Glass Help

[3MW]

I am trying to remove what APPEARS to be water spots with raised mineral deposits on glass, but I'm not exactly sure if that's what I am dealing with. The issue doesn't seem that noticeable until the windows get wet. When I spray the windows or when it rains the water just sits in the same exact spots every time and the pattern is very noticeable. What do you guys think....water spots?

[Mike Phillips]

Just to chime in,


Yes, water spots. What I call them are

Imprint Rings

Where the water forms a puddle and then dries, it leaves a circular ring or imprint on the surface that mimics the form of the puddle or drop that formed.


When I type the below into Skynet (https://www.google.com/) - (Skynet finds my articles really well)

imprint rings mike phillips



I pull up my article on Imprint Rings on paint, same idea.

Imprint Rings - A specific type of water spot on car paint by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/101936-imprint-rings-specific-type-water-spot-car-paint-mike-phillips.html)

You get the same effect on glass.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/SprinklerSpotsS003.jpg



The below picture was taking AFTER wiping the paint clean. The imprint rings remain because they are both an etching IN the paint and a formation of crud ON the paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints02.jpg


:)

[Mike Phillips]

What I show in my classes is this product,


BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-glass-water-spot-remover.html)


It works great. At this time it only comes in a 32 ounce bottle as it's targeted at Pro Detailers.


Here's my review. Note the pictures you see below are the REAL DEAL - I don't do mock-up.


Review: BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2018-product-reviews-by-mike-phillips/121692-review-blackfire-glass-water-spot-remover.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3764/aWaterSpotR_000.JPG


From the Autogeek.com store page

BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover is a mildly abrasive polish that gently removes mild to moderate water spots from your glass surfaces. Perfect for use by hand or by machine, Glass Water Spot Remover improves the clarity and visibility of your glass without risk of any further damage!

BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover features:

• Removes mild to moderate water spots
• Improves visibility on glass surfaces
• Use by hand or machine




Okay, the above is great info but here's the real skinny....

When water lands on your car's glass over and over again, be it from normal rainy weather or from a man-made source, for example from a sprinkler, the water will form beads or puddles, (depends on if there's anything on the surface like a glass coating to create surface tension), and over time, you will get two topical defects on your car's glass.

Road Film - the film that builds up from dirty water that lands on your car. See my article HERE (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2009-to-2017-how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/72159-road-film-if-you-drive-your-car-rain-your-car-has-road-film.html)

Imprint rings - an imprint ring is the VISIBLE perimeter outline that marks where water formed a drop or a puddle and after evaporating off left a ring for chemical contamination. See my article HERE (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2009-to-2017-how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/101936-imprint-rings-specific-type-water-spot-car-paint-mike-phillips.html)


Road film and imprint rings on glass will NOT wash off. You have to mechanically abrade it off and that's where BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-glass-water-spot-remover.html) comes into the equation. You can use this product by hand or by machine but results are always better when you work by machine. Plus here at Autogeek... we don't sell hands... we sell machines. In the pictures below you'll see me using a Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher with a Lake Country ThinPro Foam Polishing Pad. This combo kicks water spots butt and it's fast and easy.

You're reading a review written by a guy that learned to detail cars in OREGON.


So what you say?


Well here's so what... it rains a LOT in Oregon and what this means is when a customer brought me their car not only would the paint have water spots but the glass would also have water spots. Here's the deal - you CANNOT make the paint look perfect and then give your customer back their car with water spots on the glass so a LONG TIME AGO I learned the value and the NECCASSITY of machine polishing glass.

Here's an old worn out cliché

Work smarter instead of harder

Everyone throws that old cliché around so loosely but they NEVER show you how to actually work smarter instead of working harder so the cliché and the person spouting it are of no use. So let me share with you how to work smarter instead of harder. Next time you go to wash your car, START by machine polishing the glass with the BLACKFIRE Water Spot Remover.

Why?

Because glass polishing can be a tick messy as you'll get polish splatter on the inside of the window frame on the windshield, doors, sides of cars and back of framed glass on the back of a vehicle. Not a big deal as you can simply wipe the splatter off. But here's what I do and teach in all of my classes. Machine polish all the exterior glass and then wash the car. You'll get your glass perfectly clean like it was brand new and when you wash the car you'll remove all the splatter. You'll kill two birds with one stone. You'll work smarter instead of harder.

After you machine polish you glass crystal clear again stick a fork in the project and call it done or clean the glass with a glass cleaner and apply a glass sealant or a glass coating and then in the future your glass will stay cleaner longer or if you're driving in the rain the water will simply fly off the windows. In the case of your windshield after about 30 mile per hour you won't need your wipers and rain water will basicly fly off the glass.


Here's some pictures that show you what to do and how easy this is.... by the way, the spots you see on the glass, if you were to wash this Honda Pilot, the spots or more specifically, the IMPRINT RINGS would NOT WASH OFF. And the more time that goes by the worse they get. The ONLY way to remove the imprint ring left by water that has dried on glass is to mechanically remove them via a glass-safe polish.



Here's the sun roof on a Honda Pilot. Water lands, dries and leaves water spots with imprint rings.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_003.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_004.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_005.JPG



The imprint rings are the outer perimeter lines that mimic how the water drop formed and then dried.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_006.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_007.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_008.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_009.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_010.JPG



GREAT tool for machine polishing glass and your car's paint. See my article HERE (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2018-new-car-detailing-how-to-article-by-mike-phillips/111332-heres-what-you-need-get-into-machine-polishing-recommendations-beginner-mike-phillips.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_011.JPG



Happy face - you don't have to do this, just put some product on the face of the pad.... :)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_012.JPG



Run the polisher over the glass on the 4 - 5 speed setting....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_013.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_014.JPG



Wipe residue off with microfiber towel...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_015.JPG



BOOM! --> clean glass again!

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_016.JPG




This looks good....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_017.JPG



This looks bad...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_018.JPG



Now I'll remove the tape and do the other side as a way of saying thank you to the owner for letting me use their SUV for this article.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_019.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_020.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_021.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_022.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_023.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_024.JPG



There we go... the other half is polished clean...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_025.JPG



And now the driver's side...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_026.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_027.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_028.JPG



This product really works good.... you wont' be disappointed....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_029.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_030.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_031.JPG



Portraint photo from an iPhone 10XS Max - notice how the background is blurred but the bottle is in focus. Pretty cool.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_032.JPG



Review

Great product. Great performance. I'll be adding this product to all my car detailing classes for the students to learn about and use.

I'd say 99.9% of the cars on the road, and this mean your car or cars, needs to have the glass polished. Everything on the outside of your car gets a film on it including the glass. Take my word for it, I teach car detailing for a living. Seeing is believing but you can also FEEL the difference on glass that has been polished and glass that has not been polished.

Here's my best tip for using this product. Either do like I 'normally' do and machine polish the glass and the wash the car OR tape off the inner perimeter of the frame around the glass so you don't have to clean out splatter after you're done polishing the glass.

Also - for products like these - SHAKE WELL before and during use so you always have uniform mixture of abrasives throughout the product. :props:



On Autogeek.com


BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-glass-water-spot-remover.html)

BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover - 1 gallon (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-glass-water-spot-remover-128.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3764/aWaterSpotR_000.JPG http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3764/aWaterSpotR_000a.JPG

[Mike Phillips]

And yes, I did detail the bad ass 1935 Ford you see in the background. Paint was SUPER HARD.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3765/BFWSRemove_027.JPG



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Question...

Do you have any clearcoat safe compounds?

Do you have a polisher of some sort?



:)

[Bobby B.]

I would try using a Water Spot Remover first. If that doesn't take care of your issue, try a Compound. Once the water spots are gone apply a Glass Sealant or Coating.

BLACKFIRE Glass Water Spot Remover (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-glass-water-spot-remover.html)

BLACKFIRE Scratch Resistant Clear Compound, BLACKFIRE Compound (https://www.autogeek.net/blackfire-compound-8.html)

[3MW]

Question...

Do you have any clearcoat safe compounds?

Do you have a polisher of some sort?



:)


Mike, I recently did some research online and came across some older posts of yours about your detailing days in Oregon and picked up a bottle of M04 and was planning to use it with a PC7424XP. What pad would you recommend with this setup?

Do you find the Blackfire product to be a better choice than the M04 for this job? I am a novice with the DA, so the more user friendly, the better....I need something Bubba Proof.

Also, how many pounds of pressure on the DA when working on glass (side windows, windshield & rear)?

Thanks so much for all the great information!:props:

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, I recently did some research online and came across some older posts of yours about your detailing days in Oregon and picked up a bottle of M04 and was planning to use it with a PC7424XP.

What pad would you recommend with this setup?



Use a sharp foam cutting pad. Hopefully you have a 5" backing plate on your PC and some THIN foam pads in your pad arsenal. Thick foam pads and large diameter foam pads don't rotate well on the PC.






Do you find the Blackfire product to be a better choice than the M04 for this job?



Yes.

The reason why is,

A: It uses some old school abrasive technology.
I don't know what it is but it's NOT safe to use on any car paint. Works great on glass as it strips whatever road film, drizzle stains and water spots off the surface.


B: The forumula for Meguiar's M0416 has been updated.
Back when I used M0416 it was still the same product that was used in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s. Sometime in the late 90s or early 2000s, the formula for M0116, M0216, M0416 were all updated. And the new modern formulas are nothing like the original formulas.


The M0416 I used is the formula I wrote about in my first how-to book.


My first car detailing how-to book from 1998 - Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/car-detailing-history-vintage-and-antique-car-waxes-and-buffing-tools/125061-my-first-car-detailing-how-book-1998-mike-phillips.html)

https://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3923/Mike_Phillips_First_Book.jpg








I am a novice with the DA, so the more user friendly, the better....I need something Bubba Proof.



Ha ha.... Bubba Proof is a term I use all the time.

The new M0416 is user-friendly. Do this - shake it up and then pour some into the palm of your hand and then rub some between your thumb and index finger. Check to see if you can feel any gritty particles. From memory, you won't. If you had some REAL M0416 you would feel the grittiness of the clay it was based from.

You can feel some grittiness in the BF Water Spot Remover.

Most modern abrasive technology used for car paint feels like Jergens hand lotion. It's the chunky type of abrasive technology that works great for polishing glass as it has the ability to remove what is VERY STUBBORN films, drizzle stains and water spots.






Also, how many pounds of pressure on the DA when working on glass (side windows, windshield & rear)?



About 5 pounds of pressure BUT you need to see pad rotation. If the pad is not rotating - you are not doing anything. There are EXPERTS in our industry that will tell you a free spinning random orbital polisher does NOT need to rotate and you can still remove swirls, or in your case remove water spots off glass but while their intentions are good - they are wrong.






Thanks so much for all the great information!




I always try my best but keep in mind, at least at this point in time, I'm not a YouTube Influencer.



:laughing:

[Mike Phillips]

To help you learn the way of the PC,

Watch this video. The tips and techniques I share are SPOT ON ACCURATE. The tips and techniques I share for using the PC to polish glass also apply to removing TOPICAL gunk off glass. (Removing sub-surface scratches is totally different.)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulWXODgg8V4



Then read this before you start. It will focus on what not to do and then what to do.

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)


I wrote the original version of this back in 2011 (https://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?50701-DA-Polisher-Trouble-Shooting-Guide)

But again, I'm not a YouTube Influencer so take what I wrote with a cyber grain of salt.


:)

[57Rambler]

I always try my best but keep in mind, at least at this point in time, I'm not a YouTube Influencer.

:laughing:


Maybe if you changed your last name to Jenner or Kardashian it would give you more 'cred with the kiddies and you could become a billionaire off product endorsements ? :coolgleam:


Thanks for the write-up on the BF Glass Water Spot Remover. Been meaning to get a glass polish product and couldn't decide which one, BF is now on my shopping list.

[Coatingsarecrack]

I just tried the griots fine glass polish and did wonders on my water spots.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3MW]

[QUOTE=Mike Phillips;1660398]Use a sharp foam cutting pad. Hopefully you have a 5" backing plate on your PC and some THIN foam pads in your pad arsenal. Thick foam pads and large diameter foam pads don't rotate well on the PC.

I do have the 5" backing plate, but I need to pick up a pad? Would you recommend foam over microfiber or glass specific pads for the novice? Definitely looking for something that will not leave another issue to correct (hazing, marring, etc). Is hazing, marring, or scratches even possible using a DA on a hard surface like glass with any of the combinations mentioned?

Is that a white ThinPro pad were you using on the GG6? It appears to be a previously used white pad, but I'm not sure.




The new M0416 is user-friendly. Do this - shake it up and then pour some into the palm of your hand and then rub some between your thumb and index finger. Check to see if you can feel any gritty particles. From memory, you won't. If you had some REAL M0416 you would feel the grittiness of the clay it was based from.

I did notice some grit to it, but definitely not Chunky like I was expecting or hoping for. :cry:





About 5 pounds of pressure BUT you need to see pad rotation. If the pad is not rotating - you are not doing anything. There are EXPERTS in our industry that will tell you a free spinning random orbital polisher does NOT need to rotate and you can still remove swirls, or in your case remove water spots off glass but while their intentions are good - they are wrong.

Mike, I noticed that you were only using one hand on the DA. Was that just for spreading the product or is that sufficient to achieve 5 pounds of pressure?