Never see anyone discussing this line of polishes

[luckydawg]

3M
Wonder why that is ? Am I just missing the discussions on thee polishes?
As far as my exp. goes with the 3M company /label / brand, they always seem to be super high quality products and very well respected in every aspect of industry they supply. Now I know they seem to me to be a bit on the high side as far as $$ goes.

Has anyone used there line of polishes? If so I would sure like to hear some feedback from first hand exp.

[PaulMys]

I'm not quite sure.

Maybe their limited consumer (idiot-proof) line?

I know that 3M makes superior products, and that many body shops use them.

I'm sure other members will chime in..........

Good thread. :)

[Mike Hoekstra]

3M is a product that is your industry standard norm. They've been around forever but there are better products out there. Body shop guys swear by it. Detailers and custom paint guys swear by better products. Example - I custom paint helmets, etc. for customers. I was having issues with buffing out a clear coat and messages a very talented car builder I knew. He asked me what I'm using, so I sent him a pic of the product (3M compound) and pads & tools. His response "Get rid of that sh!t and buy this" with a picture of Meguiars M205 and M105. I've never looked back since.

[98CayenneTA]

3m products are absolutley amazing products. They are geared towards rotary use for sure.

If you are someone who cuts with a rotary and finishes with a da then the 3m cutting compound will cut better then anything you can do with a da.

Finish with a main stream finishing polish and da.

On a da the 3m products will still cut like no other, they just finish down like crap

[Mike Phillips]

3M makes great products.

For some reason they don't now or ever have had a strong following by the masses/enthusiasts. They OWN the body shop world.

Here's one article I wrote that talks about 3M products.


For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/70216-use-rotary-buffer-only-read-directions.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2044/Rotary_Buffer_Only_003.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2044/Rotary_Buffer_Only_004.jpg





I wrote the above article back in 2013 and to my knowledge, 3M still does NOT make a product where they have a recommendation for using it with any type or brand of orbital polisher.

I'm not saying none of their products will work with orbital polishers I'm just saying all their products do in fact recommend using them with rotary polishers. And if you run into micro-marring issues when using 3M products with orbital polishers, simply swap out to a brand with KNOWN GOOD ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY and re-polish the area and see what happens. Make sure you use a pad that has not been used with previous product. (common sense but I have to include this)


But for the record - I've see phenomenal, show car results come from nothing but 3M abrasive technology.



:buffing:

[Mike Phillips]

Also for what it's worth....


I was still working for Meguiar's when 3M purchased Meguiar's back in October of 2008. I didn't leave Meguiar's until May of 2009.

One thing I noticed was the management system they put into place for employees was the same system Hewlett-Packard used when I worked for them. This is also the system that was shared in the movie,


Office Space


If you have ever watched Office Space, there's a side-story that takes place where the 2 Bobs are brought in to help the company downsize.

The 2 Bobs

[mg]http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/office-space-what-do-you-do-here-meme.jpg[/img]



I was working for Hewlett-Packard, the Corvallis, Oregon division when this exact thing took place. People that were not ranked from 3-5 were "tapped on the shoulder" and let go. The job ranking number system was a 1 to 5 system with 1 being the lowest rung on the ladder. I was ranked a 4. I wouldn't kiss enough butt to get ranked a 5. I actually begged my Manager to let me go as I already was quitting as I had another job. (I hated working at HP, no cars), I was told "no" because I was ranked too high.

My co-workers at Hewlett-Packard remember me as the guy that parked the 1959 Cadillac or the 1966 Milk Truck in the parking lot in a sea of new cars.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/1959Flattop02.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/MilkTruckFrontView1.jpg



About 2 weeks after the "Tap on the shoulder" downsizing, I quit and went to work for a Pulp Mill driving a Wood Chip Scoop.

http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery/files/1/ScoopDriverMike01.jpg



I was luck to escape California and get out of Meguair's to come to work for Autogeek. I heard just last week... a lot of people at Meguiar's were let go... downsizing. Same management system I experienced at Hewlett-Packard.


3M makes great products, but I don't ever want to work for the 3M "business model".



:)

[Mike Phillips]

And....



Two more articles I can think of where I discuss 3M products...



Body Shop Safe Glaze on Fresh Paint - #7 Show Car Glaze (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/28659-body-shop-safe-glaze-fresh-paint-7-show-car-glaze.html)

3M Imperial Hand Glaze and Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/929/GlazeFreshPaint002.jpg






1967 Starline Deville - Extreme Makeover (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/21147-1967-starline-deville-extreme-makeover.html)


Someone asked me about the 3M Marine Line so I've taped off a section on the back of the boat to demonstrate the 3M Marine Rubbing Compound with a 8" Wool Cutting pad on the Flex Lightweight Rotary Buffer.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD038.jpg

Note that I've removed anything off the rear deck that can be removed without too much work to enable me to do the best job of restoring this 42 year old gel-coat. Plus then I can clean up the holes a little and the thread for all the stainless steel screws and re-assemble everything nice and clean.



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD039.jpg


Started with a 3M foam polishing pad (Per Manufactures instructions)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD041.jpg


While it was working okay the 8" size pads are just too big for the shape and design of the back upper surface of this boat. So I switched over to the 5.5 Hydro-Tech Tangerine Foam Polishing and kid you not, this is a smooth polishing combo that quickly removed all the haze and brought the gel-coat up to a very high gloss.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD042.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD043.jpg



Next I applied the 3M Marine Liquid Wax and because I prefer to apply all my LSP's by machine I used the Griot's Garage ROP on the 3.0 speed setting with a Meguiar's W-8006 foam polishing pad.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD044.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD048.jpg




Before

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/762/1967SD049.jpg



After

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/StarlineDeville0001.jpg




BEFORE

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/513/1967_Starline_Deville_009.jpg

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/513/1967_Starline_Deville_010.jpg




AFTER

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/513/1967_Starline_Deville_016.jpg







:)

[briarpatch]

When I worked in a body shop, 3M was all we had....along with giant pneumatic buffers and even bigger wool pads. I've not used their compounds since, but currently have their detailing clay in the cabinet.....excellent stuff.

[DUBL0WS6]

When my paint guy wetsanded my car he finished with 3M Perfect it and it didn't finish down as nice as he would have liked.

[98CayenneTA]

When my paint guy wetsanded my car he finished with 3M Perfect it and it didn't finish down as nice as he would have liked.

That can be said about any given compound/polish on any given paint.

That is definitely a very broad statement and the same can be said about a lot of compounds/polishes, situation dependent

[Mike Phillips]

See the part I made bold below





When my paint guy wetsanded my car he finished with 3M Perfect it and it didn't finish down as nice as he would have liked.




And to your point, see the part I made bold





That can be said about any given compound/polish on any given paint.

situation dependent




My experience with body shop technicians is all too often when they "finish down" it's with a rotary buffer. It's simply how too many body shops do their paint polishing.



Foam versus Fiber

If they finish down with a rotary and a soft foam finishing pad then it can look pretty good, but down the road holograms will still show up.

If they finish down with any type of fiber pad - then the paint is going to look like crap - no matter how fine the polish.



I started out in this industry calling on body shops. This was in 1987. And even though the FOAM pad was invented and introduced in 1965 - I would most of the shops I called on in Oregon, Washington and Idaho were still cutting AND finishing with wool pads. Many of the shops had NEVER seen a foam pad.


And food for thought...

If if a person does have and use a foam pad to finish with when using a rotary buffer - if that pad is not virgin clean, as in un-contaminated, it's still going to be tough to finish down nice.



:)

[2black1s]

... I started out in this industry calling on body shops. This was in 1987. And even though the FOAM pad was invented and introduced in 1965 - I would most of the shops I called on in Oregon, Washington and Idaho were still cutting AND finishing with wool pads. Many of the shops had NEVER seen a foam pad...



I can attest to that. I worked full-time in the autobody/painting industry throughout the 1970s and continued as a second profession specializing in custom and restoration work through the 1980s, 1990s, and into the early 2000s.

The first time I used a foam pad was in about 2015.

Prior to that, much of my "hologram-free" final finishing was accomplished by following all buffing cycles by a hand finishing.

Another method I used to produce hologram-free finishes was a final buff using Meguiar's #3 Machine Glaze followed by a hand application of an AIO.

Although my memory may be skewed a little, as its been a long time, the #3 with a wool finishing pad did a really good job of removing the compounding holograms. Not hiding them, but actually removing them. Then a few applications of an AIO by hand completed the process.

[Mike Phillips]

I can attest to that. I worked full-time in the autobody/painting industry throughout the 1970s and continued as a second profession specializing in custom and restoration work through the 1980s and 1990s.

The first time I used a foam pad was in about 2015.



Thanks for sharing the above.

Even today, when I think back about the 3 years I called on shops, large and small all over the Pacific Northwest I'm still amazed at how many fine folks in the body shop industry had NEVER seen a foam pad.

Back in the 1980s, the only pad I knew of was the Meguiar's foam pads, W1000, W5500 (rotary pads) and the W6000, (the first DA foam pad)
Here's my story about the first DA Foam Pads


The history behind polishing paint with a DA Polisher (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/52986-history-behind-polishing-paint-da-polisher.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1502/W6000EarlyDAPad008.jpg


Car Wax History

I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy alive that knows this history, has this stuff and also TYPES and shares PICTURES like you see in the full article I linked to above.

Barry Meguiar would know this history but he doesn't write articles or share stories like this on the Internet. I'm sure there are others that have been around long enough to know this stuff but same old story, none of the type and none of them know how to make picture magically show up on the Internet.







Prior to that, much of my "hologram-free" final finishing was accomplished by following all buffing cycles by a hand finishing.



The above would actually work. You no doubt possess the skills to "hand polish". I rarely meet anyone that actually know how to hand polish.




Another method I used to produce hologram-free finishes was a final buff using Meguiar's #3 Machine Glaze followed by a hand application of an AIO.

[/quote]


Here's an old bottle of M3 or Meguiar's Machine Glaze. The #3 was simply a wetter, and still non-abrasive version of #7 Show Car Glaze.


M03 Machine Glaze in the Cylinder Bottle, probably from the 1960's or 1970's.

I was told that cylinder bottles were chosen because the could be easily slipped into a apron pocket in the professional side of the industry...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/450_MGM3_001.jpg


More pics like the above here,

Some Vintage Meguiar's Products from my Collection (Lots of pictures) (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/24271-some-vintage-meguiar-s-products-my-collection-lots-pictures.html)






Although my memory may be skewed a little, as its been a long time, the #3 with a wool finishing pad did a really good job of removing the compounding holograms. Not hiding them, but actually removing them. Then a few applications of an AIO by hand completed the process.



#3 like #7 was VERY oily and like Liquid Ebony, (mineral oil), and even like #7, all it really does is fill light swirls and scratches in and mask them temporarily. Neither #3, #5 or #7 were abrasive or had any abrading ability.


Here's #5 New Car Glaze - this was a dryer version of #7

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/717/M05NewCarGlaze001.jpg




Any abrading ability would have come from the application material and process. Rubbing by hand maybe could have removed holograms. Pressing a fiber pad against paint - the fibers would continue to instill holograms. They might remove pre-existing holograms but they would simply replace them with new, perhaps finer holograms. That's the deal with rotary polishers.


Always like to hear your comments...


:cheers:

[DUBL0WS6]

Mike, my guy does rotary work and he's pretty good. He has about 40 years experience. The 3M Perfect it didn't finish down as nice with the 3m Purple foam pad as his regular swirl remover that he uses which is normally Presta, which advertises as being filler free. I touched up a few spots with my PC.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, my guy does rotary work and he's pretty good. He has about 40 years experience. The 3M Perfect it didn't finish down as nice with the 3m Purple foam pad as his regular swirl remover that he uses which is normally Presta, which advertises as being filler free. I touched up a few spots with my PC.




Good to hear.

Paint systems are different and always changing. Some products simply work better than others on different paint systems.

And the Porter Cable aka the PC is a CHAMPION in the car detailing world.


:cheers: