Menzerna 300 experience

[FurtadoZ9]

Hi everyone.

I worked on a 2018 mustang with (what I assume is) hard paint over the past few days. I was trying to decide if I wanted to do menz 1000 + 2500 combo as I have experience with those two and hard paint (at the sacrifice of finishing gloss) or try my new bottle of 300.

Initially I believed I was still going to finish with 2500, in anticipation that haze would still be left over if I used something from the 3000 series. After doing a test spot with 300 and 3500 (and 1000 + 2500) I was pretty surprised at the results - given that I used a lake country orange pad with the 3500 (yellow pad with 300).

Even more so with how 300 cut on the hard paint and broke down to a point that would allow for 3500. I did notice that for this to happen there had to be pressure and speed adjustments towards the end of the buffing cycle (still learning).

Here's a short video that shows what I did:

YouTube (https://youtu.be/ibyHehNqQqo)

Rupes LHR 15
LC yellow pad
Speed at 4
Moderate pressure

First clip I used 5 passes at consistent pressure and speed. Second clip I used that same pressure and speed, 4th pass decreased to speed 3 with same pressure, 5th pass decreased to speed 2 and decreased pressure slightly.

I noticed no difference in cut between both areas. Both were done on same panel.

However, I wasn't able to get same correction as I would with 1000 + 2500. There were still deep scratches. I suppose there's the give and take with jobs like these (unless if we 3 step).

Any suggestions on working 300 differently? Or perhaps products similar to 300 that would cut a bit longer? (Maybe my technique was incorrect for this product)

TIA

[rlmccarty2000]

I save 300 as my “last resort” compound. If a vehicle is not responding to 400 then I switch to 300. I’m trying to save all the clearcoat I can.

I do a test spot first, of course, to diagnose what I will need to correct the paint. Your 2018 Mustang must have had some serious defects to start off with 300.

When I use 300 or 400 I am going for heavy defect removal and I use a Megs microfiber cutting pad and normally finish up with 3500 and a Rupes yellow pad. There are many ways to skin this cat, this just happens to work well for me.

Looking at your video I see some haze, which is normal with 300/400. You mention (I think) another video, maybe this it where you remove the haze.

[Kamakaz1961]

I use FG300 with a Lake Country Orange Hybrid Pad. Works wonders. Obviously more cut than FG400. But I use a Lake Country White Hybrid Pad for the Polish (Super Finish 3500/3800). I use the Flex 3401

[FurtadoZ9]

I save 300 as my “last resort” compound. If a vehicle is not responding to 400 then I switch to 300. I’m trying to save all the clearcoat I can.

I do a test spot first, of course, to diagnose what I will need to correct the paint. Your 2018 Mustang must have had some serious defects to start off with 300.

When I use 300 or 400 I am going for heavy defect removal and I use a Megs microfiber cutting pad and normally finish up with 3500 and a Rupes yellow pad. There are many ways to skin this cat, this just happens to work well for me.

Looking at your video I see some haze, which is normal with 300/400. You mention (I think) another video, maybe this it where you remove the haze.

Yeah, I tried 2500 first, then 400 with an orange LC pad, finally 400 with yellow pad. 400 removed a bit but scratches were still very present. So I jumped to 300 + yellow pad.

According to my carfidant milpro, I'm only seeing .1-.2 mil removal after using 300 with LC yellow pad. About 4-5 laps on each section, decent pressure, with the last 2 laps reduced speed and pressure.

There's two clips in the one video. First one is consistent speed and pressure, second clip is reduced speed and pressure on last laps. Thanks for the reply!




I use FG300 with a Lake Country Orange Hybrid Pad. Works wonders. Obviously more cut than FG400. But I use a Lake Country White Hybrid Pad for the Polish (Super Finish 3500/3800). I use the Flex 3401

Thanks for the reply. I tried finishing with 2500 + white pad, 3500 + white pad, and 3500 + orange pad (lake country). The orange pad + 3500 finished best, as 3500 + white seemed to leave some haze (even though it was a bit glossier).

[ducksfan]

I use 300 as a "First resort" for headlights.

[FurtadoZ9]

Is it just me or do all menzerna compounds break down very fast? I used menzerna 1000 to follow up 2000 grit wet sanding, and had to go over the area at least 3 times, with ~5 section passes and a lot of pressure.

Or maybe it's the hardest paint in the world

[mwoywod]

Is it just me or do all menzerna compounds break down very fast? I used menzerna 1000 to follow up 2000 grit wet sanding, and had to go over the area at least 3 times, with ~5 section passes and a lot of pressure.

Or maybe it's the hardest paint in the world

Agreed, Menzerna compounds break down pretty fast IME. It's great when polishing but can be frustrating when compounding.

[FurtadoZ9]

My goodness it is

Went over a foot long area (straight line wetsand mark) about 15 times in total with 1000, LC yellow and a rupes 15 with more pressure than I'm comfortable with. Barley removed .3 mils

[SWETM]

Remember that it's diminishing abrasives in them or clusters in the HC400 at least. So when you spread it out just dab it out and the lowest speed setting on the polisher and fast armspeed if you spread it out more with the polisher on. Some just use the polisher off and spread it out like smearing it out. If you spread it out on a higher spead setting and 2-3 passes. You can have breaking the highest cut down already. So when you have spread it out turn off the polisher and dial up to the speed setting you want to have.

Use a slow armspeed of a inch per second and a slight pressure on the polisher. Do this on 2 passes max and then ease up the pressure to be only the weight of the polisher on the next 2 passes. Wipe the residue off and inspect with the results with your inspection light. If you keep going it's like you where to be polishing with a polish and then to not have any cut basicly from the abrasives. You could even get away with 1 pass and stop and wipe it off and inspect. Then look at the how it removed the deeper defects. If you are there or just there with the results you want. 1or 2 more pass and you are done. So the combo of diminishing and pad and the speed setting and the armspeed and the pressure they all have an impact on the results. And trying out which kind of this things you use as a constant and which you dial in. To get it a little less complicated.

If you want to have an almost constant cut from the polishes you use. Look into a non diminishing abrasives compound. Think that the 3D ACA X-tra Cut Compound is this and a high cutting one. With these kind of compounds you benefit from more passes per sections until they gets used up.

So to get the most benefit with these faster to be diminishing abrasives. Be gentle when you spread them out. And thinking that you get the most out of the cut in the first 2 passes in general. If you slow down the armspeed and a little more pressure and compensate with a little higher speed setting on the polisher. Do this on 1 pass and if you see the compound clears up. You have breaking it down to the finishing part and adjust to the weight of the polisher on the second pass. And you can have worked through it.

Yes Menzerna has made the abrasives to break down faster with a higher or sharper cut. So you can have a shorter cycle time to be more effective in polishing faster. And if you don't get the defect removal desired in 2-4 passes. Change to another more aggressive pad like the Lake Country Low Lint Lambswool Pad or the Purple Foamed Wool Pad or a mf cutting pad.

[FurtadoZ9]

Thanks for the reply. I understand the importance of minimizing the impact on initial spreading, as this is where you can begin to break down the abrasives. You can really take notice of this while hand polishing areas with a small pad, as you can see (and hear) the liquid break down with each stroke.

Additionally, I found myself using smaller working areas with not only 300 and 400, but 1000 as well (which claims to be non diminishing, but actually breaks down fairly quick IME).

I think the pad was also an issue, yellow lake country foam is not the most aggressive.

I have some CG v32 laying around, which I'm reluctant to use, but I will try that with my yellow LC foam as a comparison to the menzerna 1000 - as I still have 1 wet sanded area to polish on the same mustang I've been working on. Will report back.

By the way, I did just that : slow arm speed, smaller working area, higher speed and more pressure - that gave me the best results in terms.of removing 2000 grit wetsand marks. But it still required at least 3 applications of menzerna 1000 (3-4 passes each).

[SWETM]

Thanks for the reply. I understand the importance of minimizing the impact on initial spreading, as this is where you can begin to break down the abrasives. You can really take notice of this while hand polishing areas with a small pad, as you can see (and hear) the liquid break down with each stroke.

Additionally, I found myself using smaller working areas with not only 300 and 400, but 1000 as well (which claims to be non diminishing, but actually breaks down fairly quick IME).

I think the pad was also an issue, yellow lake country foam is not the most aggressive.

I have some CG v32 laying around, which I'm reluctant to use, but I will try that with my yellow LC foam as a comparison to the menzerna 1000 - as I still have 1 wet sanded area to polish on the same mustang I've been working on. Will report back.

By the way, I did just that : slow arm speed, smaller working area, higher speed and more pressure - that gave me the best results in terms.of removing 2000 grit wetsand marks. But it still required at least 3 applications of menzerna 1000 (3-4 passes each).

Wow that paint must be hard!
Have you looked at the Apex Detailing Channel on Youtube and his compound series? Think he got a playlist that you can find the testing videos on them. He wet sand with different grits from P3000 or P2500 down to P800. And he uses the Flex XFE7-12 mini polisher with an orange foam cutting pad from LC I think it was. And most fly through P2000 and some gets trouble on the P1500 and the really aggressive ones makes a great attempt on the P1000 and some even on the P800. But paint hardness of the clearcoat makes a difference. You may do a wet sanding with a P3000 grit on the sanded parts you have left. To get it easy to buff out with the polisher.

And it is oem paint you do this compounding on? Or is it on a repainted area?
Maybe the paint and the Menzerna don't play well together. Can happens in rare cases that you can see a difference between different compounds. Is it Meguiars M101 that some use on the DA with wool cutting pad or mf cutting pad. It's another abrasive technology that's easy to get and try it out. Also the Meguiars Mf Cutting Pad is a great cutting pad with compound. Could be interesting to test out and see how your results gets with something like that. Sonax Cutmax is another compound with a high cutting ability but it's a deminishing abrasive compound. The Menzerna HC1000 was one of the first compounds for the ceramic paints that Mercedes used. Did go with another name before. Didn't know it's a non deminishing abrasive compound. And even the non deminishing abrasives breaks down in the end or more like it's sharp edges degrades the more you work it.

About how much of the SHC300 do you apply on the pad?
Smart to work in smaller sections when you get the harder clearcoats. Do you have any Rupes Blue Foam Cutting Pads? Those says to be very aggressive for being foam pads. Thought since you have the Rupes 15mm polisher. And yeah try the V32 but many don't like their polishes. The easier way would be to get a couple of the Meguiars Mf Cutting Pads I think. Prime the mf pads thoroughly so you work in some compound on the mf and apply around 3-4 drops of pea sized. And work in smaller sections as you did. Keep a little pressure on the polisher until you see the compound clears up. Then less pressure and finishing it off with a pass or 2 after you that. Think this would work the same with the HC1000 if you don't have any more of the SHC300 left. Since the paint seems to be so hard a more aggressive pad is needed since you already have the high cutting HC1000 and maybe the SHC300.

[FurtadoZ9]

Yes very hard. I've been watching his videos, very informative stuff.

Yes it is OEM paint, and every panel is like this. The bumpers are the hardest, I would assume because the plastic doesn't want to absorb heat like metal / aluminum panels do (or perhaps different clear coat).

I have also noticed even though 1000 is non diminishing, it still breaks down. Not like 300 or 400 of course, but there is some refinement. And I think that is with most products.

I apply a good 4 pea sized drops. I've tried more, and less. But error on the side of greater product gave me the cut I needed for this paint, it just takes a bit longer to work down so I am able to effectively finish with 3500.

I don't have any other pads unfortunately, but like you mentioned I think MF cutting pads would make a world of difference. For what it is worth, I made a video here showcasing the difference between menz 1000 and CG V32 on this same mustang. A few notes:

Whole area was corrected prior to wet sanding.
Wetsanded with 2000 grit moderately.
Panel clean and wiped with IPA prior to cutting
Two different pads, one for menz 1000 and one for V32.
Each pad was fully primed with the respective product, no detail or spray wax used as a primer.

4 dots
2 passes, wiped product, reapplied 4 dots, 2 more passes. 4 total
Speed 3.5
Moderate-hard pressure
Slow arm speed

Also, assuming my Carfidant Milpro is accurate, after the wet sanding and compounding I don't even think I removed a total of .5 mils. Around .3 - .4

IPA wiped before video. Sorry it's an awkward angle, hopefully it transfers to video well.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/cMYU60GiRyo)

Menz 1000 pic :

Imgur: The magic of the Internet (https://imgur.com/a/Ofds8Fp)

CG V32 pic:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet (https://imgur.com/a/cYJgLqt)

I am just about done with this car. It is leaving my driveway and never returning.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet (https://imgur.com/a/5PzaPVf)

[Kdancy]

I just finished up a job on a Hudson that had been repainted in the 90's with single stage acrylic enamel.
Someone had tried to wipe off some overspray from another job that had settled on the car. They used abrasive cleaning pads on one quarter and had scratched the hell out of it. I used a clay bar mitt and got all the overspray off first, then I started with 400, and then went to 300 with a wool cutting pad, over the whole car. Came back with 400 with an orange light cut foam pad and will go over with the menzerna 2500. It has turned out very nice.