Questions about machine polishing

[Epilogts]

Polisher and products for Hard Paint?


Our family owns an Audi and VW with hard paint and I’m recently ‘retired’ and now have the time to get into polishing. I own a HF polisher and a pile of LC pads that has done basic duty for me in the past but would like to up my game.


I’ve been looking hard at the new Griots G15 as it seems like a good starter machine, with a good cross between throw and power...


What would the forum gurus recommend for a polisher, compounds and pads.


I have been reading quite a bit and it seems like my old polishes are ‘old tech’... I have the following Meguiar’s D300 Microfiber correction compound, D302 MF polish, Menzerna SF3500 and MCP2500.


After reading the forums for a while is sounds like something like 3D One, Carpro Reflect, Sonax PF, or Scholls S40 may be a better choice for performance and ease of use (keeping in mind that the vehicles I work on have been well kept and just require light polishing/refining(jeweling).

Any suggestions on equipment, pads, polish would be greatly appreciated.


Cheers

[Mike Phillips]

I would consider the Griot's G9 as an upgrade to your HF polisher.

You could use all the pads and product you already own.


:)

[Epilogts]

Thanks for the suggestion Mike.

I converted my HF over to 5.5” pads so that’s all I have which is another reason why I was staying away from the G9, plus I’d like to try a Long Throw(semi at 15mm) polisher. Am I being foolish?

[WillSports3]

Nothing wrong with a long throw. From using a Rotary, to a regular D/A to a long throw, I feel worlds better after using a long throw. Plus, I find a long throw polisher forces you to refine your technique which is one of the things I enjoy.

[Epilogts]

So I ordered:
Polish
Reflect
Scholl S40 (Carpro said it wouldn’t work as well with a DA...)

Pads
Scholl’s Honey spider pads
Rupes Yellow(recommended by CarPro)
LC hydro red, in addition to the LC orange and white I already had.

Hopefully this will be a good mix for finishing out my hard paint...

[WillSports3]

Scholl S40 works perfectly fine with a long throw DA.

[Desertnate]

I would consider the Griot's G9 as an upgrade to your HF polisher.

You could use all the pads and product you already own.


:)

Do long throw polishers require a different type of pad?

I too am looking at upgrading my HF DA to the G15, but hadn't thought about my stock of LC Flat and Thin Pro pads not working. In my grand plan the HF would be converted to a 3" polisher and sealant/wax applicator.

OP: If you ever are in the hunt again for a polish, I've found the Blackfire polish and compound work well on hard paint as does Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover. All of which can be used depending on the level of correction is needed. My go-to combo was Blackfire Compound on a white Lake Country Thin Pro pad.

[Epilogts]

OP: If you ever are in the hunt again for a polish, I've found the Blackfire polish and compound work well on hard paint as does Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover. All of which can be used depending on the level of correction is needed. My go-to combo was Blackfire Compound on a white Lake Country Thin Pro pad.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will add to my list for next time.

[Epilogts]

Scholl S40 works perfectly fine with a long throw DA.

Good to hear, I will be giving it a shot.

[Epilogts]

So I ordered:
Polish
Reflect
Scholl S40 (Carpro said it wouldn’t work as well with a DA...)

Pads
Scholl’s Honey spider pads
Rupes Yellow(recommended by CarPro)
LC hydro red, in addition to the LC orange and white I already had.

Hopefully this will be a good mix for finishing out my hard paint...

Found this suggestion somewhere else:
Application:

For best results use Scholl Concepts white Spider Pad or Navy blue Spider pad.
After spreading across 2-2.5 Ft area on low speed, work at speed 4-5 applying moderate pressure through the first half of the cycle.
Next use progressively lighter pressure until finished down. Machine speed varies based on machine and paint.
Once completed, buff off the faint residue using our Yellow Fellow microfiber towel.
Clean pad
Use only 3-5 pea size drops for each additional section (depending on pad size), repeating steps 2-5 after each section.

[Epilogts]

So I ordered:
Polish
Reflect
Scholl S40 (Carpro said it wouldn’t work as well with a DA...)

Pads
Scholl’s Honey spider pads
Rupes Yellow(recommended by CarPro)
LC hydro red, in addition to the LC orange and white I already had.

Hopefully this will be a good mix for finishing out my hard paint...

Scholl Concepts NEO Honey Spider Pad is a fine, porous pad designed for use with S20 Black on soft paintwork, for high gloss hologram-free finishing and for efficient application of NEO Polymer Protection by machine.

Hmmm, better for soft paint

[Epilogts]

More Scholl’s honey info...
The cut level of these pads falls between a Lake Country Hydro-Tech Crimson, and a Scholl Concepts Orange pad (Which is itself a little milder than an LC HT Tangerine pad.). They do provide a useful amount of cut to help remove marring from more aggressive compounding steps, unlike the soft open-cell foams many associate with ‘finishing pads’. Due to their design, however, they are capable of maxing-out the finishing potential of polishes to a much greater extent.

[Epilogts]

For S40
You can use pressures ranging from absolute zero, to maximum with a free-rotation 8mm DA when using Scholl, and need to depending on the stage of the set and that required by the defects at hand. So too, can the travel speed change within a spectrum.

When spreading the polish for the initial pass, I would suggest using the weight of the machine alone. After this is accomplished, you can bump-up speed, and apply as much pressure as is needed. If you want to adjust the aggression of your pad/polish combo downwards, you can continue using the weight of the machine. If you want to truly maximize it, though, apply as much pressure as the machine can handle while still maintaining 1-2 RPM's per second of the backing plate. One can also use anything in between; how much pressure to use exactly requires some practice. If you're using less pressure than maximum, you might also want to increase your passes by 1-2 over what I listed, as the reduced friction will cause the product to break down just a little slower.

For the final pass at speed one, I'd recommend machine weight, or one machine weight pass, followed by one at absolute zero... Whereby one lifts the machine to take its weight off of the pad, and lets it free-spin, while still keeping it level with the paint. This takes practice, but can help in finishing down on very sensitive paints/plastics.

As for travel speed, again, this depends. Generally, the approximately 1-inch per second arm speed rule of thumb applies very nicely on 8mm free-throw DA's, in regards to Scholl. However, on more heat sensitive surfaces this can be increased to 2+ inches per second, and on harder paints, you can shrink your polishing area from the standard 18X18 inch zone with a 5.5" pad, to 12X12, prime the pad more heavily, and polish at even less than 1-inch per second for greater correction.

There are always lots of ways to adjust your technique to change your results to fit the application... Furthermore, all of the Scholl polishes themselves are a little different. All of them hold onto their primary abrasive size for different levels of time before diminishing. All of them have a different 'sweet spot' when it's best to stop polishing. Depending on the tool/pad you're using, the nature of the paint, and your pressure/speed, the number of passes you take and your arm travel speeds change. This sounds complicated to try to figure out in the field, but it really isn't...

Scholl polishes/compounds will tell you what to do, and when you need to do it. You can feel the transition point when the abrasives have started to break apart, and moments later are fully broken down... You feel the point when the polish loses friction, and goes smooth under the pad. This is more obvious with the more aggressive products (It's easier to feel with S17+ rather than S40.), but even on the mildest ones can be detected... You won't see it, because the lube will look the same. You'll feel it... It's not a feeling that will smack you in the face (It's more noticeable with some pads/machines than others... It's real easy to feel on rotaries, with the compounds. Less so on a forced rotation DA, with the finishing polishes.), so you have to let your mind/hands relax to sense it, and stay focused, but it's always there... Once you feel that transition, lighten up, and just ride out that finishing cycle... How long you ride the finishing cycle depends on various factors. There's a 'sweet spot' of when to stop. Figuring out that 'sweet spot' is more about practice than any feedback you'll get. You get a feel for the timing... How long is 'too long', when the swarf starts to do more harm, than running the finishing leg out can keep doing good.

Another note... My technique with Scholl was developed mainly on very soft, very sticky paint, that was very unforgiving. These paints require exacting timing and pressure control... Medium or harder paints are much more forgiving, and you won't see the differences in finish quality by running the polishes a pass or two too long or too short, that you will on soft finishes. If your paints aren't that problematic, realize you have some wiggle room... Play by the numbers if you can't play by feel... You're not going to get spanked for it like you will on the soft stuff. On 'normal' spectrum paints, you can just get the basic concept of how these products break down, and relax to a certain degree. It's when you're in an extreme situation that you have to maximize every ounce of what these polishes can achieve, that you need to get REALLY HARDCORE about having your timing/pressure transitions being perfect. Otherwise, you've got some margin of error to play with.

[Epilogts]

Ok, hit the lady’s grey GTI with the HF polisher and Scholl’s S40 and Reflect on a Scholl’s honey pad.

I wanted it to add some good gloss, not sure if it is the hard paint or what, but neither seemed to do much... I did about 4 passes, and although it looks good it doesn’t have any crazy reflectivity. Perhaps my expectations are to high for factory clear coat?

[Desertnate]

Four passes really isn't all that much. I typically do 6~8. A lot of it depends on the product and how it works. Also, grey like other lighter colors, is really hard to get amazing reflectivity like you'd see from darker colors.

One of the most maddening things for me was working on my old metallic grey Mazda3. I could get it shiny, but no where near the reflectivity of black or other dark colors.