Question for those that have used all of the machines...

[oneheadlite]

Got a chance to put polisher to paint recently, and while I was running through the process I got to wondering. I'm using a Griot's G9, and often read about how long throw polishers offer faster correction.

My question is, can anyone that's used a variety of machines help me quantify how machine choice impacts correction speed/ability?

Example: If you were to take the exact same pad and compound/polish, how would machine choice affect the required number of section passes? Thinking in regards to your standard "short throw" (let's just say 8mm), 15mm or 21mm machine. How about 5" or 6" pads if it's an option?

Does a flex offer any faster correction, or just speed via not having to contend with stalling?

For sake of conversation, lets focus on just the correction stage - I understand finishing ability can vary based on paint system, pads, liquids, etc.


I got to thinking about this as I was (finally!) doing a correction on my Audi. Due to time constraints (and giving in to the fact that it's a 235k mile daily driver), I decided to reduce my expectations for correction of heavier marks. I just wasn't going to have time to get the job done if I added in more section passes. Truth be told, I probably need heavier cutting pads if I really wanted to chase it anyway. That's probably a discussion for it's own thread anyway. I don't see myself moving to a longer throw since I'm strictly a hobbyist, it's just fun to wonder about how the grass grows on the other side of the fence.


John

[Thomkirby]

From a perspective watch some of Mike Phillip's videos on the topic, and remember he counts the passes!

The G9 compared to G15 or G21 for correction will be the same. Difference is the orbital stoke is larger for their size, 15mm or 21mm.
Each of your passes then with the larger stroke is covering more space and thus gaining on reducing passes within the section.

The Flex BEAST is still the same as your G9 (less 1mm) but will not stall. So forced rotation/forced orbit will still do the same, it is only your time lost if the machine stalls or slows over the edges and curves.

But the CORRECTION is dependent upon the abrasives in the compound, that is what is doing the work. You are just making sure it gets done.:laughing:

If you have time, take Mike's Show Car class or in 2021 take a Road Show series, you can try all the machines out! A great experience for one that has done both.

Hope this helps!

[oneheadlite]

From a perspective watch some of Mike Phillip's videos on the topic, and remember he counts the passes!

The G9 compared to G15 or G21 for correction will be the same. Difference is the orbital stoke is larger for their size, 15mm or 21mm.
Each of your passes then with the larger stroke is covering more space and thus gaining on reducing passes within the section.

The Flex BEAST is still the same as your G9 (less 1mm) but will not stall. So forced rotation/forced orbit will still do the same, it is only your time lost if the machine stalls or slows over the edges and curves.

But the CORRECTION is dependent upon the abrasives in the compound, that is what is doing the work. You are just making sure it gets done.:laughing:

If you have time, take Mike's Show Car class or in 2021 take a Road Show series, you can try all the machines out! A great experience for one that has done both.

Hope this helps!

Thomkirby - Thanks for the reply!!

I totally get all of your points - I've been reading on here a long time, so I understand the functional differences between the standard/long throw/forced machines. It's the part in bold that I'm really looking to get to the bottom of - How much of a reduction in passes? (again - every other factor remaining the same).

And yes, I know the abrasives play a huge factor in quality work (I've seen Mike P quote that thread enough times. :laughing: ), that's why for my hypothetical I'm asking with the only changing variable being the machine itself. (FWIW, I was using BOSS Fast Correcting Cream, and have used the BOSS Correcting and Perfecting Creams in the past).

Extra credit for the hypothetical is changing pad size - if a smaller pad correcting faster would actually cut down the required number of passes for the same results, even though it covers a smaller area.

[Billy Baldone]

I have a G15/G21/G9 Flex 3401 and Flex Finisher also have a PiXiE coming Thursday. as someone who turned Professional this year, I reach for the Beast just about every time. I can put a little something on it to get faster corrections because it does not stall. On big flat panels, the long throws are a good option with the Uro Fiber Oreo pads for one steps on medium paint. On soft paint the long throws are good with HDO orang pads for one steps. But when I cut with the Beast, I find myself reaching for the G9 to finish

[oneheadlite]

Thanks for your reply Billy


I don't think I did very well with my original question.

I fully get there are horses for courses. Some like flex for less stalling, some the long throws for smoother easier operation. Each can have their own personality for finishing.

What I was trying to get at with my question was: With all variables being equal - if you had a table full of all the different machines, each with the same pad, each used on the same panel (let's call it a big flat panel for simplicity's sake), each with the same high quality correcting liquid.

How would section passes compare? Example: Expect 10 passes with a short throw, 8 passes with a 15mm, 7 with a 21mm?

[WillSports3]

I think I can answer this one. The Rag Company did a test, with the same orbit level on the same kind of paint, the one to burn through the clear coat first was actually long throw. That's because the longer throw means that when each machine has their pad resting on it, the long throw moved the most compared to the rotary or the forced rotation. This is just on a flat panel, obviously rotary and forced rotation will have their advantages on curved panels and the like. The Rupes 21 ended up burning through the clear coat first on their tests. Mind you it's not 100% scientific, its a bit "redneck science." But if you take that 5 or 6 inch pad space, the one that ends up moving the most will cut fastest. In this test scenario, they had it all at the same rough OPM/RPM.

Speaking for myself, I can say that with a long throw polisher and an orange HD cutting pad, I usually end up doing about 4 passes or so. On a really trashed panel, I end up doing 5. When I used a porter cable, I usually had to do about 6 to 7 passes to have the same effect.

[Billy Baldone]

Thanks for your reply Billy


I don't think I did very well with my original question.

I fully get there are horses for courses. Some like flex for less stalling, some the long throws for smoother easier operation. Each can have their own personality for finishing.

What I was trying to get at with my question was: With all variables being equal - if you had a table full of all the different machines, each with the same pad, each used on the same panel (let's call it a big flat panel for simplicity's sake), each with the same high quality correcting liquid.

How would section passes compare? Example: Expect 10 passes with a short throw, 8 passes with a 15mm, 7 with a 21mm?

I pick the Beast. I can dig in harder, where as the other machines bog down and need more passes. I use 5'' pads across the board. I had a Black F450. I grabbed the Flex. I polished with the G9. The polishing step only took 1 1/2 hours total. Cutting was way longer. Now some people love their long throws. I was taught a technique where I just hammer down with the Beast

[TTQ B4U]

Got a chance to put polisher to paint recently, and while I was running through the process I got to wondering. I'm using a Griot's G9, and often read about how long throw polishers offer faster correction.

My question is, can anyone that's used a variety of machines help me quantify how machine choice impacts correction speed/ability?

Example: If you were to take the exact same pad and compound/polish, how would machine choice affect the required number of section passes? Thinking in regards to your standard "short throw" (let's just say 8mm), 15mm or 21mm machine. How about 5" or 6" pads if it's an option?

Does a flex offer any faster correction, or just speed via not having to contend with stalling?

For sake of conversation, lets focus on just the correction stage - I understand finishing ability can vary based on paint system, pads, liquids, etc.


I got to thinking about this as I was (finally!) doing a correction on my Audi. Due to time constraints (and giving in to the fact that it's a 235k mile daily driver), I decided to reduce my expectations for correction of heavier marks. I just wasn't going to have time to get the job done if I added in more section passes. Truth be told, I probably need heavier cutting pads if I really wanted to chase it anyway. That's probably a discussion for it's own thread anyway. I don't see myself moving to a longer throw since I'm strictly a hobbyist, it's just fun to wonder about how the grass grows on the other side of the fence.


John

Forced Rotation Flex polishers will save you 40-50% time hands-down. With forced rotation you can focus on correction and paint and not have to worry about the machine or technique nearly as much.

Feel free to Reach Out. Clear your PM inbox and I'll message you.

[vobro]

Forced rotation for me, less passes and just more efficient. I have a bunch of polishers but if I had to pick one and only one it would be the Beast