Gloss vs Glow, are all paints created equal

[chilly]

If all things are equal; e.g., sufficient clear coat thickness, availability of appropriate quality products (pads, abrasives, etc), skill level of the technician, etc, are all paints essentially capable of being brought to that state of "dripping wet gloss" that most folks hunger after, or are there paint/car brands or years or whatever where it's simply not possible to get more than a glow from the paint?

I am not talking about after applying a glaze or other "masking agent"

I am simply saying the last, finest, polishing/jeweling stage is done and the paint is simply bottomless

This is probably a simplistic question with a zillion variables but I am curious

I have read a lot on the subject of gloss including the very long writeup by Waxmode/Loach and it can get overwhelming but my takeaway from all this is the gloss you get following the last polishing step is the BEST you are going to get without resorting to artificial means

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes and to each his/her own but I know others on here feel that glazes and such are a crutch for substandard polishing

Thanks in advance

Michael

[glen e]

There are clearcoats that are harder than others, the harder the clearcoat, the more gloss you get.

this is a two part clearcoat that has amazing gloss. It only has one downside, and that is because it is harder, any scratches in it don’t come out as easily with polish as a standard clearcoat

SprayMax 2K Urethane Clearcoat | AutomotiveTouchup (https://www.automotivetouchup.com/spray-paint/spraymax-2k-clearcoat.aspx)

[FUNX650]

•IMO:
-ClearCoat paints, while having a lot of
similarities, also have their differences.

TO WIT:
-Each OEM has their own in-house “paint
engineers” that work with their counterparts
at each OEMs’ designated paint vendor(s), to
formulate the paints that will be used on their
specific brand of vehicle(s) for each model year.

Once the paint vendors have met the OEMs’
expressed paint standards, it’s like a shroud
of secrecy immediately envelopes those paint
formulations.
(The only paint ‘code-breaker’ is found on the
information sticker/placard—and that info is
not going to tell much other than the right
hue of the paint color for repair purposes.


But back to the heart of your inquiry:

•Except for whatever small percentage that a
given LSP’s attributes contribute to the overall
gloss, shine, glow, deep-ness, wet-ness, et al…

-Polishing, jeweling, and the like, will definitely
bring out the qualities that are inherent to each
paint manufacturers’ CC-paints’ formulations.

:buffing:


Bob

[Rsurfer]

If all things are equal; e.g., sufficient clear coat thickness, availability of appropriate quality products (pads, abrasives, etc), skill level of the technician, etc, are all paints essentially capable of being brought to that state of "dripping wet gloss" that most folks hunger after, or are there paint/car brands or years or whatever where it's simply not possible to get more than a glow from the paint?

I am not talking about after applying a glaze or other "masking agent"

I am simply saying the last, finest, polishing/jeweling stage is done and the paint is simply bottomless

This is probably a simplistic question with a zillion variables but I am curious

I have read a lot on the subject of gloss including the very long writeup by Waxmode/Loach and it can get overwhelming but my takeaway from all this is the gloss you get following the last polishing step is the BEST you are going to get without resorting to artificial means

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes and to each his/her own but I know others on here feel that glazes and such are a crutch for substandard polishing

Thanks in advance

Michael

In some cases, glazes are used to mask fine scratches without removing clear coat. I would not call it substandard because saving clear coat might be the ultimate goal. Say a 10 year old car that's polished twice a year.

As far as the term gloss goes, gloss and shine would be in the same category. Gloss/shine would mean a hard candy look. Like what sealants and coating will give you. Glow is what you get from using waxes. You get that deep wet look. Will show up more on darker colors. Light colors, I don't think you would see much of a difference between a sealant and a wax.

[PaulMys]

In some cases, glazes are used to mask fine scratches without removing clear coat. I would not call it substandard because saving clear coat might be the ultimate goal. Say a 10 year old car that's polished twice a year.

As far as the term gloss goes, gloss and shine would be in the same category. Gloss/shine would mean a hard candy look. Like what sealants and coating will give you. Glow is what you get from using waxes. You get that deep wet look. Will show up more on darker colors. Light colors, I don't think you would see much of a difference between a sealant and a wax.

Also, a metallic paint will not produce those "mirror-like" reflections that a pure (darker) color can.

But what they can do, is mask many more imperfections.

[chilly]

Thanks everyone for the input

I am always trying to learn and further my skills

I only work on my own vehicles so there is a lot that's only theory to me because I only see or read about it on the interwebs

I get the hard vs soft and the pure vs metallic parts of the equation

My wife bought an Amulet Red 2002 Audi TT back in 2004 and that's what got me on the road to detailing vs car washing and vacuuming in the first place

With my limited arsenal of pads and polishes and my trusty PC7424XP I got that car to SHINE

Other than that car I have only owned Toyota products for the last few decades and although I can get Toyota paint feeling as smooth as silk I have never been able to come close to the sheer gloss I got off that Audi

Thanks again and hopefully there are no stupid questions on this forum

Michael

[DUBL0WS6]

I think it depends on the paint formulation. Lexus has a metallic red paint that is almost iridescent. Chrysler has a blue metallic that almost glows.

[chilly]

I have high hopes for my Lexus blue despite the fact it’s metal flake

It seems to have the potential to be stunning

Just gotta take baby steps with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rsurfer]

I have high hopes for my Lexus blue despite the fact it’s metal flake

It seems to have the potential to be stunning

Just gotta take baby steps with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's all in the polishing my friend.:props:

[chilly]

Roger that!!

Mahalo and Aloha

[TTQ B4U]

To answer your question, I think there probably is something to the type of paint system / brands being used but the reality is once they are in-use, the resulting care is going to determine more about the quality of paint condition and that will impact things more noticeably.

Pure darker colors will tend to look richer and deeper. Thicker clear coats and finishes with less orange peel will reflect and glow a bit more. I don't focus on it all too much as in the end customers and even owners themselves will work with what they have and not worry about seeing the differences between a fully corrected vehicle that's a show queen and one that's 80-90% corrected. I don't look at a vehicle through my eyes when discussing with someone what they are looking to achieve, I listen and look through their eyes. I do however show them on my own personal vehicles what can be done from 75-100% correction and they then decide.

Threads like this need pics, so let's kick it off.


My previous Audi. Fully corrected, pure black, awesome depth.

https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/165925812/original.jpg


Same car, reflection off the door. Near zero orange peel, great clarity and thus reflectivity.

https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/166101250/original.jpg


My Metallic Infiniti. Perfect correction but the paint won't appear as dark or deep due to the flake.


https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/169145369/original.jpg


Same Infiniti, very slight orange peel but not as clear as Audi. Reflectivity still super strong.

https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/169201990/original.jpg


20yr old BMW M3. Pure Red Color with Full correction and no orange peel. Haze is simply from the light used and cell phone camera.

https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/170733032/original.jpg

Same BMW, dripping wet even before the Ceramic was applied.

https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/170735664/original.jpg

Flipping over to perhaps some of the worse finished paint on any manufacturer I've seen, and I have done many of these, Tesla. Loads of orange peel, meh quality overall, but one can still make it reflect and bend light quite well. It just won't have that deep black perfect look as others when viewed up close.

https://pbase.com/timothylauro/image/170999761/original.jpg

[Desertnate]

The comment on the hardness vs. softness is a great point. The Japanese cars in my family (Honda, Toyota) don't ever seem to get the same gloss I get out of my BMW, no matter how much time I spend polishing them.

I think the application of the paint has a lot to do with it too. My BMW has quite a bit of orange peel in the paint, but when I worked on a neighbors Porsche Cayenne the paint was flawless and the results of polishing were amazing.

Some of the paints also have tinted clear coats or other mult-layer applications which make for amazing results. Mazda's Soul Red, I think the dark red on the C7 Vette, and Alfa Romeo's Rosso Competizione are examples which come to mind. I seem to remember both GM and Ford having other "tint coats" but I don't remember the color or the names.

[chilly]

This is the etching on the hood. Sorry for the crappy pic. The phone always wants to focus on what’s in the reflection which is fine for a glory shot but sucks when you are trying to focus on the defects.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/8f17307d236a82fede9d9def4a8af413.jpg



Here’s a closer shot. The etching almost looked like frost crystals.

Again, sorry for the crappy pic. Phone is smarter than I am

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/c520273fc7e96586606e5a5207d2d2d0.jpeg


This is after correcting and shooting back up at the same lightning.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/81ea37255b5ec25188a4ba8587d23178.jpg

IDK


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chilly]

I went down to Sonax Perfect Finish and a RUPES Yellow foam pad and ran out of time so I threw on a coat of Megs HCW to protect it until I could get back to it. It gets so windy up on my hill that I can only work on paint during the early morning hours so any job like this is a MULTI day affair. Hawaiian red dirt is not your friend, trust me.

[Rsurfer]

This is the etching on the hood. Sorry for the crappy pic. The phone always wants to focus on what’s in the reflection which is fine for a glory shot but sucks when you are trying to focus on the defects.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/8f17307d236a82fede9d9def4a8af413.jpg



Here’s a closer shot. The etching almost looked like frost crystals.

Again, sorry for the crappy pic. Phone is smarter than I am

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/c520273fc7e96586606e5a5207d2d2d0.jpeg


This is after correcting and shooting back up at the same lightning.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/81ea37255b5ec25188a4ba8587d23178.jpg

IDK


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome!