amateur paint correction help

[Maff U]

I realize this question has probably asked a lot but I was hoping for some help on my specific situation. I’ve now paint corrected my car twice and done my wife’s once. Overall, I was happy with the results but I think I went too conservative with cutting step, then used too hard of a pad for the polish as both cars still have a decent amount of deeper scratches but also some halo’ing - especially my wife’s black audi. I used griots garage orange pad + meguiars ultimate compound, then sonax green pad + mequiars ultimate polish on a porter cable 7424 DA.

My plan was to go with a Lake Country foamed wool pad + UC but am seeing mixed opinions on whether that’ll work well on a DA. Would a LC microfiber cutting pad be better or something like Griots boss fast correcting white pad? I’d then follow that up with a sonax grey polishing pad + UP.

I’d like to stick with the mequiars ultimate compound and polish as I think they’re probably best for a novice like me. is it just possible that these results are as good as it gets with these products? Below are a couple before/after shots of my wife’s 2015 audi sq5. I think the PO washed the thing with a rake O_O.

73475

73474






TL;DR - what pads do you like best with meguairs UC & UP

[Mike Phillips]

First...

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:

Cool car!






I realize this question has probably asked a lot but I was hoping for some help on my specific situation. I’ve now paint corrected my car twice and done my wife’s once. Overall, I was happy with the results but I think I went too conservative with cutting step, then used too hard of a pad for the polish as both cars still have a decent amount of deeper scratches but also some halo’ing - especially my wife’s black audi.

I used griots garage orange pad + meguiars ultimate compound, then sonax green pad + mequiars ultimate polish on a porter cable 7424 DA.



That's not a bad combo for products and pads.


Questions

1: What size backing plate do you have on the PC?

2: What size pads are you using?

3: Do you see the pad rotating when buffing?



The larger the pad and the thicker the pad the less rotation you'll get out of a Porter Cable dual action polisher.


If the pad is not rotating, that is if it's stalling out - you're not doing anything. In other words you're not removing paint thus you're not leveling the surface thus you're not removing swirls.


Make sense?


:)

[Mike Phillips]

This,

Mark Your Backing Plate - Makes it easy to see Pad Rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/48919-mark-your-backing-plate-makes-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM8PnDooZP8




:)

[Mike Phillips]

Also...

Check this out, see if you're making any of the most common mistakes? If so, I share both the most common mistakes and the remedies.


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)



:)

[Mike Phillips]

My plan was to go with a Lake Country foamed wool pad + UC but am seeing mixed opinions on whether that’ll work well on a DA.



The fibers on these pads are a tick on the long side for good paint correction. They will work but I would choose something else. FIRST I would check out what I wrote above and let's document the backing plate size and pad size.

The PC is a capable swirl remover when used with a 5" backing plate and the right pads.




Would a LC microfiber cutting pad be better or something like Griots boss fast correcting white pad?



Both would be better than the "foamed wool pad" option.

Check out the new UDOS microfiber pad. It's very good.





I’d then follow that up with a sonax grey polishing pad + UP.



That will work.


Also - SONAX does make 5.5" and 6" pads

SONAX Paint Polishing Foam Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/sonax-foam-pads.html)



:)

[Maff U]

thanks for the quick reply!

I'm using a 6" backing plate, 6.3-6.5" pads, speed 5 (max is 6 i believe), 5-6 passes, light pressure, and the pad is definitely spinning quickly. i usually get about halfway done with each step and change pads. i haven't noticed much caking at all.

Just checked out the trouble shooting guide and i'm pretty sure i'm guilty of trying to do too big of a section and moving too quickly. I'll try and reel that in on my next attempt. what would be some telltale signs that i'm using too much product? that may also be an issue i'm having

little annoyed that i just put 15-20 hours into these cars and need to start all over :| . they look 90% better but i wanna go for 99%

[Paul A.]

There isn't a speed less than 6 on my PC when correcting. And light machine pressure to maintain spin

The product and the right pad should do the work for you.

[Mike Phillips]

thanks for the quick reply!

I'm using a 6" backing plate, 6.3-6.5" pads, speed 5 (max is 6 i believe), 5-6 passes, light pressure, and the pad is definitely spinning quickly. i usually get about halfway done with each step and change pads. i haven't noticed much caking at all.

Just checked out the trouble shooting guide and i'm pretty sure i'm guilty of trying to do too big of a section and moving too quickly. I'll try and reel that in on my next attempt. what would be some telltale signs that i'm using too much product? that may also be an issue i'm having

little annoyed that i just put 15-20 hours into these cars and need to start all over :| . they look 90% better but i wanna go for 99%




Yup...

Before I or anyone tried to help solve your problem - the first thing to do was isolate the problem.

6" backing plates and ANY pad that fits a 6" backing plate is TOO FREAKING BIG for this weak and anemic tool. You'll simply be wasting your time.


Read, don't scan - my article here. Note that the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polish is the same type of tool as your Porter Cable only with a lot more power. Too bad Griot's discontinued it.

In this article is more information in a single thread than you can find on this topic of machine polishing with simple 8mm free spinning random orbital polishers than on ANY other social media platform. Yes it has that much info in it. Heck just the portion where I explain the history of microfiber pads is lost among all the gurus and experts in our industry unless - they've read this article.

There are also LINKS to get a 5" backing plate and 5.5" pads.

Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/111332-heres-what-you-need-get-into-machine-polishing-recommendations-beginner-mike-phillips.html)



:)

[2black1s]

thanks for the quick reply!

I'm using a 6" backing plate, 6.3-6.5" pads, speed 5 (max is 6 i believe), 5-6 passes, light pressure, and the pad is definitely spinning quickly. i usually get about halfway done with each step and change pads. i haven't noticed much caking at all.

Just checked out the trouble shooting guide and i'm pretty sure i'm guilty of trying to do too big of a section and moving too quickly. I'll try and reel that in on my next attempt. what would be some telltale signs that i'm using too much product? that may also be an issue i'm having

little annoyed that i just put 15-20 hours into these cars and need to start all over :| . they look 90% better but i wanna go for 99%

I won't even attempt to recommend pads as I don't have near the experience with different pads as Mike or others. But the polishes your are using (Meg's Ultimate), I have used and you should be able to achieve flawless results with them.

Regardless of pad/product, in most cases, it's likely that you can adjust the process (speed, pressure, wetness, etc.) to achieve the desired results with whatever pad/product is used (within reason).

As for your question relative to too much product... I don't see that as a concern other than a little extra clean-up effort. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that "too much" is better than "too little" with the products you are using. Error in that direction if you are unsure.

[Maff U]

Thanks Mike. Lots of good info there.

i'll plan to grab a 5" backing pad and some 5-5.5" pads for the correcting step. given the fact that my porter cable is a little weakling, do you recommend running it at it's highest speed then? what sort of pressure should be used ~ 15lbs?

i wasn't aware of the fact that a soaked pad becomes less effective. would you advise against loading up the pad prior to first use then and just starting out on your first panel with 3 pea sized dots of compound and a dry pad?

[Maff U]

never mind! - watching the video now and you've answered those questions. looking forward to testing this out in a couple weeks

[2black1s]

Thanks Mike. Lots of good info there.

i'll plan to grab a 5" backing pad and some 5-5.5" pads for the correcting step. given the fact that my porter cable is a little weakling, do you recommend running it at it's highest speed then? what sort of pressure should be used ~ 15lbs?

i wasn't aware of the fact that a soaked pad becomes less effective. would you advise against loading up the pad prior to first use then and just starting out on your first panel with 3 pea sized dots of compound and a dry pad?

Not Mike but here's my input...

Pressure and Speed:

- Set the speed to whatever level is necessary to maintain pad rotation. That speed setting may vary depending on the configuration of the panel you are working on and the pressure you are applying. An example of that could be when working in contours you will typically need a higher speed setting than on a flat panel, although you might also need higher speed settings even on a flat panel if you're applying significant pressure.

- Pressure required is dependent on what you are trying to achieve and what point of the process you are performing. When initially attacking severe defects more pressure is required. For final finishing very little pressure is needed. You should always be finishing with very little to no pressure at all.

Pad Priming:

There are many schools of thought on this topic. Personally, I like to "lightly" prime the pad with whatever product I'm using.

If you're working on a large flat panel you can skip the priming and simply use enough product... The pad will prime itself in the first few passes. Three pea-sized drops on a dry pad is not enough. If I was going this route I'd put a full circle of product around the circumference of the pad and a few drops evenly spaced inboard of the circle.

When working on irregular shapes and contours I would always prime the pad first, especially the outer edge, so you are not running a dry edge into the surface you're working on.

[Desertnate]

Agree with all the advise on pads and techniques. Before I upgraded my DA I got great results using 5.5" pads on a 5" backing plate and Lake Country pads. Depending on the type of area I was polishing I switched between their Flat and Thin Pro pads. The Thin Pros corrected better because the polisher would spin faster, but on some contoured surfaces the Flat pads simply worked better. I'd use either their orange or white depending on the level of correction needed.

I would also suggest a different polish and compound. I started with Meg's Ultimates on cars with soft paint, but found they were not up to the task on hard paint similar to your Audi. I also found others provided better results regardless of the hardness of the paint. I'd look at maybe the Griot's BOSS line, Sonax, Blackfire, or Wolfgang brands.

[dpevans]

With my PC I have found a Microfiber cutting pad is a good place to start and I like the D30016, 90% of the time it gets most of the defects out and if I want to get more out I step up to a yellow or orange pad have used 3D cutting, M105 and they both work well. Then I hit the entire car with a white pad and M205. Using the PC 5" is the most you should go and the PC does stall real easy. Also us a pad brush to keep the fibers standing tall and more product is not better. I purchased Mike's book when I started doing weekend detailing and it has everything you need to know, it is well written and very detailed for the beginning detailer.

[oneheadlite]

One thing to throw out too since I haven't seen it mentioned here (thought it's probably in one of Mike's links) - Make sure to do a test spot!

Definitely worth dialing in your approach on a small section then apply it to the rest of the car vs going through all that work only to be let down by the results.

My wife's Phantom Black Q5 definitely needed the more aggressive stuff in my arsenal. I really like the Griot's BOSS creams - super easy to work with. For her car I used the Fast Correcting Cream on microfiber and Orange pads. (all Griot's stuff - I don't know how all the different brand foam colors stack in regards to cutting ability). I chased it with the Perfecting Cream (I'll confess, I did that more on principle than anything - the Fast Correcting Cream actually finished down really well).