Polishing damage?

[Tsquad1024]

I used Meduiar's scratch x 2.0 by hand using a microfiber towel to remove some scratches on my car. Used soap water prior to applying the polish to clean the area. The scratch is gone but ended up with a white cloudy look. See the pic. Is this clear coat damage? I applied Meguiar's ultimate paste wax after polishing but the cloud is still there. Anything I can do? Thank you for the help.

73191

[Mike Phillips]

Hi and welcome to AutogeekOnline!


Hard to see from the picture? Maybe it's just me?

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachments/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/73191d1619531497-polishing-damage-car-jpg



Here's the deal though, you probably didn't damage the clearcoat as ScratchX is very very safe.

The real problem is most people don't possess the skills to work on clearcoats BY HAND. You have to have EVERYTHING working for you. And microfiber is gentle but it's also more aggressive than foam.


I would suggest getting a NEW foam applicator pad. Make sure the area is clean and then re-apply the ScratchX using a foam applicator pad.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a recent artilce I wrote as my attempt to help people understand the difference between a foam surface and a fiber surface.


Foam vs Fiber - Car Detailing by Hand or Machine (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/128316-foam-vs-fiber-car-detailing-hand-machine.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4164/Foam_vs_Fiber_01c.JPG


When working on car paint by hand, the safest application method would be a soft foam applicator pad. If you need more bite or more cleaning or abrading ability to remove swirls, scratches, oxidation and years of neglect, then a soft microfiber applicator pad will provide more abrading ability than foam. The thing is, if you start with a fiber pad, the fibers themselves can leave their own defect, (marring/scratching), but that's the trade-off to get more abrading ability. The good news is, in most cases, you can remove the fiber marring or scratching by re-polishing but switching over to a foam applicator.

Here's the difference,


Foam has a UNIFORM surface texture.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4164/Foam_vs_Fiber_02.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4164/Foam_vs_Fiber_02c.JPG



Fiber pads have a CHAOTIC surface texture. The surface is made-up of thousands of individual fibers. In context, as you press and rub a fiber pad over the surface each of the tiny fibers "cuts" the paint. This is more aggressive than the uniform surface texture offered by soft foam.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4164/Foam_vs_Fiber_03.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4164/Foam_vs_Fiber_03c.JPG



If you're trying to use the least aggressive process possible then start or test with foam. If this isn't cutting it, (pun intended), then test or use a soft microfiber applicator pad.


Make sense?



:)

[Tsquad1024]

Thank you Mike for responding. I will try the foam pad method.

I am attaching another pic.

Hopefully you can see better.


73192



:buffing:

[Mike Phillips]

I am attaching another pic.

Hopefully you can see better.




Apologies, from the first picture I though the area you were trying to show was a reflection or something?

But this area here that is GREY?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/burnthroughz.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/burnthroughw.jpg



That looks like PRIMER.


If that is primer, that means you rubbed through the clearcoat and the basecoat and it's time for new paint.


:dunno:

[Tsquad1024]

Yes thats exactly the area. Oh man thats a bummer. I was really hoping to avoid re painting. Can I use touch up paint?

[2black1s]

How much pressure did you use by hand?

When hand polishing out a scratch you will typically need to start with some pretty firm pressure, but that pressure needed to remove the scratch can leave some "scouring" of the surface behind. That scouring could be the "white cloudy" appearance you describe. That needs to be followed by another polishing cycle were you gradually decrease the pressure applied throughout the cycle, finishing with very light pressure - almost zero.

I know Mike likes foam pads for this type of polishing, but I have never had an issue using microfiber and/or even terry cotton towels. In fact, a folded towel is my first choice. I don't like foam pads as most of them are too thin and will not do a very good job at spreading out your finger pressure. A towel folded to 6-8 layers thick spreads out your finger pressure much better.

EDIT:
The latter pictures that appear to be exposed primer raises another question. I didn't see them until after I wrote this post. How hard and how long did you polish for? Working by hand it would take some serious effort and time to cut through a BC/CC area like that. Could it be single-stage? And atypically thin at that?

[Tsquad1024]

I am not sure if it is a singe stage. It is a 2021 Subaru Forester. I didnt think I was going so hard at it.

[2black1s]

Yes thats exactly the area. Oh man thats a bummer. I was really hoping to avoid re painting. Can I use touch up paint?

Yes... If you set your expectations low enough.

Can you send a photo from farther out to provide some context to the area? Then I can give you a better assessment as to repair methods.

[Tsquad1024]

73195
73196

[2black1s]

Ok. That appears to be the left quarter panel and the area of concern is smaller than I anticipated from the earlier photos. That's a good thing.

Assuming that what we're seeing is actually primer, here are your repair options, starting with the highest quality and descending from there...

1) Spot repair and blend the color base coat followed by clear coating the entire panel.
2) Spot repair and blend the color base coat and the clear coat
3) Brush touch-up with color and clear coat
4) Brush touch-up with color only

Notes:

For options 2, 3, or 4, it is important to keep the repair area as small as possible. This due to the fact that the repair is going to show... The smaller the area the less obvious it will be.

For option 1 it is still advisable to keep the color blend coat a small as practical to minimize the appearance of any color mismatch to the bumper cover, but it is not as important as with options 2, 3, or 4 as you will be clear coating the entire panel.

Personally, I'd try option 3 or 4 first. If that will meet your expectations, it is by far the easiest and quickest. But keep in mind, this option is not going to provide the "perfect" repair. It will likely pass the 10-foot test, but you will certainly see it if you look for it.

If option 3 or 4 doesn't meet your expectation, it will not preclude you from doing option 1 or 2.

[Tsquad1024]

Thank you so much for giving me all these options.

Can I use this

Please Wait... | Cloudflare (https://www.paintscratch.com/neworder/store/item/tukit/Paint-Bottle-Kit/)

I want to give that a try. Any special way to do the brush up?

[2black1s]

Thank you so much for giving me all these options.

Can I use this

Please Wait... | Cloudflare (https://www.paintscratch.com/neworder/store/item/tukit/Paint-Bottle-Kit/)

I want to give that a try. Any special way to do the brush up?

Yes you can try that but I prefer to use enamel or urethane for touch-ups. Lacquer dries too fast for most brushing applications and unfortunately almost all generic touch-up kits that I am aware of are lacquer.

You would need to go to an automotive paint supply store to procure the enamel or urethane material.

[Mike Phillips]

Wow!


All I can think is the factory paint must be soft and thin?

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachments/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/73195d1619541968-polishing-damage-img_5246-jpg


Has this panel or this car ever been repainted?


Two more comments... and these are for everyone that will read this thread into the future.


1: When working out defects that are IN the paint. Remember that paint is THIN. See my article here,

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/87410-clearcoats-thin-mike-phillips.html)


If your fingernail catches in the scratch, that's an indicator it's too deep to remove safely and you risk removing so much clearcoat that you expose the basecoat or worse, primer or even worse, the underlying panel. When this happens, the only way to recover is to repaint.



2: When attempting to remove deeper scratches, if working on a clearcoated car, you should NEVER see color or pigment on your applicator cloth, applicator pad or buffing pad if working by machine. As soon as you see the color of the car on any of these things, STOP. You have went through the clearcoat.


I've been helping people to remove swirls and scratches for a career now and I understand many of you, that are the type of person that swirls, scratches and water spots in your car's finish will BUG YOU as in you are probably a tick OCD.

OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder


While I admire your passion for perfection, because the factory paint on most cars is very thin, there's only so much paint correction you can do before you simply have to learn to live with what you cannot remove.

To that end I wrote these articles,

Wow!


All I can think is the factory paint must be soft and thin?

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachments/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/73195d1619541968-polishing-damage-img_5246-jpg


Has this panel or this car ever been repainted?


Two more comments... and these are for everyone that will read this thread into the future.


1: When working out defects that are IN the paint. Remember that paint is THIN. See my article here,

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/87410-clearcoats-thin-mike-phillips.html)


If your fingernail catches in the scratch, that's an indicator it's too deep to remove safely and you risk removing so much clearcoat that you expose the basecoat or worse, primer or even worse, the underlying panel. When this happens, the only way to recover is to repaint.



2: When attempting to remove deeper scratches, if working on a clearcoated car, you should NEVER see color or pigment on your applicator cloth, applicator pad or buffing pad if working by machine. As soon as you see the color of the car on any of these things, STOP. You have went through the clearcoat.


I've been helping people to remove swirls and scratches for a career now and I understand many of you, that are the type of person that swirls, scratches and water spots in your car's finish will BUG YOU as in you are probably a tick OCD.

OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder


While I admire your passion for perfection, because the factory paint on most cars is very thin, there's only so much paint correction you can do before you simply have to learn to live with what you cannot remove.

To that end I wrote these articles,


When to stop buffing - Or - How far should you go to remove swirls and scratches? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/125038-when-stop-buffing-how-far-should-you-go-remove-swirls-scratches.html)

Considerations for removing paint defects - the BIG PICTURE (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fy9r27ol5)

Topical Defects vs Sub-Surface Defects - Living life on the edge of the razor blade (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/126603-topical-defects-vs-sub-surface-defects-living-life-edge-razor-blade.html)

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/104333-what-means-remove-scratch-out-anything.html)




:)

[dgage]

I think that most people assume a new car will obviously not be repainted but the reality is there is quite a bit of damage in transit and on the car lot that is never reported. Even with a new car, a paint thickness gauge will validate whether any METAL parts have been repainted. You’d need to get a near $2,000 paint thickness gauge for plastic panels such as bumpers. The following is a paint thickness gauge I bought for detailing and when buying cars as I bought a couple cars recently for the kids. The gauge paid for itself by identifying a car that had been partially repainted but didn’t have an accident on its record. Looking closer, there was more damage on that car than initially seen so we passed.

HighLine Meter Paint Thickness Gauge 2nd Generation (https://www.autogeek.net/highline-paint-gauge.html)