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View Full Version : LIVE Detailing Class: Will this buff out?



Mike Phillips
07-13-2020, 02:32 PM
LIVE Detailing Class: Will this buff out? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/live-detailing-classes-how-to-videos-with-mike-phillips-and-yancy-martinez/126985-live-detailing-class-will-buff-out.html)





How deep is too deep?


https://youtu.be/3CZgE28gjoE





We have the perfect demo car. This is a co-workers car and it has the all too familiar scratches in the trunk lid that look like someone set something on the trunk lid and then dragged it off.





What do you think? Too deep to buff out?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/Malibu_03.jpg



These scratches are on the top of the trunk lid on this Malibu

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/Malibu_02.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/Malibu_01.jpg





:)

Spikey Mike
07-13-2020, 02:34 PM
I'm looking forward to it. I have been looking at Defelsko paint mil gauges. We use them daily at work, but not sure it's something I need immediately, or after I do more details.

Mike Phillips
07-13-2020, 02:40 PM
More...

We will also be going over how to use a Paint Thickness Gauge

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=108104




All about the Defelsko Paint Thickness Gauge by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/104055-all-about-defelsko-paint-thickness-gauge-mike-phillips.html)


:)

Mike Phillips
07-13-2020, 02:41 PM
More...

This topic, how far to buff? Comes up often enough that recently I wrote an article on it.

When to stop buffing - Or - How far should you go to remove swirls and scratches? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/125038-when-stop-buffing-how-far-should-you-go-remove-swirls-scratches.html)



:)

Mike Phillips
07-13-2020, 02:42 PM
And yes more.....

We will also be going over the best practice of doing a Test Spot.


The two reasons WHY you should always do a Test Spot before buffing out any car (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/124202-two-reasons-why-you-should-always-do-test-spot-before-buffing-out-any-car.html)

The value of a Test Spot

Years ago, I started using the term Test Spot on the Internet, back when the first car detailing discussion forum was created. I'm sure I'm not the first guy to figure out to "test" a process to one small area before buffing out an entire car but I can document I am the first guy to coin the term and make it popular via the Internet.

No big deal, I just tend to share what I call, car detailing history in all it's forms on this forum and other social media platforms including my classes. Some people find it fun and interesting how we got to where we are today from when car detailing started with the invention of the car. I also cover this in my how-to book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine.

Here's the thing about a Test Spot. You're NEVER so good at paint correction that you don't need to do one. Never. I always do a Test Spot to any car I've never worked on before. Always. The only time I might skip a Test Spot is if I've already worked on the car previously and in most cases I'm going to use the same products, pads and tools. Thus nothing has changed.



What the Test Spot shows you

I'm typing this out and may turn this into a dedicated article because I often see people recommend to others to do a Test Spot and I see people talk about Test Spots, but I rarely see anyone explain the two reasons as to WHY to do a test spot. So I'm going to share that here.


1: To dial in a process that gets the job done to your expectations

A Test Spot will show you whether your choice of product, pad, tool and technique will remove the defects to your satisfaction while leaving behind a finish that meets your requirements and satisfaction. Now the quality of results can be different for different cars and different people.


For example,


Production Detailing or Daily Driver Detailing

If you're doing production detailing, using a one-step cleaner/wax also called an AIO or All-in-One, you probably are not trying to remove 100% of the swirls and scratches so you won't be as picky about the results from your Test Spot as someone doing show car work.


High-end Paint Correction or Show Car Detailing

If you're going to prep a car for display at a car show like SEMA or TV, or you're installing the latest 11h hardness Ceramic Paint Coating and the package you sell including removing all the removable paint defects, then your Test Spot will show you if you are in fact removing 99.9% of the defects - or not.


So a Test Spot is used to show you if your choice of product, pad, tool and technique are removing the defects to your satisfaction level and expectations. If it's not, then before you buff out the entire car you do a second Test Spot only for this second Test Spot you alter something in the process. For example if you're not removing enough of the removable defects you could switch to a more aggressive product, or more aggressive pad or a more powerful tool and possibly change all 3 of these things. You could also modify your technique, for example shrink the size of your work area down, that is buff a smaller section of paint or make more section passes over the paint. The BIG PICTURE is to find a way to remove more paint faster to more efficiently level the surface - without of course, buffing through the paint.

The above is the first half of the answer as to WHY to do a Test Spot.



2: To figure out the least aggressive approach


The second half of the answer, and this is the part that most people either don't know or understand or they simply cannot explain it or verbalize it and that is,


Use the least aggressive approach to get the job done


The words get the job done means what I explained above, that is remove the defects to your expectations and satisfaction. The part about using the least aggressive product, this is the part the people can't or don't explain. I'm sure they understand why at some level it's just not everyone is good at speaking what they mean or in the case of a forum, Facebook, comments on YouTube, when talking in person, they don't include the actual heart of the matter as to why to test and when testing, using the least aggressive process to get the job done.

Here's why,

To leave the most paint on the car


Simple huh? Sure it's simple but I've been in this industry all my life now and I NEVER hear some say or explain this portion of the reason to do a Test Spot or use the least aggressive process to get the job done and I also never see anyone type it anywhere.

So in case you didn't know, the reason you do a Test Spot is to dial in a process that removes the defects to your satisfaction while leaving the most paint on the car..

Paint is thin, especially factory paint. A custom paint job will tend to be thicker. Even so, no matter what type of car you're working on, production car with factory paint or a custom car with a custom paint job, as a professional you still approach the paint correction process the same way, you do a Test Spot and dial-in a process that removes the defects to your satisfaction level or expectations while leaving the most paint on the car.



That's the two reasons why you should ALWAYS do a Test Spot to a car before buffing it out.




:)

Mike Phillips
07-14-2020, 01:22 PM
:bump:



Here's a video I just shot to show the topics we'll cover today.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_011.JPG (https://www.facebook.com/Mike.Phillips.Autogeek/videos/958720137926028/)


Check it out.... we go live in about 35 minutes as I type...



:)

Mike Phillips
07-14-2020, 01:24 PM
More...


Here's some pictures I just took as Yancy and I are setting up....


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_001.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_002.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_003.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_004.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_005.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_006.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_007.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_008.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_009.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/4062/How-Deep_010.JPG

Mike Phillips
07-14-2020, 04:04 PM
:updated:


Just added the YouTube video to the first post in this thread.




:)

PaulMys
07-14-2020, 07:00 PM
Yancy is awesome! Lol

Another GREAT video, boys. :)

Thomkirby
07-14-2020, 07:35 PM
Very good topic and the perfect car as example. I could see that Mike was relaxed after his vacation time, came back with smiles and lots of banter with Yancy. Suggested video and good tips on the Defelsko paint thickness gauge.

Skoob
07-14-2020, 08:13 PM
I just wanted to say thanks for doing these online videos. It has been such a wonderful distraction with all the things going on to learn something new and see new products.
Keep up the good work!

Halon
07-15-2020, 10:46 AM
Great video. Just watched it this morning, thank you!

One part I paid attention to was when you were describing the Griots system design. So for say a basic 1 step-correction type of packaged (i.e. one correction step, followed by a separate single protection step), I could essentially just have those three correction creams, do a test spot, choose my weapon and do the whole car. Then what I think I heard you say was after that single correction step, you just follow it up with a final protectant step (you mentioned the Griots final polish and seal cream/AIO). For one step correction packages, after I perform the correction I tend to use a simple spray on protection product for time/ease of use for daily drivers (something like a Seal n Shine type of product). Do you feel that all of these correction creams, including the heaviest cut, typically leaves a good enough surface to go straight to the final sealer, again assuming the final sealer is not buffer applied?

I'm a novice and actually have been moving over the the Griots system (G8 & G9, and I've used up my m105 & m205 and have purchased the Griots BOSS creams instead now from you guys, however I use the LC foam pads). I probably won't get quite as nice of results with a shorter throw machine, but still pretty good, and I love how Griot's just keeps it fairly simple taking a lot of the guess work out of it for part timers like me who don't have the capacity to want to try a hundred different products/processes.

Thanks again!

Mike Phillips
07-15-2020, 02:33 PM
Great video. Just watched it this morning, thank you!



Thanks for watching. :)





One part I paid attention to was when you were describing the Griots system design.

So for say a basic 1 step-correction type of packaged (i.e. one correction step, followed by a separate single protection step),



I would call this a 2-step package. You're doing 2 things to the paint. One of them is the correction step the other the protection step.

A 1-step package would be using an AIO. :)






I could essentially just have those three correction creams, do a test spot, choose my weapon and do the whole car. Then what I think I heard you say was after that single correction step, you just follow it up with a final protectant step (you mentioned the Griots final polish and seal cream/AIO).



Correct. And that is what I said in the video.






For one step correction packages, after I perform the correction I tend to use a simple spray on protection product for time/ease of use for daily drivers (something like a Seal n Shine type of product). Do you feel that all of these correction creams, including the heaviest cut, typically leaves a good enough surface to go straight to the final sealer, again assuming the final sealer is not buffer applied?



No. Not always. It TOTALLY depends on the hardness or softness of the paint. If you're working on soft paint and the first step process is leaving micro-marring then you must or should do a second polishing step using a less aggressive product and pad to remove the micro-marring. That's where the Griot's Finishing Sealant comes into play.

If the paint is hard - then you can usually get away with doing one step using aggressive products (that use GREAT ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY), and then seal the paint.


This is why you always do a TEST SPOT. You should know if the paint is hard or soft after your first Test Spot and then you'll know how to proceed. If you're doing this for money you need to have "packages" and you sell your customer the package that fits them, their budget and their car.

More defect removal means more time means higher package.






I'm a novice and actually have been moving over the the Griots system (G8 & G9, and I've used up my m105 & m205 and have purchased the Griots BOSS creams instead now from you guys, however I use the LC foam pads).



All good stuff.






I probably won't get quite as nice of results with a shorter throw machine, but still pretty good,



I completely disagree. I love short throw or short stroke machines like the Porter Cable and Griot's G6 and now G9

With short stroke there's another benefit - less pad stalling. See my article here,

The ghosting footprint and the actual footprint - Long Stroke Free Spinning Orbital Polishers (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2018-new-car-detailing-how-to-article-by-mike-phillips/120523-ghosting-footprint-actual-footprint-long-stroke-free-spinning-orbital-polishers.html)

Remember? I showed this in this video only I was holding the tool in the air with JUST the backing plate facing the camera.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3603/ghosting_0004.jpg








and I love how Griot's just keeps it fairly simple taking a lot of the guess work out of it for part timers like me who don't have the capacity to want to try a hundred different products/processes.

Thanks again!


You're welcome. Thanks for watching and as I also mentioned in this video - a bunch of us left Meguiar's.

I landed here and about 4, 5 maybe 6 guys from Meguiar's landed at Griot's. Jason Rose left Meguiar's and ended up at RUPES.


Change is good.



:)

Mike Phillips
07-16-2020, 06:36 AM
Yancy is awesome! Lol

Another GREAT video, boys. :)




Thank you sir!






Very good topic and the perfect car as example.

I could see that Mike was relaxed after his vacation time, came back with smiles and lots of banter with Yancy. Suggested video and good tips on the Defelsko paint thickness gauge.



Thank you sir!






I just wanted to say thanks for doing these online videos.

It has been such a wonderful distraction with all the things going on to learn something new and see new products.

Keep up the good work!




Thank you sir and share with your friends.



:)