I'm polishing a '63 Continental this weekend - could use some tips! [first post]

[crg001]

For the portion I made red/bold text

From experience, you will get a LOT more shine if you cut the paint first with a fiber pad. If you really want to go nuts - get a rotary polisher and a twisted wool pad and do the initial cut with wool and compound. Old school single stage paint really like wool pads on rotary for removing the oxidation but for also restore a stable HARD shine.



This is good to know. I would absolutely LOVE to learn how to use a rotary+wool for removing heavy defects. I plan to get one in the near future and probably a junk body panel for me to practice on. As of now, I have zero experience with such a tool and don't wish to start grinding into somebody else's vehicle without any learning time, lol. For now the best tool I have is my G9. One day I hope I'll have an assortment for each type of situation. Maybe one day I could make it out to Florida for one of your classes and try them all.





Ditto. I'm guilty of the above from the time I started to today. Forget what everyone says - do what makes you sleep good at night.

An honest man's pillow is his peace of mine - John Cougar Melloncamp - Moments to Memories - Scarecrow Album






That describes me. I can APPRECIATE modern cars and modern technology but I would rather work on old school Detroit Iron any day of the week. Plus - no stupid plastic trim to tape-off or deal with. :dunno:





Save the Comet Technique for another day.

Also - your clay bar is going to get loaded with dead paint, so it will probably only be good for this one project. Nature of the beast.






The simple Lake Country foam flat pads are a time-proven pad. I also like the new RUPES CP foam pads but my guess is they are a few dollars more.


Looking forward to the after pictures.


:)

I'm hoping that I'll get more opportunities for old school cars like this! There are still quite a lot of muscle car/classic car meets and shows around here in Southern CA, I know my buddy will be bringing this Continental to some and showing off my work!

I'll definitely be picking up some Lake Country or Buff and Shine flat pads with my next order from here. The local 3D store sells some B&S pads also.

After pics will definitely be coming to this thread :)

[crg001]

More...


One thing most detailers don't do is take time to get great before pictures. The money shot is always the hood.

Check out this article,


The power in the after shots is created in the before shots (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21216-power-after-shots-created-before-shots.html)


In the picture below, if you DIDN'T know how bad the paint was BEFORE the paint correction, you wouldn't have as much appreciation for the AFTER results.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/beforeaftershot.JPG



And if it helps, take the time and put in the effort to get OVER the hood. Like this,


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3436/1959_Chevy_004.JPG





Here's how I was able to get the high overhead hood shot - I used a ladder.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3436/1959_Chevy_006.JPG





Once you start working on the hood or the car, it's too late to get the best before shots.


:)

Thank you, Mike!!

I'm guilty of being a poor photographer when it comes to showing before and afters. I'm trying to force myself to learn how to do better at this, and the high overhead shot looks like one that's easy to get in the habit of. I'll absolutely get some good shots this way!

Thanks again for offering me your sage advice. I'm happy and humbled to be a part of this forum, and I'll be here to stay for a while. I already spend hours a day reading threads, why not contribute now?

[crg001]

Thanks for your reply.

Regarding the blob on the hood. While I agree 100% with Mike's "Mountain/Molehill" analogy, in fact if you've ever seen any of my posts on touch-up's one thing I always stress is that the repair area should be no larger than the original defect, there is a way for you to address that blob if you so desire.

Here's how I would go about it...

Get a piece of 2" masking tape and cut a hole in the center of it slightly larger than the diameter of the blob. Firmly attach the tape around the blob. Take your razor blade (brand new and sharp) and lay it flat across the tape. Then with a slicing motion remove the blob. Now you will be able to determine what is below the surface.

If it is paint, you're nearly done. You can stop here or you can remove the tape and try to level it a little better. If you stop, now you'll have a blemish that is only about the thickness of the tape (approx .004 - .005") higher than the surrounding finish. Not perfect, but certainly better than what you have now. If you decide to level it further, it now becomes tricky and I'd think very carefully before proceeding.

If it's corrosion or any other foreign substance then you'll need a different approach. In that case I would use the corner of the razor edge to scrape and remove the foreign substance, being careful to remove only what's necessary without enlarging the defect size. Then do a brush touch-up.

In either of these cases you can minimize the appearance of the blob without creating a "mountain out of a molehill".

Thank you so much for this detailed walk through on how I can work with this defect. When I'm with the vehicle this weekend I'll definitely keep this approach in mind after I inspect it more thoroughly. I won't have any touch up paint for this vehicle at hand so I'm more likely to take the safe approach if it seems like anything besides hardened paint. Either way I will definitely record my progress with it and share it here.

[crg001]

Well, the job is complete. All in, it took me about 15 hours of hard work split over two days.


I started with a waterless wash using N-914 in a pump sprayer

https://i.imgur.com/CZvK8Xll.jpg



Then went around the entire car with the clay bar using N-914 at panel wipe dilution for lubrication. This was just from one little section of the hood on a brand new clay bar! :wowwow:

https://i.imgur.com/i7Mch3Sl.jpg



Next I went around the car with some wadding metal polish and buffed all the chrome bits by hand

https://i.imgur.com/adqA5eWl.jpg



After a few test spots using different levels of compound and pad combos, it was time to start compounding the paint. To my surprise, the paint was VERY hard. I ended up using 3D ACA 500 with a Uro-Fiber 50/50 pad. I did about 4 passes on each divided section, first two lightly overlapping passes (in a criss-cross pattern) on speed 6 on my G9 with medium to heavy pressure, then followed up with two more passes on speed 5 with lighter pressure to smooth the area out a little more consistently. By the way, the G9 is a beast on these flat panels and will keep on spinning even if I'm hammering my weight onto the machine with a 5 inch fiber pad! This was a lot of grueling work and easily took up the majority of the 15 hours spent on this car.

https://i.imgur.com/7fxPvcal.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/akFVrHql.jpg




Finally, after finishing the compounding the next day, I finished and sealed the paint in one step with 3D Speed. I also hit the windshield and as much of the brightwork as I could with 3D Speed as well. Speed easily took out the micro-marring from the first stage (which there was a noticeable amount of from hammering on it with ACA 500 and microfiber, tested and verified with a stripping panel wipe) and left the finish super glossy and warm. The color of this car turned from a pasty dirty white to a beautiful, rich cream color. The results were absolutely jaw-dropping.


Here's the high overhead comparison shot.

https://i.imgur.com/K8TsnMtl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8dAMRu4l.jpg



This was easily the most intense polishing process I've done to date. And my, what a rewarding experience. It wasn't show-car perfect at the end, but it was closer to it than I expected to achieve. Bringing some old single stage back to life is a heck of a satisfying process! I mean, just look at this thing!

https://i.imgur.com/2mzJiztl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nm0uBsal.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ozwDWLtl.jpg



Products used:

https://i.imgur.com/KYM8vwFl.jpg



Just want to say thanks to everyone here, Mike Phillips especially!

I wouldn't have known how to tackle this beast of a job without hours of research, reading Mike's articles, reading countless discussions over pads, machines, products, etc... I'm just blown away by these results.

Hopefully I will have more opportunities like this, because as a detail nerd, this job was like a rite of passage.

What a beautiful car. Im the MAN :buffing: Im the MAN

[2black1s]

Very Cool! Glad to hear all went well and it sure does look nice in your pics.

What did you end up doing with the defects (peeling paint around trim; and the hood "blob")?

[TMQ]

Awesome!

Glad it turned out well!

Restoring these old single stage paint is my forte! And I love it!

Tom

[crg001]

Very Cool! Glad to hear all went well and it sure does look nice in your pics.

What did you end up doing with the defects (peeling paint around trim; and the hood "blob")?

Thank you so much! I did as you suggested around the antenna and the hood emblem, I picked and poked off the dead peeling paint with a razor blade. As I was claying the area, it grabbed some of those edges as well and luckily it all broke off very cleanly, without any signs of peeling any further past the boundary as you speculated. I didn't get any close-up after photos of the area, unfortunately.

For the blob on the hood, I poked and prodded at it a little more before taking the razor to it, and it started to collapse under the pressure of my finger. I decided to leave it be, as I didn't want to expose anything even more unsightly underneath it. I decided to play it safe with that one.

[crg001]

Awesome!

Glad it turned out well!

Restoring these old single stage paint is my forte! And I love it!

Tom

Thank you! I'm hooked! I can't wait until I can get another chance at a car like this

[fly07sti]

I’m glad you had a good time. Car looks great now.

[Mike Phillips]

Well, the job is complete. All in, it took me about 15 hours of hard work split over two days.

After a few test spots using different levels of compound and pad combos, it was time to start compounding the paint. To my surprise, the paint was VERY hard.




And thus the importance of doing a Test Spot... or two... :xyxthumbs:

Paint Hardness


Previously in this thread I shared a write-up on a 1950 Pontiac with the original single stage paint. It was as soft as butter on a warm day.

You found the single stage paint on this car, (not original but old), to be very hard.

So what could be the reason for this paint being hard and not soft?

1: Different paint resin technology.

2: The pigment substance has a huge effect on paint hardness.


My guess is the hardness of this paint is a combination of both of the above.





I ended up using 3D ACA 500 with a Uro-Fiber 50/50 pad. I did about 4 passes on each divided section, first two lightly overlapping passes (in a criss-cross pattern) on speed 6 on my G9 with medium to heavy pressure, then followed up with two more passes on speed 5 with lighter pressure to smooth the area out a little more consistently.



Perfect technique. I know some guys teach to maintain the firm downward pressure throughout the buffing cycle - I'm NOT one of those guys. Actually never could understand their reasoning.

Here's my quote,


Polishing paint is an art form, not a grinding process -Mike Phillips



If you maintain firm pressure throughout the buffing cycle, that is from start to finish, as your abrasive technology removes paint, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad.

Spent product - that's wore out compound, polish or AIO

Removed paint - this is the result from abrading the surface


For your last few passes - why would you want to force and grind this into the paint? The better practice is to reduce your downward pressure and polish-out.


Ah... what do I know... :dunno: :laughing:






By the way, the G9 is a beast on these flat panels and will keep on spinning even if I'm hammering my weight onto the machine with a 5 inch fiber pad!




I agree. Griot's did a great job with this tool. Here's what I said about it when I reviewed it when it launched.

Review: Griot's G9 - 9mm Orbit Stroke Random Orbital Polisher by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews-by-mike-phillips/124412-review-griots-g9-9mm-orbit-stroke-random-orbital-polisher-mike-phillips.html)


From the first post...






LOTS OF POWER!

This is the first tool I've used in my career where I didn't feel the need to go to the highest speed setting, which is 6 on the speed dial. It's that powerful, or better said, it's spins the pad so fast. I found myself running the tool on the 5 speed setting the majority of the time.

Why is this important?

Because I know my audience and they are looking for power. And in the context of a free spinning random orbital polisher power means the ability to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

This tool has TONS of power.




The new Griot's G9 and G8 are very capable tools.







This was a lot of grueling work and easily took up the majority of the 15 hours spent on this car.



They don't come any larger than classic Detroit Iron!

Just imagine if it had a painted ROOF! :buffing: add a few more hours to the job. :D








Finally, after finishing the compounding the next day, I finished and sealed the paint in one step with 3D Speed.



A quality cleaner/wax like 3D Speed works great as a FINAL POLISH that seals the paint at the same time. Plus wipe-off is a breeze. A nice feature when wiping down a car that's 20' long!






I also hit the windshield and as much of the brightwork as I could with 3D Speed as well.



Just to interject here...

Some people, include those I work with, they think I like old cars because they are old cars. While this is true, the other important reason I like to buff out old cars instead of new cars is because...

Drum Roll......


There's no freaking plastic trim!


With a new car you have to either be careful and avoid plastic trim or tape it off. With classics cars, muscle cars, customs, streetrods, etc. - there's no junky plastic trim. Instead there's either,



Chrome
Aluminum
Stainless Steel
Nickel


And instead of avoiding or taping these metals off - you RUN THE POLISHER OVER THEM! This makes them shiny and adds to the completed pictures, which is BLING! The entire car now looks shiny, the paint, the metal trim and the GLASS!

Yeah, I would choose to buff out a 1969 Chevelle over any modern car any day of the week. I appreciate modern cars and all their hi-tech conveniences, but I'm lazy. It's simply easier to buff out old cars than it is to buff out most new cars all due to the curse of the detailing industry.

Pebble Textured Plastic Trim

Whoever the Engineer was that invented pebble textured plastic trim is - it's obvious to me - they never detailed a car. :nomore:







Speed easily took out the micro-marring from the first stage (which there was a noticeable amount of from hammering on it with ACA 500 and microfiber, tested and verified with a stripping panel wipe) and left the finish super glossy and warm.



And now you fully understand what I'm talking about when I say,

Fibers are a form of abrasives

Fiber pads leave micro-marring in car paint. It's working backwards. But sometimes it's a nessessary evil to move forwards. :props:





The color of this car turned from a pasty dirty white to a beautiful, rich cream color. The results were absolutely jaw-dropping.



What's old is new again. I've seen some Kia SOULS painted this butternut squash color. :eyesroll:






Here's the high overhead comparison shot.

https://i.imgur.com/K8TsnMtl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8dAMRu4l.jpg





Well done. I'm impressed.

Most people don't take the time to get out a ladder and get the BEFORE shot. Then after the car's all shiny they regret it. And like I say,

After the detail, you cannot go back in time to get the before shot - so get them before you start.


I'm also glad and impressed that no one screwed up the before shot by polishing a section BEFORE getting the before shot. Having a shiny spot on an otherwise neglected hood IN the before shot ruins the before shot. Well done.






This was easily the most intense polishing process I've done to date. And my, what a rewarding experience. It wasn't show-car perfect at the end, but it was closer to it than I expected to achieve.




Not that you didn't think and feel this way before but after tackling this neglected single stage monster, you now have a better understanding of polishing paint as an art form. It's not just,

Step 1
Step 2
Step 3
Etc.

Besides the tools, pads and products, you put some of yourself into your work. As I like to say,

We bring the human elements of care and passion to the project and these things cannot be put into a bottle or encased in a tool chassis.







Bringing some old single stage back to life is a heck of a satisfying process! I mean, just look at this thing!

https://i.imgur.com/2mzJiztl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nm0uBsal.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ozwDWLtl.jpg




Freaking Amazing!


As my friend Jason Brennan (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-2-day-boat-detailing-classes/123331-neglected-respected-1985-cougar-tunnel-hull-extreme-makeover-autogeek.html) would say,


From neglected to respected!







Products used:

https://i.imgur.com/KYM8vwFl.jpg





Just want to say thanks to everyone here, Mike Phillips especially!

I wouldn't have known how to tackle this beast of a job without hours of research, reading Mike's articles, reading countless discussions over pads, machines, products, etc... I'm just blown away by these results.

Hopefully I will have more opportunities like this, because as a detail nerd, this job was like a rite of passage.

What a beautiful car. Im the MAN :buffing: Im the MAN


You done did good!


Thank you for taking the time to STOP working on the car and take great pictures. Thank you also for taking the time to create this write-up on the AutogeekOnline.net forum where others will both learn from what you've shared as well as be inspired to follow in your footsteps.


Job well done. :dblthumb2:



I rarely use the bow down emoticon but you earned it.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[crg001]

Perfect technique. I know some guys teach to maintain the firm downward pressure throughout the buffing cycle - I'm NOT one of those guys. Actually never could understand their reasoning.

Here's my quote,


Polishing paint is an art form, not a grinding process -Mike Phillips



If you maintain firm pressure throughout the buffing cycle, that is from start to finish, as your abrasive technology removes paint, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad.

Spent product - that's wore out compound, polish or AIO

Removed paint - this is the result from abrading the surface


For your last few passes - why would you want to force and grind this into the paint? The better practice is to reduce your downward pressure and polish-out.


Ah... what do I know... :dunno: :laughing:



Mike, that is high praise!! :bowdown: I kind of stumbled upon that technique after starting my test spots on the trunk and finishing the rest of that area. When I moved too slowly or applied too much pressure for the whole cycle, I noticed that I was actually creating visible buffer trails of micro-marring. Afterwards, I tried making the last couple passes more of a gentle "polishing" action while still letting the G9 eat at a slightly reduced speed 5. Results finished noticeably better, and I did not want to create extra work for myself in the actual polishing phase!






I agree. Griot's did a great job with this tool. Here's what I said about it when I reviewed it when it launched.

Review: Griot's G9 - 9mm Orbit Stroke Random Orbital Polisher by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews-by-mike-phillips/124412-review-griots-g9-9mm-orbit-stroke-random-orbital-polisher-mike-phillips.html)


From the first post...





The new Griot's G9 and G8 are very capable tools.


My 3" buffer I used for the smaller sections was my old HF Chicago Electric that I converted to 3". Man, after using the G9, I honestly don't want to turn that old clunker back on ever again (served me well for ~10 yrs as a hobbyist tho!). I think the G8 will be my next tool for sure. I want to be able to use 2" pads as well, and the HF is already wildly imbalanced with 3" and will hardly rotate the pad.

I'm definitely a bit beat up after this one. My hands ached and tingled for an entire day afterwards! I imagine a rotary or a even a long-throw would be a much more efficient way to do the heavy compounding, but the tools I had got the job done!




They don't come any larger than classic Detroit Iron!

Just imagine if it had a painted ROOF! :buffing: add a few more hours to the job. :D


I'm so relieved that there is no roof on this thing!! I asked my friend about the top and he says he's never put it up and has been afraid to see what it looks like. Worked for me! :laughing:







A quality cleaner/wax like 3D Speed works great as a FINAL POLISH that seals the paint at the same time. Plus wipe-off is a breeze. A nice feature when wiping down a car that's 20' long!


3D Speed is a wonderful product, I really enjoy it's ease of use combined with it's effectiveness. Saving the wipe-off for later really makes progress easy to track and the polishing step much easier!




And now you fully understand what I'm talking about when I say,

Fibers are a form of abrasives

Fiber pads leave micro-marring in car paint. It's working backwards. But sometimes it's a nessessary evil to move forwards. :props:


I definitely understand this more now! Most jobs I've done have been one-steps on foam pads, so doing some heavy compound work definitely shows what happens at that level.





Well done. I'm impressed.

Most people don't take the time to get out a ladder and get the BEFORE shot. Then after the car's all shiny they regret it. And like I say,

After the detail, you cannot go back in time to get the before shot - so get them before you start.


I'm also glad and impressed that no one screwed up the before shot by polishing a section BEFORE getting the before shot. Having a shiny spot on an otherwise neglected hood IN the before shot ruins the before shot. Well done.



Not that you didn't think and feel this way before but after tackling this neglected single stage monster, you now have a better understanding of polishing paint as an art form. It's not just,

Step 1
Step 2
Step 3
Etc.

Besides the tools, pads and products, you put some of yourself into your work. As I like to say,

We bring the human elements of care and passion to the project and these things cannot be put into a bottle or encased in a tool chassis.



Freaking Amazing!


As my friend Jason Brennan (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-2-day-boat-detailing-classes/123331-neglected-respected-1985-cougar-tunnel-hull-extreme-makeover-autogeek.html) would say,


From neglected to respected!





You done did good!


Thank you for taking the time to STOP working on the car and take great pictures. Thank you also for taking the time to create this write-up on the AutogeekOnline.net forum where others will both learn from what you've shared as well as be inspired to follow in your footsteps.


Job well done. :dblthumb2:



I rarely use the bow down emoticon but you earned it.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Mike, THANK YOU!!! :urtheman::urtheman:

I would not have achieved these results without the guidance and knowledge from you and every one else on this forum! When you said I put a piece of myself into this work, it is absolutely true. It's like that perfect meal only Mom can make, it's made with LOVE. I am truly humbled and honored to have shared this experience on this forum, and to have the MAN himself telling ME job well done!

:thankyousign: :thankyousign:

-Colin

[2black1s]

... They don't come any larger than classic Detroit Iron!

Just imagine if it had a painted ROOF! :buffing: add a few more hours to the job. :D
...

I grew up painting and polishing these massive cars back in the 1970s. And I can tell you from experience the roof's were no fun. On the good side of the equation is that most of the cars from that era had vinyl tops on them, but not all of them.

[AllanS]

AWESOME job! Not sure if we heard what the owner had to say about: the final outcome & the paint flaking issues. If you want to get into the local classic scene, that guy may be your lead into it.

Again, great job. Thanks for a terrific documentation of the restoration.

[crg001]

AWESOME job! Not sure if we heard what the owner had to say about: the final outcome & the paint flaking issues. If you want to get into the local classic scene, that guy may be your lead into it.

Again, great job. Thanks for a terrific documentation of the restoration.

Thank you!! The owner was absolutely ecstatic! The paint flaking was an issue he was aware of, but wasn't really too concerned about. In fact, I went well beyond his expectations with the results of the car. He was honestly just expecting a small improvement like he had done on the test spot on the trunk, but I blew that part away and did it over the entire vehicle. He's a firefighter in a neighboring city, and I already have a few details lined up with some co-workers of his. No classics, but I can't wait until I get a chance to do something like this again. This was polishing nirvana :laughing: