My Plan Going Forward... Can I Please Get Some Advice or Guidance From Others?

[Dreichler]

Hello,

To start, I have a 2012 Civic Si coupe in black. I have always taken good care of it for the ~7 years I have had it.

Back in March of this year, I put on a ceramic coating myself. I used cQuartz TiO2. To make a long story short, I did not wipe to the oils off from the correction stage of prep, and the coating did not bond well- leaving me with a mediocre coating.

Fast forward to now, my coating seems like it has diminished significantly, and I want to rid of it.

Here is my plan:


Wash and dry the car
Polish the car to remove ceramic coating (CarPro Reflect? Or More Abrasive?)
Remove oils with diluted isopropyl
Wash the car again
Correct areas with minor swirl marks (Meguiars M9 Swirl Remover? Or More Abrasive Like M205 or M210?)
Wash the car again
Apply a Meguiars Glaze like #7 (M0716)
Apply Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax or Chem Guys Hydroslick

I have used both of these on my other cars and like them both equally



My question is- will CarPro Reflect be abrasive enough to remove the coating? It is only a few months old. Do I need something stronger? Also, is it necessary to polish the car again in order to remove any swirls? Or will the swirls come out with the first polishing to remove the coating? I feel like I am taking the right steps but just want to make sure by having someone double-check and read over my plan.

I appreciate any help! Thanks!

[scv2005]

No luck making it up to Stuart? I was kind of hoping it was going to be a on line video course! What machine are you using?

I am going to suggest what I would do because I know it works....

Why risk is the coating gone or not.... M105 followed by 205, nobody will be able to say for sure it is fully corrected after, inspect and adjust accordingly. When you get it where you are happy do an IPA wipe, inspect and move on....

Each to his own, I have never had much of a need for Glaze after a 105/205 combo but the paint will tell the story...

Keep us posted!

[Dreichler]

No luck making it up to Stuart? I was kind of hoping it was going to be a on line video course! What machine are you using?

I am going to suggest what I would do because I know it works....

Why risk is the coating gone or not.... M105 followed by 205, nobody will be able to say for sure it is fully corrected after, inspect and adjust accordingly. When you get it where you are happy do an IPA wipe, inspect and move on....

Each to his own, I have never had much of a need for Glaze after a 105/205 combo but the paint will tell the story...

Keep us posted!

Mike has reached out to me and I have reached out to him, but as for now, we have no exact date as my hood was just repainted and will need 30 days before anything is put onto it. Also, I work in a hospital so my schedule is not very easy to go up there on a Tuesday. I still want to, but need to figure out when and what we would do.

Also, using a Griots Random Orbital. I also have the Swirl Killer though. What pads would you suggest?

[scv2005]

Got ya... Hard for me to say as I really only use Rupes and even within that system I pretty much stick to wool and yellow foam depending on what I need to cut and finish down a white foam pad...
Again just my thought, it has some form of a coating on it correct? I would probably go wool or microfiber to rid myself of it, The hood was coated after the painting? And its all not even 30 days old? No clue what to try, not sure I would want to rip into fresh paint with either...

[Dreichler]

Got ya... Hard for me to say as I really only use Rupes and even within that system I pretty much stick to wool and yellow foam depending on what I need to cut and finish down a white foam pad...
Again just my thought, it has some form of a coating on it correct? I would probably go wool or microfiber to rid myself of it, The hood was coated after the painting? And its all not even 30 days old? No clue what to try, not sure I would want to rip into fresh paint with either...

The hood was not coated after. Hood was just repainted and left at that- it is bare right now. I just have to wait 30 days before applying anything.

In regard to the M105, I'm not sure if I need something so aggressive. I am not sure how much clear coat there is as I have corrected this car a few times over the years.

[Rsurfer]

The hood was not coated after. Hood was just repainted and left at that- it is bare right now. I just have to wait 30 days before applying anything.

In regard to the M105, I'm not sure if I need something so aggressive. I am not sure how much clear coat there is as I have corrected this car a few times over the years.

I'm surprised that Mike did not recommend you doing a test spot with the least aggressive pad and polish first.

[The Guz]

My question is- will CarPro Reflect be abrasive enough to remove the coating? It is only a few months old. Do I need something stronger? Also, is it necessary to polish the car again in order to remove any swirls? Or will the swirls come out with the first polishing to remove the coating? I feel like I am taking the right steps but just want to make sure by having someone double-check and read over my plan.

I appreciate any help! Thanks!

Test spot is your friend. If you are removing paint defects you are removing coating.


I will give you my thoughts.

Wash and dry the car - Might as well give it a decon as well
Polish the car to remove ceramic coating (CarPro Reflect? Or More Abrasive?)- Do a test spot. See my comment up above
Remove oils with diluted isopropyl - This is fine. A panel wipe product will give you more lubricity
Wash the car again - No reason to if you already wiped it down. A bit of a waste of time.
Correct areas with minor swirl marks (Meguiars M9 Swirl Remover? Or More Abrasive Like M205 or M210?) - Test spot
Wash the car again Again why? This is a wasted step if you have already polished and prep wiped
Apply a Meguiars Glaze like #7 (M0716) - No need as it does not benefit clear coat. You are now reintroducing oils back onto the paint to not allow the the LSP in your next step below
Apply Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax or Chem Guys Hydroslick - You are on your own here as you use what you like.


Don't over complicate the prep process. Seeing as you are going through all of this I would just recoat with a coating lite product. But that is just me.

[acuRAS82]

With what Guz is saying, do your test spot with the main goal of finding what corrects your finish with least aggression. Start on an area that you know has moderate swirls. If Reflect corrects those, great.. Reflect the whole car then panel wipe then LSP.

If Reflect isn’t removing the swirls to your satisfaction, move more aggressive and see if that does. Whatever you end up using to correct paint will obviously remove coating, there’s no point in doing a separate step for ‘coating removal’.

But keep in your head that whatever you polish with to correct paint will also remove the coating in irder to remove clear coat. Once finished, panel wipe then LSP. Glazes are working backwards as Guz mentioned.

[Coatingsarecrack]

I removed month old cquk3 with CP Essence and eith a green Lake Country CCS pad or a yellow Boss pad by hand. A lifht cutting pad and polish should be fine or the most aggressive you should start testing with


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[Mike Phillips]

No luck making it up to Stuart? I was kind of hoping it was going to be a on line video course! What machine are you using?







Mike has reached out to me and I have reached out to him, but as for now, we have no exact date as my hood was just repainted and will need 30 days before anything is put onto it.





So here's the update,

Permission has been given to have you and your car here for a Tuesday video. The purpose of the video would be to,


Walk through the process used.
Identify any issues
Walk through the new process
Perform the process to the hood



After the video - I'm happy to stay late and help redo the entire car. And just to point out for anyone that likes to complain that videos only show hoods being worked on. We recently shot a video and showed or demonstrated on the ENTIRE car.


https://youtu.be/S5ej_Dhb5nM



For teaching purposes - a table works great. If you think about it - the hood is like a table.


But "yes" we would end up duplicating the entire process to the entire car. And the reason we don't want to do the entire car first, (before we go live at 3:00pm), is because in so doing - we'll lose a lot of the spontaneity that WILL come from doing this type of thing live.

Been there done that as much as anyone and probably more than anyone.



Also - the new paint on the hood - that is a "wait for 30 days" situation. I understand modern clearcoats are chemically cured i.e. catalyzed, BUT - there's not a SINGLE paint manufacturer in the market that states they endorse, instruct or recommend SEALING their paint system until at least 30 days cure time passes.

I also have more articles on this topic than anyone breathing so I'm pretty confident in that of which I speak.


So it's up to you - you can proceed on your own or IF you can get out of work on a Tuesday you are invited to come to Autogeek.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Hello,

To start, I have a 2012 Civic Si coupe in black. I have always taken good care of it for the ~7 years I have had it.

Back in March of this year, I put on a ceramic coating myself. I used cQuartz TiO2. To make a long story short, I did not wipe to the oils off from the correction stage of prep, and the coating did not bond well- leaving me with a mediocre coating.

Fast forward to now, my coating seems like it has diminished significantly, and I want to rid of it.

Here is my plan:


Wash and dry the car
Polish the car to remove ceramic coating (CarPro Reflect? Or More Abrasive?)
Remove oils with diluted isopropyl
Wash the car again
Correct areas with minor swirl marks (Meguiars M9 Swirl Remover? Or More Abrasive Like M205 or M210?)
Wash the car again
Apply a Meguiars Glaze like #7 (M0716)
Apply Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax or Chem Guys Hydroslick





The above is way too complicated.





[I]My question is-

will CarPro Reflect be abrasive enough to remove the coating? It is only a few months old. Do I need something stronger?



My guess would be "yes" but I would NEED to do a Test Spot and make sure there's no MICRO-MARRING taking place. Honda's typically have very soft paint.





Also, is it necessary to polish the car again in order to remove any swirls?



Yes but also to create a perefect finish to apply the coating to.






Or will the swirls come out with the first polishing to remove the coating?



Yes. You only need to polish the car ONCE and get everything done with this first polishing step. The key is always

The TEST SPOT







The hood was not coated after. Hood was just repainted and left at that- it is bare right now. I just have to wait 30 days before applying anything.



And what day are we on as of today, Tuesday, July 21st?






In regard to the M105, I'm not sure if I need something so aggressive. I am not sure how much clear coat there is as I have corrected this car a few times over the years.



I think M105 would be a tick on the too aggressive side myself. I've owned a back Honda Pilot once in my life, and my experience was incredibly soft paint.






I'm surprised that Mike did not recommend you doing a test spot with the least aggressive pad and polish first.



I just haven't gotten to it yet. Look at my "Posting History" for any given day and then look at the volume of NEW content I create and this is why I wear out keyboards. :)


Michael aka The Guz, did a great job of breaking down your proposed process and I agree with everything he stated.





Test spot is your friend. If you are removing paint defects you are removing coating.


I will give you my thoughts.

Wash and dry the car - [B]Might as well give it a decon as well
Polish the car to remove ceramic coating (CarPro Reflect? Or More Abrasive?)- Do a test spot. See my comment up above
Remove oils with diluted isopropyl - This is fine. A panel wipe product will give you more lubricity
Wash the car again - No reason to if you already wiped it down. A bit of a waste of time.
Correct areas with minor swirl marks (Meguiars M9 Swirl Remover? Or More Abrasive Like M205 or M210?) - Test spot
Wash the car again Again why? This is a wasted step if you have already polished and prep wiped
Apply a Meguiars Glaze like #7 (M0716) - No need as it does not benefit clear coat. You are now reintroducing oils back onto the paint to not allow the the LSP in your next step below
Apply Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax or Chem Guys Hydroslick - You are on your own here as you use what you like.


Don't over complicate the prep process. Seeing as you are going through all of this I would just recoat with a coating lite product. But that is just me.




All kinds of ways to go with this,

1: Skip the coating and KISS or Keep it Simple Simon - use BF One Step, top with BF BlackIce - stick a fork in it and call it done.

2: Use the toughest coating out there and cross your fingers and then - learn to wash carefully.

3: Use a "lite" coating product and cross your fingers and then - learn to wash carefully.



Here's the real issue,

Because this car is BLACK and parked outside 7 days a week, 24 hours a day - I think it's going to be really difficult to maintain a showroom new appearance no matter what brand of coating you use.

Especially in light of constant rain or in other words - constant water spots on the paint. Water spots is a tough issue. I cover this here,


What's in the water? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/126292-whats-water.html)



So - go with a coating or stick to a REAL simple process that's easy for your to repeat over and over again or anytime you want to restore that just detailed look and that is to use the BLACKFIRE One Step over the entire car and then top with something. BLACKFIRE BlackIce would be my choice, but SONAX PNS would also be a great topper.



:)

[Dreichler]

The above is way too complicated.




My guess would be "yes" but I would NEED to do a Test Spot and make sure there's no MICRO-MARRING taking place. Honda's typically have very soft paint.




Yes but also to create a perefect finish to apply the coating to.





Yes. You only need to polish the car ONCE and get everything done with this first polishing step. The key is always

The TEST SPOT






And what day are we on as of today, Tuesday, July 21st?





I think M105 would be a tick on the too aggressive side myself. I've owned a back Honda Pilot once in my life, and my experience was incredibly soft paint.





I just haven't gotten to it yet. Look at my "Posting History" for any given day and then look at the volume of NEW content I create and this is why I wear out keyboards. :)


Michael aka The Guz, did a great job of breaking down your proposed process and I agree with everything he stated.





All kinds of ways to go with this,

1: Skip the coating and KISS or Keep it Simple Simon - use BF One Step, top with BF BlackIce - stick a fork in it and call it done.

2: Use the toughest coating out there and cross your fingers and then - learn to wash carefully.

3: Use a "lite" coating product and cross your fingers and then - learn to wash carefully.



Here's the real issue,

Because this car is BLACK and parked outside 7 days a week, 24 hours a day - I think it's going to be really difficult to maintain a showroom new appearance no matter what brand of coating you use.

Especially in light of constant rain or in other words - constant water spots on the paint. Water spots is a tough issue. I cover this here,


What's in the water? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/126292-whats-water.html)



So - go with a coating or stick to a REAL simple process that's easy for your to repeat over and over again or anytime you want to restore that just detailed look and that is to use the BLACKFIRE One Step over the entire car and then top with something. BLACKFIRE BlackIce would be my choice, but SONAX PNS would also be a great topper.



:)


Hi Mike,

As of today (Wednesday 07/22/20), paint has been on the hood for 6 days- tomorrow (Thursday 07/23/20) will be one week.

I still would like to make it up to Stuart, but if I cannot get out of work during these times- I may do this myself-- the hospital can be demanding during these times. If I end up doing it myself, I will probably ultimately finish with a good wax rather than a ceramic coating simply because I do not mind applying a wax however often and whenever necessary- I find it enjoyable.

But, if I am able to make it up there on a Tuesday, I would love to work with you. I really am just not sure when it would be possible.

As of right now, I am thinking of performing the removal and correction with M205, and then using either the BlackFire you suggested or stick with my Meg's Hybrid Ceramic Wax simply because I have 4 other vehicles with it and it works very well.

Also, do you think a claying process will be necessary at some point in the process?

Thanks, Connor