend detailer. Decent paint correction experience. Good tools, good products. Correcting black old-school base/clear on my weekend only garage queen. Used Flex 3401 with Orange Light Cut LC pad and Wolfgang’s Uber Compound followed by Rupes 15mm, White Rupes Pad and WG Total Swirl Remover. Using 260 Lumen Headlamp with 600 Lumen overhead LED garage lighting. Head on with the lamps, the paint looks like its still wet. Flawless. Back out into late day, low angle sunlight and there are lines EVERYWHERE!!! Point the LED lamp at them and they literally disappear. I need this paint to look PERFECT! I am wide open to suggestions as to lighting, pad, and product.

PS - I have corrected several black MB cars in my fleet over the years and they have all passed that late day, low angel, natural sunlight test. I’m wondering if this isn’t a traditional base/clear finish issue as opposed to the harder Ceramic finishes that I have become accustomed to correcting? Maybe some Old-School 3M Baby-Blue Ultra-Fina on a 3M Baby Blue Waffle Pad for the final buff-out???

Thank you all.

[dgage]

Some have said that the Flex forced rotation polishers can’t finish perfectly on some paints. I haven’t used the WG TSR but I’d try a very fine polish with the Rupes white pad. Maybe the Rupes Pure, CarPro Essence, Menzenra 3800, or similar. If that doesn’t work then you might need to use a non-forced D/A.

[Bruno Soares]

Maybe you have soft paint and need a finer polish like mentioned above. TSR can finish well on harder paint but a soft one could use something finer. Wolfgang Finishing Glaze if you want to stay in that family of products. I’m a fan of CarPro Essence.

[PDC]

I totally get what you are saying - and it makes complete sense. My only thought is that the current ‘final buff’ was completed with the Rupes 15, which is not a forced rotation machine. That with the softest white Rupes pad and Wolfgang’s mildest ‘swirl remover’ product - and that left several sections of SUPER light straight lines - perhaps from color sanding??? Again, these straight lines literally vanish in direct, bright white LED lighting. I’m wondering if I need either a touch firmer pad or a touch more aggressive product for final actual ‘correction’ as opposed to simply adding gloss?

This is my first correction of a recent ‘re-paint’ that came out of color sanding and rotary compounding. All my previous experience is in correcting a factory finish.

[Bruno Soares]

See if the lines are in the direction you’re wiping with the towel. Maybe the paint is soft enough your marring it while removing the polish. I remember TSR gets a bit sticky on soft paint.

[dgage]

Forced rotation or the Rupes DA (missed the Rupes, thanks for pointing it out again), neither will leave straight lines so that is likely sanding that didn’t get corrected. You’ll either need to get more aggressive with the Flex but I’d recommend taking a paint thickness meter to see how thick your paint is. I’d hate for you to go chasing some deep scratches that only becomes worse because you go through the clearcoat. If this is a recent respray, you could also TRY to take it back to the painter.

[opie]

Agree with dgage.
Any way to get pics?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[PDC]

I will do my best to get representative pics later today. Car is black. On closer inspection, the correction on all metal surfaces - hood, roof, doors, fenders, quarters, trunk - looks as good as I could ever want. These lines that hide depending on the lighting really only appear on the plastic parts - spoilers, air dam, trunk spoiler. It may be that these softer pieces showed more of the sanding marks and compounding marks. I agree, it pays not to be too aggressive with the clear coat layer - especially on what I have now determined to be pretty limited areas of the car and,depending on the light, are really hard to catch. I’m going to gently touch those areas with Rupes Yellow pad and matching Fine Keramik and then finish up with the white pad and Rupes Diamond (I’ve still got some of each on the shelf - wish they had not discontinued that line).

[Desertnate]

Just a thought in a totally different direction.

I've found many times that direct, bright, white, LED lighting does not show swirls and defects as well as low-angle, yellower, incandescent lighting.

With the bright overhead lighting, or even bright lights on a stand pointed directly at a surface, I find it washes out an defects and makes everything look great.

It isn't until I turn off the overhead LED lighting and put my work light stand at a very shallow angle to the surface I'm polishing do I see the "true" condition of the paint and all the swirls really appear.

[PDC]

Just a thought in a totally different direction.

I've found many times that direct, bright, white, LED lighting does not show swirls and defects as well as low-angle, yellower, incandescent lighting.

With the bright overhead lighting, or even bright lights on a stand pointed directly at a surface, I find it washes out an defects and makes everything look great.

It isn't until I turn off the overhead LED lighting and put my work light stand at a very shallow angle to the surface I'm polishing do I see the "true" condition of the paint and all the swirls really appear.


100% - I’m beginning to see the advantage of investing in one of those dedicated paint inspection lights like a Scangrip.

[Desertnate]

You don't even have to go as expensive as the ScanGrip or Griots Garage rigs.

I found an slightly un-traditional LED work-light set-up on the South American river sight which works great. Before that, I had an inexpensive, basic halogen work light rig that worked really well too...until it caught fire one day.

The only advantage of the LED over the halogen rig is the LED's don't generate nearly as much heat. I think the halogen set actually highlighted swirls more. Heat generation is a mixed bag. In cooler temps hot rigs help heat your garage, but it's miserable of you're working in warmer times of the year.

[Rsurfer]

To the OP, tread lightly when polishing plastics.

[dgage]

To the OP, tread lightly when polishing plastics.

I’m sure Rsurfer understands and has more experience but just for some background, the reasons are two-fold. Plastics need an additive in the paint to be able to flex so the paint isn’t quite as durable/hard/tough. And plastic holds heat and so does foam so make sure your passes aren’t as long as you’d do on metal panels, just so you can let the foam cool down between passes.

[PDC]

I am making some progress! And I am expanding my knowledge base as I go. I have gotten pretty good a correction on modern factory applied scratch resistant clear finishes like you see on BMW and MB cars. Very forgiving. Very difficult to damage. Takes a lot more aggressive pad and product to have any effect at all - and doesn’t require as much ‘finesse’ as softer finishes.

This is an old-school PPG Base/Clear in (of course) Jet Black. Most of the tiny lines I’m seeing under indirect light are from even the softest White Rupes pad and polish (I think their products are geared toward modern scratch resistant finishes). I ended up using the very soft blue Lake County pad - which they say is for glazes and sealants - along with old-school 3M Baby Blue Ultra Fina. It is doing a fantastic job of polishing out ‘most’ of the defects without leaving any haze or marring behind. Oh, and I’m actually using the old reliable Flex 3401, but wayyy down to speed 2/3 range. And with the thick, soft Lake County pad, it is doing a great job.

Finally, I am coming to grips with the fact that as much as I love this car, I did build it to drive it. It is not a ‘show car’ in the true sense of the word. That and very few folks stroll around local cruise nights with their paint inspection LED lights handy. This is a very nice, very well done old-school 2-stage paint job on an old-school hot rod that I’m sure will have all sorts of new rock chips, pock marks, toweling marks, etc by the end of my first cruise season with her.

[Desertnate]

Finally, I am coming to grips with the fact that as much as I love this car, I did build it to drive it. It is not a ‘show car’ in the true sense of the word. That and very few folks stroll around local cruise nights with their paint inspection LED lights handy. This is a very nice, very well done old-school 2-stage paint job on an old-school hot rod that I’m sure will have all sorts of new rock chips, pock marks, toweling marks, etc by the end of my first cruise season with her.

Absolutely! Don't let the car own you. Its beauty comes from it functioning as a car. Drive it a lot and enjoy making memories every time you're behind the wheel.