Should I clay and polish before ceramic coating?

[Mike Phillips]

Should I clay and polish before ceramic coating?


Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where

A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.

B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)


The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.

The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.


So I get an e-mail asking,





Mr. Phillips,

I was wanting to get some guidance from you, I just bought a brand new vehicle that came from the factory 2 weeks ago and I purchased the pinnacle diamond ceramic coating pro. Should I clay and polish my vehicle prior to applying the ceramic coat?

Thank you for you consideration

Chad





Great questions Chad.

The answer is yes.

Do do the job right you want the paint perfect. Even when a car is brand new, it's been shipped, sitting somewhere in a storage yard and then on a dealerships car lot and probably washed and "touched" by a host of people during this time.

You have ZERO idea what's been used on the paint and my guess is - if you do the baggie test - the paint will fail.

If it were me and my car? I wash,


Wash and dry
Clay paint using an ultra fine clay
Machine polish using a fine cut polish and an orbital polisher with a foam polishing pad.
Use a panel wipe to remove any residual oils
Install the coating



You can get into machine polishing and all the supplies you need to do this for probably around $300.00 if you go with a simple tool like the Porter Cable 7424XP or the Griot's G9

You'll need microfiber towels too and to be REAL for a moment - anyone that's going to install a ceramic coating really should have a great hand-held light to inspect for high spots. I spent half the day yesterday and after I hit the [SUBMIT REPLY] button I'll be back in the garage finishing the job of removing ceramic coating high spots off a 2001 red Corvette.

A good light would have prevented me doing the job a second time.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

More...

Hope that helps and feel encouraged to join our forum, this is where I answer questions. Email and Facebook messaging are okay, but the forum is a LOT more powerful. (think about it - it's how you found me in the first place)


Click here to join the AutogeekOnline.net car detailing discussion forum - THE best forum on the Internet (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/register.php)



:)

[Mike Phillips]

More...

Here's what I'm talking about...

Installing a Ceramic Paint Coating? You MUST have a GREAT hand held light to avoid high spots! (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2018-new-car-detailing-how-to-article-by-mike-phillips/120538-installing-ceramic-paint-coating-you-must-have-great-hand-held-light-avoid-high-spots.html)



This article has good pictures showing what a high spot looks like,


How to remove a Ceramic Paint Coating High Spot by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fy8w8xao5)


Here's a very detailed article where I show all the steps I used to install a ceramic coating....


Review: GYEON Q2 ONE Enthusiast Ceramic Coating by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fycfm9n5h)



Here's another one,

How to detail a 2014 Corvette Stingray (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/76060-how-detail-2014-corvette-stingray.html)




:)

[Mike Phillips]

More...

Here's some good reading to pick through...

Ceramic Paint Coating How-To Articles by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/124296-ceramic-paint-coating-how-articles-mike-phillips.html)


:)

[Mike Phillips]

More...



Can't type any longer, have to go finish the paint correction and then install a ceramic coating on this old 2-door Chevy


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210324/0239d8227dae80cffb5077aa127fe072.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210324/0338bde4d72e41d92cc6df6d4a77be4d.jpg



And instructor that leads by example and also shares all his work. Who else does this?



:buffing:

[Mike Phillips]

More....


Here's the follow-up e-mail



Mike,

I purchased the pinnacle diamond ceramic coating pro and diamond surface prep spray. I washed, Clayed, and polished my truck and was about to apply the coating but when I reviewed how to apply the coating, I read that I should have used the cleansing polish since it said this is a critical step... UGH, is this true?

Or can I use any polish?

I have klasse all in one and Wolfgang paintwork polish.

Thank you,

Chad




Hi Chad,

Yes after washing and claying, for best results you should at a minimum use a paint cleaner or a polish to clean and polish the paint.


* A paint cleaner only removes topical contamination off the surface.

* A polish removes topical contamination AND also removes fine or shallow paint defects.


Given the choice - I would use a polish. It will do everything a paint cleaner will do and more. So for the same amount of your time and energy - you'll get more out of using a polish versus a paint cleaner.


You mentioned Klasse All-in-One?

Let's look at those words in the name. ALL IN ONE. Here's the deal Chad, anytime you see a paint care product described as an ALL IN ONE - this means it does three things,


Cleans
Polishes
Protects



This last thing it does - PROTECTS - this means it leaves some kind of natural wax or synthetic substance behind on the surface to PROTECT the surface. If you use this type of product then you CANNOT apply a COATING because the stuff doing the protection will keep the coating from making a proper BOND to the paint.



Also - the Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer is a misleading product name.


It is NOT a polish. It is a non-abrasive paint cleaner. But yes - you could use this after washing and claying and before chemically stripping the paint and then installing the coating.


Hope this clears up any confusing.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

And for what it's worth....

I'm not a fan of nor have I ever been a user of - paint cleaners.


Here's my article on this topic and in it I explain why.




A paint cleaner is an either/or product - The difference between a paint cleaner and a paint polish by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/124374-paint-cleaner-either-product-difference-between-paint-cleaner-paint-polish-mike-phillips.html)



There's always been a TON of confusion over paint cleaners. I remember back when Meguiar's sold their 3-Step consumer line of product that included a paint cleaner, a paint polish and a wax. The paint cleaner was NON-abrasive, chemical cleaning only. (I have a story about that product). Besides Meguiar's, a lot of other companies offer a simple, chemical-only cleaning product generically called a paint cleaner.


What is a paint cleaner?
A paint cleaner is typically cleans the surface of the paint to remove light oxidization, surface impurities, built-up wax, gloss enhancers, shine ingredients, etc. It LIGHTLY cleans or REMOVES anything sitting on the top surface to reveal a fresh base of paint. This prepares the paint to accept a coat of wax or synthetic sealant. For paint in new or like new condition, that is paint that either does NOT have below surface defects like swirls and scratches, or for people that DON'T care about removing below surface defects like swirls and scratches, a paint cleaner is a necessary product to use after washing and before applying a NON-cleaning wax or sealant.

Non-cleaning waxes and sealants - Show Car Waxes - Show Car Sealants
Most of the waxes and sealants at your local auto parts stores are one-step cleaner/waxes. The online world calls these AIOs. A cleaner/wax, or a cleaner/sealant or an AIO are all the EXACT same thing, just different words to give them a name. These types of products do 3 things in one step,


Clean
Polish
Protect




Non-Cleaning Waxes - Finishing Waxes - Show Car Waxes
Another group of waxes and/or sealants offer ZERO cleaning ability, at your local auto parts stores, these would be Meguiar's M21 Hi Tech Yellow Wax or Mothers California Gold Carnauba Wax. There might be other non-cleaning waxes at the retail level but historically, these are two such product that have been consistently available.


Here's the deal...

For neglected paint you can get away with a one-step cleaner/wax. But you CANNOT use a non-cleaning wax. The reasons should be obvious but if you don't know why - the paint on a daily driver gets a dirt stain on it from exposure to the world. A cleaner/wax will remove this dirt stain and leave the paint looking CLEAR and shiny while also protecting it. A NON-CLEANING wax or sealant will NOT remove road film or dirt staining. It also won't remove any oxidation or other surface impurities. In fact, it will seal all these negative substances ONTO the paint.

This is historically where paint cleaner fits into the car waxing process. If you're going to us a non-cleaning wax or sealant on a daily driver or on neglected paint, you would first use a paint cleaner.


What is a paint polish?
A true paint polish contain some form of ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY. In my opinion and experience, the abrasive technology used by any brand of compounds and polishes is either GREAT or it's crap. There is no in-between because it either works, or it doesn't. If the abrasive technology works this means it can be moved over a painted surface where it will remove below surface defects WITHOUT leaving it's own mark or scratch. If it doesn't work, this means sure it will remove below surface defects but it replaces them with it's own defects usually called micro-marring.

Micro-marring is the kind, nice and fluffy way to say scratching.


So bad abrasive technology leaves scratches in the paint. I call this working backwards.


What is a Fine Cut Polish?
A fine cut polish is simply that, it only lightly abrades the surface to remove only a small amount of paint. Thus a fine cut polish is only for removing SHALLOW defects or for use after a more aggressive process like using an aggressive compound or a medium cut polish.

A fine cut polish can also be used in place of a paint cleaner as they will do the same thing, lightly clean the surface only a fine cut polish will do MORE than a paint cleaner as it will clean the surface AND remove shallow below surface paint defects.




Paint Cleaner vs Paint Polish


You either use a paint cleaner and move on to your sealing process OR you skip the paint cleaner and use a polish or a compound and polishes and then move onto your sealing process.

You don't use both. This would not only be redundant, it would be a waste of your time, energy and money.


And for what it's worth, I never use paint cleaners except to share what they are and how to use them.

Why?

Because for ALL the work and time it takes to apply a paint cleaner, which hardly does anything, (perfect for some paint and some people, just not me), instead I could use a fine cut polish.

A QUALITY fine cut polish, that is a brand that uses GREAT abrasive technology, will do EVERYTHING a paint cleaner will do and MORE.

A paint cleaner JUST lightly cleans the surface of paint.

A fine cut polish will lightly clean the surface of paint AND remove minor defects.


You get so much more bang for the buck from your time, energy, money and results to use a fine cut polish over a paint cleaner.

But as a co-worker here at Autogeek once said to me when I first came to Autogeek in 2009,

Never spend another man's money


So I'm not saying a paint cleaner is a bad product, it's the perfect product for some people and some paint.

But for me? I know how to use a machine so for the same amount of time, money and effort I would always choose a fine cut polish over a paint cleaner.


Make sense?


And that my cyber friends is the difference between a paint cleaner and a polish.



:)