CarPro Denim pad and Meguirs M105 not working on orange peel

[Godbiggy]

Hey Guys,

I noticed a lot of people had luck with these pads for orange peel but for me it seems like it wonÂ’t cut down on my orange peel or even the clearcoat in general.

I did 3 rounds of 5-8 passes in small sections w/ medium pressure to only shave about 3-5 microns off from it being around 175 microns... the orange peel isnÂ’t as bad from the start but its really noticeable still. just worried that I’ll use too much clear and not even fix my orange peel, the pads are really rough to begin with and M105 but I don’t understand how it can’t level or cut the clear with this much effort.

using a DA griots machine as well, I am stumped on what to do since I really donÂ’t want to wetsand and probably donÂ’t have the skills to do a satisfactory job.

my question is, can it really be that the clear is too hard? Car was repainted with Sikkens and baked and I canÂ’t find another compound or setup to level my orange peel quicker without sanding :(

i have some pictures and you can probably see the orange peel like an eye sore :/

the pics all have a description of the situation and it shows without the light reflection that the orange peel is really evident:/

Imgur: The magic of the Internet (https://imgur.com/a/eGBHLAW)

[glen e]

I don’t think an orbital can get rid of orange peel at all. Yes there are a few that consistently do it because they just spend all day with a denim pad an orbital and finally they get a little bit of progress on the paint. But the only way that I’ve ever gotten rid of Orange peel is to wet sand with Finer grades of paper up to about 2000 or even 3000, and then use a strong compound and a rotary with a hybrid wool pad to bring back the gloss. Then I moved to an orbital to bring back the final gloss.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a video and an article I wrote on removing orange peel using a simple orbital polisher.



https://youtu.be/_Z1ZaF10nbo



Here's my article from 2013 with some really good pictures showing before and after.


How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/69156-how-remove-orange-peel-using-porter-cable-dual-action-polisher.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2002/1949_Chevy_Truck_081.jpg




:)

[Mike Phillips]

Hey Guys,

I noticed a lot of people had luck with these pads for orange peel but for me it seems like it wonÂ’t cut down on my orange peel or even the clearcoat in general.







I don’t think an orbital can get rid of orange peel at all. Yes there are a few that consistently do it because they just spend all day with a denim pad an orbital and finally they get a little bit of progress on the paint.

But the only way that I’ve ever gotten rid of Orange peel is to wet sand with Finer grades of paper up to about 2000 or even 3000, and then use a strong compound and a rotary with a hybrid wool pad to bring back the gloss. Then I moved to an orbital to bring back the final gloss.





Even though I've done it and documented it, I have to say, I'm with Glen on this topic.

If you really want to remove orange peel, the right way to do it is to carefully hand block sand.


BUT - I don't recommend the masses wetsand factory paint. In fact, one of the articles I've written that I share the MOST in this world explains why,


Wetsanding removes paint - Compounding removes paint - Polishing removes a little paint (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/125619-wetsanding-removes-paint-compounding-removes-paint-polishing-removes-little-paint.html)


I've been typing the above for YEARS now on this forum in an effort to educate people of something that is VERY BASIC.




Wetsanding removes paint
Compounding removes paint
Polishing removes a little paint



Most of the time when I type out the above, it's in the context of someone that has NEVER wetsanded before and for whatever their reason, now they are THINKING of wetsanding their car.

Then as they share more information we find out the car in question has the FACTOR CLEARCOAT.


The factory clearcoat on a modern car is around 2 mils THIN. A Post-it Note is around 3 mils thin.


This means the clear layer of paint on your car is THINNER than a post-it note.




Here's my article with pictures that makes it easy for you to wrap your brain around this idea.


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/87410-clearcoats-thin-mike-phillips.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=68388




So for about 99.9% of the population... you should NOT be wetsanding the factory finish on your car because,




Wetsanding removes paint
Compounding removes paint
Polishing removes a little paint



And sooner or later, when you're running your buffer over the paint to remove the sanding marks or the holograms from a rotary buffer/wool pad compounding step - you're going to turn your buffer off, turn it over and see the COLOR of the basecoat on the face of the pad.


This is a REALLY BAD SIGN.


Now you get to repaint that panel.


95% of ALL wetsanding is done to CUSTOM cars with CUSTOM paint jobs where the paint is THICKER.


So watch some more YouTube videos and read some more hero stories on Facebook and go ahead and sand down your factory finish. And if and when you sand or buff through the clearcoat layer, don't ask how you can fix this with more buffing, that's not how you fix missing clearcoat. You repaint.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

One more comment then I have to move on....


If you feel compelled to try to remove orange peel using denim pads, I would look for a caveman compound, something that uses junk for abrasive technology. It's my theory that the abrasives when trapped between the denim pad and paint will work BETTER for knocking down the high portions or hills of the orange peel than GREAT abrasive technology that feels like Jergen's hand lotion.

Test me on this...

Shake up your bottle of Meguiar's M105 and pour some into your hand.

Next - take and feel some of this compound between your thumb and index finger. Guess what?

You CANNOT feel anything. It uses super micro-abrasive technology - thus it feels like a smooth, silky hand lotion, not rocks-in-a-bottle.


It's my theory that a rocks-in-a-bottle type compound, that is old school, crap technology will work better with this technique than a hi-tech product.


If I were you and I REALLY wanted to knock down the orange peel, get some 3M Trizact #8000 or #5000 sanding discs and machine sand or even hand sand with these discs and then use the M105 to remove your sanding marks.


Like this,

Review: Wolfgang Si02 Paint Sealant (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews-by-mike-phillips/125864-review-wolfgang-si02-paint-sealant.html)


From page 3 and post 21



To go from this,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3984/aWolfgang_Si02_PS_003.JPG




the upper right hand section is machine sanded

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3984/aWolfgang_Si02_PS_027.JPG



To this

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3984/aWolfgang_Si02_PS_028.JPG



I show the process on page 1 of the thread.



And just to reinforce what I say often on this forum. I've NEVER claimed to be good at "reviewing" products. I do think I'm good at writing "how-to" articles. If you read the review I shared above, you'll see it's actually a how-to articles and it shows enough how-to information it could be a how-to book.


:)

[98CayenneTA]

One more comment then I have to move on....


If you feel compelled to try to remove orange peel using denim pads, I would look for a caveman compound, something that uses junk for abrasive technology.

3m Imperial Compound fits these requirements :buffing:

[Mike Phillips]

3m Imperial Compound fits these requirements :buffing:




Ha ha.... been a while since I used it.


I know most dedicated, marine compounds are very aggressive and the entry level or cheaper options probably are the rock-in-a-bottle type products.



:)

[glen e]

I think a better example of where denim versus wet sanding works (and safer) is on rejuvenating headlight plastic. For me the fastest and easiest way to bring back clouded headlights is 2000 wet sanding and the rotary. It works in about half the time of using anything else including a denim and orbital combo.

And yeah, it still takes rocks in a bottle as a product When you’re doing this. Last time I did it I used one of the HD Menzerna products.

[The Guz]

May want to look into another compound. M101 for example. CarPro Ultracut works well with the denim pads.

[chet31]

CarPro Denim pads and M105 is the exact combo I used on a section of my car that was repainted and had minor-to-medium orange peel. I would say I worked an area 3-4 passes, less than 20 seconds and got noticeable improvement. The pads get gunked up fast, for about a 1' x 2' area, using four pads, I could only make noticeable improvement, and not make it perfect. I was using a Flex 3401 polisher. Anyway, my feeling is 1.) Like me, you don't have enough pads to do the job in one sitting. These pads really cut and "lose it" literally in seconds. 2.) You ran into some hard clear coat.

P.S. I hit my car three different times, got it to about 90%. I stopped there. I had done no damage, it looked good, and I was the only person in the world that would notice the difference (except for perhaps members of this forum :laughing:).

[2wookies]

Which Griots machine are you using?

[The Guz]

You need many pads and they need to be cleaned after every few passes.

But it is possible to level some of it. A paint thickness gauge helps to have on hand.

I’m leveling out some orange peel and clear coat over spray. I’m using 3D ACA. I’m not expecting perfection but rather improvement on my repainted Grand Prix from years ago.

Velvet pad on my mirror.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/24ce937ca7023c5576c5a9bf1c53e026.jpg

Denim pad on the pillar to remove clear coat over spray

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210507/95ac470b67b186d0c278991db0d71635.jpg