How to repair clear coat damage from bird poop?

[DLandes14]

Hello everyone,

I appreciate the add.

So I was washing my truck this weekend and I came across these 2 spots on the hood that I think are probably from bird poop or sap that sat and baked on the paint too long.

Take a look at the pictures to see what's going on. These are blown up, the actual size is maybe the size of a quarter each.

I try to DIY anything I can but I don't have any experience in detailing or paint repair.

How would you attack these? I've read about and watched some videos on repairing bird poop spots but they never seemed to be legitimately scratched like this.

I can feel the little cracks with my nail so I'm afraid they'll probably have to be wet sanded. I've done a lot of research and I know some people familiar with polishing to the point where I think I am comfortable with doing the wet sanding myself if need be.

Just gonna go slow and start with the highest grit possible and work my way down if need be.

What I don't know is if it will end up requiring some sort of touch up paint. Will that become apparent after wet sanding?

Those little etching marks are so fine it's hard to tell really how deep they are. Sorry for the long post.

I appreciate any advice.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Hello everyone,

I appreciate the add.




Apologies that I have not answered yet.

When you posted this, last Monday on October 14th, I was traveling back from my Allentown, Pennsylvania Roadshow Class and then packing to leave for Evansville, Indiana to film with Dennis Gage for My Classic car,


Pictures - Allentown, Pennsylvania Roadshow Car Detailing Class (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/autogeek-roadshow-detailing-classes/124766-pictures-allentown-pennsylvania-roadshow-car-detailing-class.html)


2 Cool cars need for My Classic Car with Dennis Gage (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/124365-2-cool-cars-need-my-classic-car-dennis-gage.html)


The last 2 months have been very hyper-busy and it's been impossible to stay caught-up with my normal job duties as I wear a lot of hats here at Autogeek.


Hang tight....


:)

[Mike Phillips]

More....



Here's something I wrote 9 years ago in 2010 - try to find an expert on YouTube that even knows these terms.

:laughing:


Two Types of Bird Dropping Etchings (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-and-frequently-asked-questions/24924-two-types-bird-dropping-etchings.html)


Two Types of Bird Dropping Etchings


Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etching
Type II Bird Dropping - Fractured/Wrinkled Etching




There are two common types of damage associated with bird dropping etchings;



Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etching

Type I Topical Stain Etchings are usually only topical, that is shallow enough that they can be completely removed or at least greatly improved to the point where they are difficult to see.

This type of etching can be removed using a clear coat safe compound or polish by hand or machine. Hand removal is almost always more efficient as you can exert more pressure to a small area and thus keep your work area isolated to just the affected area. By machine you can use a Spot Repair System, again to keep the work area isolated to just the affected area.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/797/M105RemoveBirdDropping002c.jpg




Type II Bird Dropping - Fractured/Wrinkled Etching

Type II Wrinkled Etchings are usually too deep to fix safely. The problem is the paint fractures, (splits apart in tiny lines,), or wrinkles as the paint swells and bunches together. In both instances, the resulting defect is throughout the clear layer of paint and not topical. Thus trying to remove it will require removing so much clear paint that you will likely expose the basecoat, or colored layer of paint which has a dull appearance. For this reason it's not safe to try to remove a Type II Bird Dropping Wrinkled or Fractured Etching.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/719/BirdDroppingEtchingWrinkles.jpg



:)

[Mike Phillips]

More...


Here's your picture only in full size so it's easier to see.


This shows the Type II Fracture/Wrinkled Etching.

It cannot be fixed.


Type II Fracture/Wrinkled Etching

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachments/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/68219d1571096808-how-repair-clear-coat-damage-bird-poop-20191009_173145-jpg



You will never find an expert on YouTube showing you how to fix it because the fractures go DEEP INTO the clear layer of paint.

Anyone that tries to sand this type of defect flat and then buff out their sanding marks will sand and then buff through the clear layer of paint.

If they filmed this, they would end up deleting the video footage as it would show them to be a fool.

The safest thing to do is polish it lightly and then seal the paint and live with it.

If you cannot live with it, then consider having the panel re-painted. A budge repaint to an average size car hood would be a low of $300.00 and you can go as high as you want. The more you pay, if you do your research, the better the paint job you will get.



Never any fun to be the bearer of bad news. It is rewarding to have been doing this so long that you have the experience to know what can and what cannot be done and then avoiding, or helping others to avoid a mistake.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

More....


Look at the pictures here, they will enable you to easily wrap your mind around WHY you cannot sand and buff your car's factory paint to remove these types of defects - despite what YouTube experts say.


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/87410-clearcoats-thin-mike-phillips.html)



:)

[DLandes14]

Mike,

Thank you for the reply. Mine is definitely looking like the type 2 etching unfortunately. I wonder if I can at least minimize the appearance some with a light wet sanding and polish?

[Mike Phillips]

And last but not least....



Here's what I've been typing and saying for years, only those that have went through the clear layer of paint on their own car or a customer's car will truly understand.....


Words cannot describe the heart-sinking feeling that overwhelms you when you discover you've burned through the paint -Mike Phillips



Been there, done that, don't ever want to do it again.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

How would you attack these? I've read about and watched some videos on repairing bird poop spots but they never seemed to be legitimately scratched like this.



You can fix Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etchings as they are limited to the upper surface. Thus a person cold make a video on removing this type of defect.






I can feel the little cracks with my nail so I'm afraid they'll probably have to be wet sanded.



Nope. Once you said you could FEEL them with your fingernail it was game over.





I've done a lot of research and I know some people familiar with polishing to the point where I think I am comfortable with doing the wet sanding myself if need be.

Just gonna go slow and start with the highest grit possible and work my way down if need be.




Here's what I say,

Sanding removes paint.
Compounding removes paint.
Polishing removes a little paint.

Soon or later, you're going to turn your buffing pad over and see the color of the basecoat. This is a really bad sign.





What I don't know is if it will end up requiring some sort of touch up paint. Will that become apparent after wet sanding?



My guess from experience, if you try and sand a little using say, 3M Trizact #3000 and successfully remove your sanding marks it will look better but it won't look like NOTHING ever happened.

If you sand carefully but then buff through the clear during the compounding or polishing step, you will have turned a mole hill into a mountain.

Sanding a defect like this and then trying to add touch-up paint in an effort to make the problem visually disappear, in my experience, simply isn't going to work.

I'm all for you trying and if it works, then please document with pictures and share the steps you used.






Those little etching marks are so fine it's hard to tell really how deep they are. Sorry for the long post.

I appreciate any advice.

:)


I wish you luck...


:)

[FUNX650]

More...


Here's your picture only in full size so it's easier to see.


This shows the Type II Fracture/Wrinkled Etching.

It cannot be fixed.


Type II Fracture/Wrinkled Etching

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/attachments/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/68219d1571096808-how-repair-clear-coat-damage-bird-poop-20191009_173145-jpg



You will never find an expert on YouTube showing you how to fix it because the fractures go DEEP INTO the clear layer of paint.

Anyone that tries to sand this type of defect flat and then buff out their sanding marks will sand and then buff through the clear layer of paint.

If they filmed this, they would end up deleting the video footage as it would show them to be a fool.

The safest thing to do is polish it lightly and then seal the paint and live with it.

If you cannot live with it, then consider having the panel re-painted. A budge repaint to an average size car hood would be a low of $300.00 and you can go as high as you want. The more you pay, if you do your research, the better the paint job you will get.



Never any fun to be the bearer of bad news. It is rewarding to have been doing this so long that you have the experience to know what can and what cannot be done and then avoiding, or helping others to avoid a mistake.



:)
When Optimum Clear Coat Restorer first
came to market, this is the kind of damage,
that I sure thought, was one of its intended
repair-purposes...


Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,

Thank you for the reply. Mine is definitely looking like the type 2 etching unfortunately. I wonder if I can at least minimize the appearance some with a light wet sanding and polish?



My thoughts are, because the fractured areas are like cracks in the paint, when you sand you won't remove them, you'll just uncover more of the crack. In the process you'll remove clear paint.

This is simply one of the types of paint defects there are no easy, quick or simple remedies.

I've seen this with bird droppings and I think once in a while tree sap. All trees a different and thus the sap is different.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

When Optimum Clear Coat Restorer first
came to market, this is the kind of damage,
that I sure thought, was one of its intended
repair-purposes...


Bob


If I see Dr. David Ghoudussi at SEMA I'll ask him.


:)

[FUNX650]

If I see Dr. David Ghoudussi at SEMA I'll ask him.


:)
Thank you Mike.


Bob