less gloss on more durable products?

[rick100]

I've been researching for while on various products and its pretty clear to me that the main gloss / show type finish comes from prepping the panel. A proper wash , decontamination and polish technique goes a long way to making a car look perfect. The final step is the paint sealant, whether you choose ceramic coatings, sealants, waxes, hybrid products, graphene , etc etc .

Here is my question , can you polish a panel with the best polish technique and a good product , make it show room quality , then apply a durable product like a ceramic coating and end up loosing some of the gloss?. I watched this video from forensic , where he was testing different products to see which one gave you more gloss and I found it odd that the most durable product ( cquartz lite) actually loss gloss . I have watched other videos where products like seal and shine also seem to loose gloss .

I found the HOLY GRAIL | The search for Detailing's Highest Gloss Product. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsCXO08Q08k)

My question is , can you actually loose gloss after applying a product, is this a characteristic of a more durable product? , are you trading some gloss for durability. This is assuming you are applying this paint sealants to a perfect polish panel.

[Stormin08]

i will add this, when doing a customer car and being asked about ceramic coatings...i always steer away from ceramic on show cars and bikes...typically the owner gets some enjoyment out of the SHINY appearance of a good fresh wax. not that a coating couldnt be topped with wax, most expect that the coating will provide that always spotless shiny finish.

[rick100]

i will add this, when doing a customer car and being asked about ceramic coatings...i always steer away from ceramic on show cars and bikes...typically the owner gets some enjoyment out of the SHINY appearance of a good fresh wax. not that a coating couldnt be topped with wax, most expect that the coating will provide that always spotless shiny finish.

would you that a coating top with wax brings back the original gloss of a freshly polished panel?

if you were to compare a freshly polish panel with some type of wax vs a freshly polish panel with ceramic + wax, would they be the same? . I remember reading on another forum that some exotic car owners preferred a wax over coatings for this exact reason

[FUNX650]

would you that a coating top with wax
brings back the original gloss of a freshly
polished panel?

•IMO: Kinda; sorta.
-Although it may appear to be as glossy for a
very limited time period, pretty soon Finishing
Waxes will start to “grey-out”...and the glossi-
ness will become muted.



if you were to compare a freshly polish
panel with some type of wax vs a freshly
polish panel with ceramic + wax, would
they be the same?

•IMO:
-Regardless if it’s Wax, Ceramic, or a combination
of both...It’s going to be hard to beat the shine/
glossiness that comes from an LSP-free, freshly
polished panel. LSPs main function is to provide
protection. Any gloss they may initially impart is
short-lived at best.


•Cliffs:
-IMO...Stacking Waxes onto Ceramics to
increase any semblance of:
“beauty is in the eye of the beholder” is an
exercise in futility; and quite spendthrifty.


•On the other hand:
-If you’re looking to increase D.O.I.,
then look no farther than Meguiar’s M26:
it’s the cats pajamas!

{Of course: YMMV}


Bob

[2black1s]

•...


•IMO:
-Regardless if it’s Wax, Ceramic, or a combination
of both...It’s going to be hard to beat the shine/
glossiness that comes from an LSP-free, freshly
polished panel. LSPs main function is to provide
protection. Any gloss they may initially impart is
short-lived at best.


•...


•On the other hand:
-If you’re looking to increase D.O.I.,
then look no farther than Meguiar’s M26:
it’s the cats pajamas!

...



On the first point I completely agree. I have never applied any LSP that increased the gloss after polishing. In my experience, application of a LSP results in gloss levels that are at best equal to, and more likely lesser than, a freshly polished panel.

In my younger days when prepping for a show, I would always finish with a glaze and that's it. 3M Fill N Glaze, Cleanbright Liquid Ebony, Meguiar's #3 / #7. Those were my go-to's. No wax or sealant. Coatings were not around yet.



On the second point, I'm not sure. I recently applied M26 (as an experiment) over a previously applied M21 on my black truck and although it looked good, and had more of the warmth associated with waxes, I think the actual gloss level, brilliance, and DOI were better with the M21. Small sample size but that was my initial impression.



I would put the M21 in the equal category to the freshly polished gloss level, while I'd have to put the M26 in the lesser category, even though only marginally less.

[acuRAS82]

Many waxes will decrease gloss. It doesn’t mean they look worse... the oils are doing their thing and you are trading gloss for a deeper, wet looking surface.

I enjoy reading gloss readings and everything, but I have never associated gloss readings with the best look on any given paint... unless my goal for that paint is to get the brightest, most bare finish. This sounds nice but there are plenty of other attributes that go with ‘look’; depth, jetting, reflections, glassy, candy, etc. a freshly polished car looks nice but also has a naked look to it. LSPs in general will change the way reflects and absorbs at the paint surface. It’s rare, if not impossible, to add something to polished/prepped clear coat and have a gloss increase... but I personally feel that the car looks it’s best after the final LSP step. Regardless of what happened it it’s gloss value.

[Loach]

As someone that has invested a large amount of time into gloss measurement testing using high quality glossmeters, I can tell you that as a measurable statistic, gloss is largely irrelevant into determining what you actually want to measure.

The most important factor is making sure that you’ve jeweled the paint to the highest level that you can through the proper abrasives. Then once you get to that point, the marginal differences between measurable gloss of products becomes less apparent. It’s difficult to boost measurable gloss beyond this point and any decrease in gloss as a result of laying down protectants afterwards is reasonable to expect just based on the residuals that they leave behind immediately after applying them. Most of the time, a simple wash is enough to bring measurable gloss levels right back up to match the gloss levels after polishing if there’s any decrease in gloss measurements immediately after applying the protectant.

I have a $2,700 glossmeter after jeweling the paint that tells me that the LSP is largely irrelevant in boosting gloss levels further beyond this point that abrasives can achieve by themselves. Rather, what you feel and see through your eyes alone is still more valuable and relevant to yourself than what the glossmeter can tell you. What your wax or sealant or coating is adding to the paint in terms of wetness or depth cannot possibly be picked up by my expensive glossmeters.

These more durable protectants like Fusso Coat, FK1000P or Collinite 476S can still maintain considerable peak measurable gloss levels especially after the first wash.

[Loach]

Too answer your question directly, the answer is easily yes. You can polish your paint to the highest degree using the finest abrasives possible, then use something heavy like Seal N Shine as your LSP and actually reduce measurable gloss levels to a significant level.

But after the first wash you can see those measurements shoot right back up to normal once you’ve cleaned off all of the heavy unbonded residuals that Seal N Shine leaves behind. This is why gloss testing is largely irrelevant to me as an actual statistic if I don’t have the peak pre-LSP jeweled readings, along with the first wash readings if I’m judging the LSP’s that I’m testing. And it can be difficult to determine the abrasive jeweled limit of your panel without further wetsanding to flatten the test area out further to improve measurable gloss.

[noorth]

Too answer your question directly, the answer is easily yes. You can polish your paint to the highest degree using the finest abrasives possible, then use something heavy like Seal N Shine as your LSP and actually reduce measurable gloss levels to a significant level.

But after the first wash you can see those measurements shoot right back up to normal once you’ve cleaned off all of the heavy unbonded residuals that Seal N Shine leaves behind. This is why gloss testing is largely irrelevant to me as an actual statistic if I don’t have the peak pre-LSP jeweled readings, along with the first wash readings if I’m judging the LSP’s that I’m testing. And it can be difficult to determine the abrasive jeweled limit of your panel without further wetsanding to flatten the test area out further to improve measurable gloss.

Hi Waxmode, i finally have a test panel. How would you describe the process of jeweling the paint, i understand you should use a soft pad and polish..? I like to give it a try!