Putting a 6" Backing Plate on a machine purchased with a 5" backing plate (Possible?)

[MartyK]

Hi Mike

Hope you are well mate

Just a quick question.

Firstly look at these:

Shine Mate 15mm Polisher

– Waxit Car Care (https://www.waxit.com.au/collections/shine-mate/products/shine-mate-15mm-polisher) (This is the one I have)

Shine Mate EX610 21mm Polisher

– Waxit Car Care (https://www.waxit.com.au/collections/shine-mate/products/shine-mate-21mm-polisher)

The one I have comes with a 6 inch backing plate. Both machines above ^ are 500W.

Will it be any problem if I purchase a 6" backing plate to put on the machine I got?

Cheers Mike! :D

[Mike Phillips]

Will it be any problem if I purchase a 6" backing plate to put on the machine I got?




Probably not.

In my opinion, but keep in mind I have not used this tool, I think putting a larger backing plate on a 15mm free spinning long stroke polisher will TAX the machine to maintain pad rotation.

All you can do is try.


Also - see my article here,

The Air Test - Using NON RUPES pads on RUPES Polishers by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/103119-air-test-using-non-rupes-pads-rupes-polishers-mike-phillips.html)


Because MaxShine tools are copies of RUPES tools, any article I write about RUPES tools will apply to MaxShine long stroke tools.




:)

[MartyK]

Before posting this message above ^^ on here, I got a reply from the Shine mate co who have confirmed what you said basically. Saying it stresses the machine.

Sent you a PM but I thought its probably best to put it here so others can also get your helpful advice...

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3M Trizact sandpaper here in Australia is very limited and can only be purchased as 3" or 6" sanding pads for machines. I know you said on your post to me its basically grinding if I do this.

This now means I have to get 3M Sanding sheets from the USA which are INCREDIBLY expensive for shipping.

For an example someone wants $152 for a single sheet of 3000 Grit 3M Trizact. No way am I gonna pay that lol.

So I wondered if instead of using 3M Trizact if I can use any other 3000 Grit sandpaper?

In fact, what grits sandpapers would you suggest? I do have a remaining sheet of 3000 Grit 3M Trizact from the USA. I do not have any other grits but can buy some. I just wondered how important it is it has to be trizact 3M.

Is this guide still applicable "How To Remove Scratches" its an Autogeek guide but I don't want to post the link because of it being blocked.


Yesterday I tried using the Meguiars Correction Compound with a Meguiars Microfiber cutting disc on the DA polisher. It has not properly got rid of the swirls. I then used the Meguiars finishing glaze polish after that on a Meguiars Foam Polishing machine pad with the DA polisher. Still not got rid of them... However they are ONLY visible in the sun light when looked at at particular angles.

Please help advise me Mike. Bit stuck right now!

Thanks buddy

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[Mike Phillips]

3M Trizact sandpaper here in Australia is very limited and can only be purchased as 3" or 6" sanding pads for machines. I know you said on your post to me its basically grinding if I do this.



I don't remember saying using a 3M Trizact sanding disc is grinding?

I tell people to NEVER try to machine sand with a ROTARY tool as this is no longer SANDING it is GRINDING.

???





This now means I have to get 3M Sanding sheets from the USA which are INCREDIBLY expensive for shipping.

For an example someone wants $152 for a single sheet of 3000 Grit 3M Trizact. No way am I gonna pay that lol.

So I wondered if instead of using 3M Trizact if I can use any other 3000 Grit sandpaper?



You can use what you have locally, just remember that the more expensive sanding discs and sanding papers tend to offer 2 things,

Uniform particle placement
Uniform particle size


I explain all of this in my article here,


Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/new-car-care-products/109251-griots-garage-boss-finishing-papers-reduce-orange-peel-review-mike-phillips.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3398/Griots_Finishing_001.JPG




Also - Meguiar's offers this same brand in their line.

Meguiars Unigrit Sand Paper (https://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-unigrit-sandpaper.html)


I think we're closing out the Griot's papers? Not sure, I think I saw them on the close-out rack in the warehouse.

Here's the deal with sanding,

MOST PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT

Why? Because factor clearcoats are THIN. See my article here.

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/87410-clearcoats-thin-mike-phillips.html)


I know there's a cool factor to telling everyone you can wet sand but in reality - it's primarily for CUSTOM paint jobs which are THICKER.








In fact, what grits sandpapers would you suggest? I do have a remaining sheet of 3000 Grit 3M Trizact from the USA. I do not have any other grits but can buy some. I just wondered how important it is it has to be trizact 3M.



See all the info I shared above. If you were going to wetsand and I'm assuming you're working on the FACTORY THIN paint - then stick with high grit levels. I'd say #2000 is dangerous for most people on factory paint. It can be used successfully but read this article.

Wetsanding removes paint - Compounding removes paint - Polishing removes a little paint (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/125619-wetsanding-removes-paint-compounding-removes-paint-polishing-removes-little-paint.html)


In my opinion, the safest way to sand factory paint to remove swirls and scratches, (not orange peel), would be to get some Mirka Abralon in #4000 grit, (as high as they go), and MACHINE sand the paint with a simple orbital polisher. The one you have could be used.

Sanding is really an advanced skill. If this is your DAILY DRIVER - perhaps just get the paint "good" and move on?





Is this guide still applicable "How To Remove Scratches" its an Autogeek guide but I don't want to post the link because of it being blocked.




How to remove scratches


That looks like one of my co-workers took information from a few different articles I've written over the years and pieced together the article you see on the above page.

All those pictures are pictures I took from wetsanding projects I performed. The info was all generated by my brain from my experience and it's all accurate. It still doesn't make wetsanding easy or safe when working on thin factory clearcoats.

The one picture of me holding a piece of sandpaper cut to the size of a postage stamp is from an article I wrote YEARS ago and "yes" that info is still just as accurate today as the day I wrote it.

RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tricks-tips-techniques/21469-rids-feathersanding.html)

(This picture and the info in my article actually dates back to 2002 on MOL)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/772/WetSandingExperiment1109.jpg








Yesterday I tried using the Meguiars Correction Compound with a Meguiars Microfiber cutting disc on the DA polisher. It has not properly got rid of the swirls.



1: What speed did you run the polisher?

2: Did you mark your backing plate or pad so you could see for sure the pad was rotating?

3: How much downward pressure did you apply to the head of the tool?

4: How many section passes did you make?

5: How large of an area did you buff?






I then used the Meguiars finishing glaze polish after that on a Meguiars Foam Polishing machine pad with the DA polisher. Still not got rid of them...



If the compound and the fiber pad didn't work there's no way a polish and a foam pad is going to do more work.





However they are ONLY visible in the sun light when looked at at particular angles.

Please help advise me Mike. Bit stuck right now!

Thanks buddy



From the above description - it sounds like you are seeing very FINE swirls?

Are you removing the original swirls and leaving behind new ones?


Pictures would help.


:)

[Bruno Soares]

Will it be any problem if I purchase a 6" backing plate to put on the machine I got?


Keep in mind a bigger pad on that machine will make it stall more than it probably already does with the 5.5" pads so if your goal is to only use it for large, flat panels, you should be fine. If you want to use that as a single polisher to tackle every part of the car, then make sure to mark your BP to watch for pad rotation, it will stall a lot.

[MartyK]

Hi there

Thanks for the quick reply.

Sorry about that Mike I didn't read your post you did a few days ago properly about the sanding being grinding. Now I got you. Could any sanding be done using an Air Powered Sander on 90 psi? Assisted with a soft foam interface?

In answer to these questions:
What speed did you run the polisher? Fastest possible which was speed 6.
Did you mark your backing plate or pad so you could see for sure the pad was rotating? I didn't but good idea! I must try that one!
How much downward pressure did you apply to the head of the tool? Hardly any, in fact just enough for my hand to support and guide it. How much pressure should I use for both compounding and polish?
How many section passes did you make? About 6 passes up and down and six left to right for both compounding and polishing and 1 second per inch.
How large of an area did you buff? It was about 15 cm by 15 cm.

Yes it does seem that I am removing old swirls and leaving new ones behind although i have not properly analysed them all I know is that they are everywhere before and everywhere after the process.
I have been using a little square piece of 3M Trizact 3000 Grit Foam paper keeping it moist so that would have surely removed the original scratches one would have thought? Which must mean I am making new ones possibly.

Thanks again guys for the help there

[Mike Phillips]

Hi there

Thanks for the quick reply.

Sorry about that Mike I didn't read your post you did a few days ago properly about the sanding being grinding. Now I got you. Could any sanding be done using an Air Powered Sander on 90 psi? Assisted with a soft foam interface?



Yes.



In answer to these questions:

1: What speed did you run the polisher? Fastest possible which was speed 6.

2: Did you mark your backing plate or pad so you could see for sure the pad was rotating? I didn't but good idea! I must try that one!

3: How much downward pressure did you apply to the head of the tool? Hardly any, in fact just enough for my hand to support and guide it. How much pressure should I use for both compounding and polish?

4: How many section passes did you make? About 6 passes up and down and six left to right for both compounding and polishing and 1 second per inch.

5: How large of an area did you buff? It was about 15 cm by 15 cm.

[/quote]

For numbers 2, 3, and 4

Mark your backing plate
Apply about 5 pounds of downward pressure BUT maintain pad rotation.
Buff longer.


Watch this video and specifically when I SHOW and EXPLAIN how to use a Porter Cable polisher. The SAME principals will apply to your polisher and your technique.


How to do a Test Spot and then buff out your car! Video Explanation by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/125930-how-do-test-spot-then-buff-out-your-car-video-explanation-mike-phillips.html)


This is my opinion is one of the best videos Yancy and I have ever made together and also one of the easiest to follow, understand and then implement the techniques video on the topic.


https://youtu.be/ulWXODgg8V4










Yes it does seem that I am removing old swirls and leaving new ones behind although i have not properly analyzed them all I know is that they are everywhere before and everywhere after the process.

You should not have defects everywhere AFTER buffing out your car.

This is WHY you dial-in your TEST SPOT. Make sure you can make ONE SMALL SECTION OF PAINT LOOK GREAT! Before buffing out the entire car. If you cannot make ONE small section of paint STOP. Correct your process until you CAN make one small section of paint look GREAT.

THEN buff out the rest of the car.

Watch the video.




[QUOTE=MartyK;1675592]

I have been using a little square piece of 3M Trizact 3000 Grit Foam paper keeping it moist so that would have surely removed the original scratches one would have thought? Which must mean I am making new ones possibly.

Thanks again guys for the help there




New scratches would be micro-marring from your buffing process, either the product, the pad, a dirty pad or all 3.


:0

[Mike Phillips]

Also read this,

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)


Can't stay on the forum.

Been typing solid since 9:00am and it's now 11:00am

I have my own car to buff out today.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/57_TurQ_001.JPG


:)

[MartyK]

Wow now thats a nice car right there! One to be proud of!

Ok Mike I will have a look through at those videos then and I'm sure it'll give me plenty of tips. I am sticking to Meguiars products through out this process... such as the correction compound, mirror glaze polish, meguiars red foam compounding pad for the compounding and the yellow polishing pad for the mirror glaze. Seeing as the products all seem good I think it is probably my technique causing marring etc... I'm sure your videos will be of help which I shall look at tomorrow as it is 1 am here!

Have fun on the pride n joy!

Mart.

[MartyK]

Hello, Mike

Just wanted to thank you very much indeed for your help.

Wanna give you a quick update.

Ok so today I rinsed, washed with Meguiars car wash then rinsed then dried with a rapid dry towel.

Applied Clay Bar with clay lube.

Used a Lake Country Orange HDO Foam Pad with Scholls S20 compound.

Having watched your video 3 times during the weekend I would not have been able to do this. It has helped me SO much.

I can hardly find a single swirl now at all.

Remaining are a couple of deep scratches which can only be seen under a light when parked at a petrol station. Little bit hesitant to do any sanding to be honest in case i damage it.

I am happy with the results personally. Would really like to try and send you a photo but I don't have a swirl finder light.. I am going order one though when I get money. Skint at the moment due to investing in car detailing products.

Having done all your techniques, your tips of pressure, your tips on section passes and watching your video 3 times it has made my result very satisfactory. So thanks again Mike. All the best

Mart.

Also how long should pads last? How do I know when they are worn out? Do they wear out so much it goes down to nothing?

[Mike Phillips]

Having watched your video 3 times during the weekend I would not have been able to do this. It has helped me SO much.

I can hardly find a single swirl now at all.



This is great news! :cheers:





Remaining are a couple of deep scratches which can only be seen under a light when parked at a petrol station. Little bit hesitant to do any sanding to be honest in case i damage it.



We call these RIDS - here's my article on the topic time stamp is March 10th, 2010

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24045-rids-definition-rids-story-behind-term.html)

We carry a product from Jason Kilmer and Team that uses this acronym in the name of the product.

KXK R.I.D. STIX (https://www.autogeek.net/rid-stix.html)

I would recommend learning to live with them for the reasons I believe I've already shared previously. See these two articles and they are topical for this topic.

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/87410-clearcoats-thin-mike-phillips.html)

Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wet-sanding-cutting-buffing/21471-wetsanding-fresh-paint-vs-factory-paint.html)

Wetsanding removes paint - Compounding removes paint - Polishing removes a little paint (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/125619-wetsanding-removes-paint-compounding-removes-paint-polishing-removes-little-paint.html)









Having done all your techniques, your tips of pressure, your tips on section passes and watching your video 3 times it has made my result very satisfactory. So thanks again Mike. All the best



Good to hear and very rewarding to hear too... :)





Also how long should pads last? How do I know when they are worn out? Do they wear out so much it goes down to nothing?



I get years out of mine but I don't torture them. Watch this video to see what I say about the words

Violent & Torture

See video #5 here,

Complete List of Live Broadcast Videos on YouTube - Yancy Martinez & Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/126420-complete-list-live-broadcast-videos-youtube-yancy-martinez-mike-phillips.html)


:)

[MartyK]

Thanks Mike for those links they are really useful.

I know these circular DA pads are really good for things like hoods and trunks but what about when it comes to needing swirl removal on the narrow bits of the paintwork? Presumably it would need to be done by hand and if so, what hand applicator can you suggest for removing quite heavy swirling on those bits the DA pads can't do?

Thanks!

[Mike Phillips]

I know these circular DA pads are really good for things like hoods and trunks but what about when it comes to needing swirl removal on the narrow bits of the paintwork?



I show 2 ways to do it here,

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/126523-videos-removing-painted-pinstripes-over-single-stage-paint.html#post1676898


Louvers are about as intricate and thin as it gets.


:)

[MartyK]

Hello Mike.

Excellent. Had a good watch of the FB video and looks like the thing I am after.

I have another question. Yesterday I spent almost all day polishing up my Dads hood on the his car. He got a black car but I don't think the paint job is original. We both have the same cars. Both of them are Hyundai Sonata 2016 models. My paint job just seems a lot better quality. My car is kind of a silvery grey. His one could very well have been repainted at some point. I just don't know.

For example his hood just always seems to have water spots after washing every time. Its very hard to keep on top of them... more so than my car. Whats this to do with? Is it because he has a bad / thin clear coat?

I was disappointed because yesterday not only did I polish the hood, but I also waxed it and then today I washed down the roof which meant that excess water splatter got back onto the hood and even though I used a quick drying towel to wipe the water off I noticed that in the sunshine it showed loads more water spots up. Even after waxing it yesterday. It just seems very vulnerable to water spots. So as you can imagine every time we get rain it shows them up very clearly.

Any ideas Mike?

Cheers :)

[Mike Phillips]

For example his hood just always seems to have water spots after washing every time. Its very hard to keep on top of them... more so than my car.

Whats this to do with?

Any ideas Mike?




I don't know except to say, it has to make you think,

What's in the water?



Clearcoat paint is actually pretty tough.


So WHAT is in the water that is so CORROSIVE that it's eating through the wax you put on the paint and then staining and even ETCHING or EATING into the paint?


I'm so glad I wrote this article. The point of the article isn't ABOUT water - it's about what's in YOUR water where you LIVE?


What's in the water? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/126292-whats-water.html)


:)