HELP! Can't get rid of haze

[mcwilly]

After polishing to remove light swirls, scratches and baked-in mud from my truck, I cant get rid of the haze. It's a 2012 F150 Tuxedo black. It's always been cared for, coated, maintained but after spending several weeks with 90% of it's time being off-road, it was time to do some correcting. It has mud stains that have been baked in the sun and scratches from weeds, bushes, thorns, etc.
So yesterday I washed and clayed the vehicle and wiped down with IPA that I normally use. I started out using a white hex logic pad with Griots Correcting Cream with the Griots BOSS 15mm polisher on speed 5. After 3-4 passes, the imperfections were removed (including the mud stains) from the hood test section. So I moved on and completed the hood. Using the same setup (with a fresh pad), I went to the driver side. For some reason, the residue was VERY hard to remove. I even gave it some extra time to cure. After removing it, there was pretty bad haze. Not too concerned, I moved onto the door. This time it was even MORE difficult to remove and the leftover haze was way worse. Wiped the panels down with my IPA and CarPro Eraser with no change. So I thought I'd change pads.
I tried an orange hex logic pad with Griots correcting cream. Orange hex logic pad with Griots perfecting cream. White and orange hex logic pad with Griots complete compound. No change, the haze was still there. I even tried a blue hex logic pad with Griots correcting cream. Nada. (edit: I also tried a mf pad with perfecting cream). Wiped it down with IPA and CarPro eraser again and still nothing. Out of desperation I tried spraying Megs waterless wash/wax on it. It actually removed much of the haze, but since I plan on coating with CarPro cquartz when I'm done, I cant leave a spray wash/wax on as my lsp. I also tried to wash the panels again using dawn and mf mitt. Haze is still there. It was getting late and I was beyond frustrated so I gave up for the night.
So to start today, I picked up some Megs Ultimate compound and Ultimate polish to see if that would help. Nobody had 105 or 205 on the shelves and of course I cant order anything online in time.
The mud stains that were removed from the hood yesterday, are now back! I dont get it! Any suggestions? My only thought for today is to slow the speed down on the polisher.
I tried to get the haze with the camera, but it was difficult to capture...this is the best I could do:
67700677016770267703

[TTQ B4U]

What other pads do you have?

CarPro Essence on a white/softer polishing pad and you'll be golden. It's a great base for their coatings.

[Mike lambert]

If the product residue is difficult to remove, shrink your work area. You are getting a lot of paint residue and that makes it difficult. Slow the machine down, and clean the pad after every section. Also, you are only using a compound? If the compound removes the defects only to leave haze, you need to polish and refine. Don’t condemn the product until you’re certain you’ve dialed everything else.

[mcwilly]

If the product residue is difficult to remove, shrink your work area. You are getting a lot of paint residue and that makes it difficult. Slow the machine down, and clean the pad after every section. Also, you are only using a compound? If the compound removes the defects only to leave haze, you need to polish and refine. Don’t condemn the product until you’re certain you’ve dialed everything else.

Yes, just the compounds I mentioned. Since I picked up Megs Ultimate Polish, I'll start off with that on the panels with a white hex logic. Thanks! Heading out to the garage as we speak. Thankfully it's only 98 degrees in Dallas today :help:


What other pads do you have?

CarPro Essence on a white/softer polishing pad and you'll be golden. It's a great base for their coatings.

Hex logic yellow, orange, white, blue, black. Griots BOSS microfiber, orange, black.

[SWETM]

Seems like you have some kind of film on the paint. When you mentioned that you let the Correcting Cream cure a little longer. Do you let this dry before you wipe it off after you have polished normaly too?

Seems also a little strange that you didn't get the mud stain off from the washing and claying. What car soap do you use when you wash it before polishing? And did the clay glide easier and easier the more aggitations you did and so it glide very easy with the clay lube when you moved to a new section?
That the mud stain came back the day after. Happens sometimes with water spots like it looks like on the hood picture has done. It can be that where you drove in the mud is very high of minerals. So it baked into water spots. And since the mud seems to be been on for a while. It's a very good at holding moisture. And this can in worst cases soaking in to the clearcoat.
Did you drive in that red mud that is in some places in the US?

What protection did you have before and how long has it been on?

Many questions and no solutions LOL. But we need to be knowing a little more to figure out what can have happened. Have you polishing the truck before?

And don't use dawn as a wash at any time. It's very hard to rinse it off and leaves a lot of surfactants left on the paint.

Do you have any alkaline based degreaser at hand or an APC? If so do a test spot and spray it on the paint and lightly wipe it in with a mf towel after a couple of minutes. Then rinse it off thoroughly. And if it didn't make any difference in the spot. Use a tar and tree sap remover like Stoners Tarminator. Spray it on the paint and be carefull to not get any run off on plastic trim. Wipe it in directly with a mf towel and see if it's desolves anything. Do the test spot low on a side panel. And don't let them dry on the paint and you will be fine with useing these chemical products.

Is the temperature high where you are at and is it humid conditions?

/ Tony

[TTQ B4U]

Hex logic yellow, orange, white, blue, black. Griots BOSS microfiber, orange, black.

Use the hex logic white pads with Essence and thank me later ;) any good fine polish will work but I love essence.

[rst08]

mud stains? looks like the same bird etchings ive been dealing with.

[mcwilly]

Seems like you have some kind of film on the paint. When you mentioned that you let the Correcting Cream cure a little longer. Do you let this dry before you wipe it off after you have polished normaly too?

Seems also a little strange that you didn't get the mud stain off from the washing and claying. What car soap do you use when you wash it before polishing? And did the clay glide easier and easier the more aggitations you did and so it glide very easy with the clay lube when you moved to a new section?
That the mud stain came back the day after. Happens sometimes with water spots like it looks like on the hood picture has done. It can be that where you drove in the mud is very high of minerals. So it baked into water spots. And since the mud seems to be been on for a while. It's a very good at holding moisture. And this can in worst cases soaking in to the clearcoat.
Did you drive in that red mud that is in some places in the US?

What protection did you have before and how long has it been on?

Many questions and no solutions LOL. But we need to be knowing a little more to figure out what can have happened. Have you polishing the truck before?

And don't use dawn as a wash at any time. It's very hard to rinse it off and leaves a lot of surfactants left on the paint.

Do you have any alkaline based degreaser at hand or an APC? If so do a test spot and spray it on the paint and lightly wipe it in with a mf towel after a couple of minutes. Then rinse it off thoroughly. And if it didn't make any difference in the spot. Use a tar and tree sap remover like Stoners Tarminator. Spray it on the paint and be carefull to not get any run off on plastic trim. Wipe it in directly with a mf towel and see if it's desolves anything. Do the test spot low on a side panel. And don't let them dry on the paint and you will be fine with useing these chemical products.

Is the temperature high where you are at and is it humid conditions?

/ Tony

So I started yesterday around 4pm and worked through the night until 7:30 this morning. And I still didn't get it all done. This is BY FAR the most difficult, mind-blowing and aggravating correction I have EVER done. And of all things, it's my personal vehicle, wth lol

To answer some of your questions
I used CG Honeydew shampoo. Same shampoo/soap I've used on over a dozen vehicles over the past few months. When I clayed it, it didnt have any grit or grab to it at all no matter what I went over which I thought was odd but there was crud being collected on the clay.
I let one compound section cure a little longer just to try something different to get better results.....not something I normally do when compounding/polishing. And unfortunately, yes, it is/was the reddish clay mud that was on my truck. It was covered pretty good too because I got stuck more than once lol.
Honestly, I can't remember what the last thing was I protected it with...that was my first thought lol. I applied HydroSilex months ago and have since been topping that with liquid wax or glaze depending on my mood that day. Probably a glaze.
And I forgot to mention, I did do a test with acid based wheel cleaner with a mf on the hood with no change.
I also forgot to mention that I applied one of the Griot's compounds (forgot which one) and it was like I smeared on Elmers glue. That was fun.
I was completely friggin stumped! And frustrated. Still am. EVERY SINGLE panel behaved differently than the previous one as I moved along the truck. I could correct the finish with any compound/pad combo depending on the degree of correction. But every single inch would have a haze after the correction which was a guessing game at each section on what method would work to remove it. The front quarter panel came clear with a hex white pad, Ultimate compound on speed 6. The front/upper section of the driver door came clear with orange hex pad, Ultimate compound on speed 3 with zero pressure. The bottom/front section of the same door came clear with orange hex pad between speed 4-5. Part of my tailgate came clear with a hex YELLOW and Ultimate polish on speed 4! It was guessing game on the entire truck. There was no chance at a one-step....anywhere.
The part that really made it frustrating was after I would correct it and look it over with my light, it would look fine. BUT once I wiped it down with my IPA or Eraser or a QD, the haze would appear. I tried different dilution ratios with my IPA and different types/brands/GSM mf towels. I literally spent two hours just on the tailgate....which I thought was gonna be the easiest part. I always like the rear of any vehicle, especially a truck or SUV to look it's best since that's what people see when they're sitting behind somebody at a red light with the sun beaming down.....or at night when their headlights are hitting it....that's when you're gonna see imperfections. Or at least that's what I always focus on at red lights or driving behind somebody LOL
In the end I got all but the hood and roof corrected and coated with Cquartz. My plan was to knock that out this evening but it's 100 degrees with a heat index of 111 so it'll have to wait lol. And a chance of rain tomorrow.
I have never had anything remotely similar to this happen before I and I hope like hell I dont ever again lol. My garage looks like a detail shop exploded.

[mcwilly]

Seems like you have some kind of film on the paint. When you mentioned that you let the Correcting Cream cure a little longer. Do you let this dry before you wipe it off after you have polished normaly too?

Seems also a little strange that you didn't get the mud stain off from the washing and claying. What car soap do you use when you wash it before polishing? And did the clay glide easier and easier the more aggitations you did and so it glide very easy with the clay lube when you moved to a new section?
That the mud stain came back the day after. Happens sometimes with water spots like it looks like on the hood picture has done. It can be that where you drove in the mud is very high of minerals. So it baked into water spots. And since the mud seems to be been on for a while. It's a very good at holding moisture. And this can in worst cases soaking in to the clearcoat.
Did you drive in that red mud that is in some places in the US?

What protection did you have before and how long has it been on?

Many questions and no solutions LOL. But we need to be knowing a little more to figure out what can have happened. Have you polishing the truck before?

And don't use dawn as a wash at any time. It's very hard to rinse it off and leaves a lot of surfactants left on the paint.

Do you have any alkaline based degreaser at hand or an APC? If so do a test spot and spray it on the paint and lightly wipe it in with a mf towel after a couple of minutes. Then rinse it off thoroughly. And if it didn't make any difference in the spot. Use a tar and tree sap remover like Stoners Tarminator. Spray it on the paint and be carefull to not get any run off on plastic trim. Wipe it in directly with a mf towel and see if it's desolves anything. Do the test spot low on a side panel. And don't let them dry on the paint and you will be fine with useing these chemical products.

Is the temperature high where you are at and is it humid conditions?

/ Tony

So I started yesterday around 4pm and worked through the night until 7:30 this morning. And I still didn't get it all done. This is BY FAR the most difficult, mind-blowing and aggravating correction I have EVER done. And of all things, it's my personal vehicle, wth lol

To answer some of your questions
I used CG Honeydew shampoo. Same shampoo/soap I've used on over a dozen vehicles over the past few months. When I clayed it, it didnt have any grit or grab to it at all no matter what I went over which I thought was odd but there was crud being collected on the clay.
I let one compound section cure a little longer just to try something different to get better results.....not something I normally do when compounding/polishing. And unfortunately, yes, it is/was the reddish clay mud that was on my truck. It was covered pretty good too because I got stuck more than once lol.
Honestly, I can't remember what the last thing was I protected it with...that was my first thought lol. I applied HydroSilex months ago and have since been topping that with liquid wax or glaze depending on my mood that day. Probably a glaze.
And I forgot to mention, I did do a test with acid based wheel cleaner with a mf on the hood with no change.
I also forgot to mention that I applied one of the Griot's compounds (forgot which one) and it was like I smeared on Elmers glue. That was fun.
I was completely friggin stumped! And frustrated. Still am. EVERY SINGLE panel behaved differently than the previous one as I moved along the truck. I could correct the finish with any compound/pad combo depending on the degree of correction. But every single inch would have a haze after the correction which was a guessing game at each section on what method would work to remove it. The front quarter panel came clear with a hex white pad, Ultimate compound on speed 6. The front/upper section of the driver door came clear with orange hex pad, Ultimate compound on speed 3 with zero pressure. The bottom/front section of the same door came clear with orange hex pad between speed 4-5. Part of my tailgate came clear with a hex YELLOW and Ultimate polish on speed 4! It was guessing game on the entire truck. There was no chance at a one-step....anywhere.
The part that really made it frustrating was after I would correct it and look it over with my light, it would look fine. BUT once I wiped it down with my IPA or Eraser or a QD, the haze would appear. I tried different dilution ratios with my IPA and different types/brands/GSM mf towels. I literally spent two hours just on the tailgate....which I thought was gonna be the easiest part. I always like the rear of any vehicle, especially a truck or SUV to look it's best since that's what people see when they're sitting behind somebody at a red light with the sun beaming down.....or at night when their headlights are hitting it....that's when you're gonna see imperfections. Or at least that's what I always focus on at red lights or driving behind somebody LOL
In the end I got all but the hood and roof corrected and coated with Cquartz. My plan was to knock that out this evening but it's 100 degrees with a heat index of 111 so it'll have to wait lol. And a chance of rain tomorrow.
I have never had anything remotely similar to this happen before I and I hope like hell I dont ever again lol. My garage looks like a detail shop exploded.

[mbkite]

Try a cleaner wax meguiars white wax or mirror bright over the counter stuff

[DirtyCanuck]

Polishing with a compound and aggressive pads will haze a lot of vehicles I’ve found. I’ve never had an issue polishing the haze, or rotary holograms out with a good fine polish and foam polishing pads.
After you correct with a “compound”, you have to finish with a “polish” to refine it and get rid of the haze and marring left by the more aggressive compound.
I find if you slow your hand speed right down when you are on the polish step it helps a lot in the end product.

[Mike lambert]

You’re trying to one step a very difficult paint in difficult weather with less than optimal pads. Those pads have grooves I believe. It’s possible that you have residue in the grooves that are causing problems also.

[SWETM]

Ultimate Polish has some fillers in it and can give you missleading results. And I would avoid to use it before a ceramic coating. They are pretty heavy on polishing oils that more than often needs to be wiped off 2 times with a IPA/ panel prep wipe product. Ultimate Compound is a light cutting compound if you don't work it for a long time. Around how many passes per sections are you doing?

When it comes to the pads I'm not surprised that you have problems with the finishing with the orange and yellow foam pads. They are heavy cutting and compound pads so they can leave the haze you have on it's own and not depending on the polishes you use. Black and light blue and white is the cut from the least aggressive and up. On some sensitive paints a white hex logic pad can be leaving the haze too afterwards. Have your truck being repainted at any time?

Try to find or order a finishing polish/ polish like M210 or GG Perfecting Cream or Sonax Perfect Finish or Menzerna SF3500 or you get the point a quality one. Maybe it's so that the texture on the hex logic pads don't suits your paint. So get a finishing pad and a light polishing pad that has a flat foam. The small adjustments can be what's you need. Cause obviously the paint has too much of defects on it and the paint don't suit it to be one stepping it. And at least me when I one step it's about to get a finish that is clear of any haze. If this combo also takes out the defects or to an acceptable level of defects removal it's great. Otherwise it's just to do a cutting step and finishing step on their own. And darker colored paints is harder to get away with 1 step it as the clarity is so important to leave you satisfied. For personal vehicals I don't 1 step them if not the finishing polish take care of the defects as well of cause. If you feel to be takeing the risk of polishing with the UP and the risk is that it can be messing with the coatings bonding. Try the black hex logic pad and UP and speed 3.5-4.5 and armspeed of an inch per second and do 3-5 passes. If it's Carpro eraser you have use that and spray it on the polished section you just did and wipe it off with a short nap mf towel and maybe a second time with more Eraser and a plush mf towel to wipe it off with. If you don't get a clear finish by this. Then it's time to switch out the polish and still not getting there the pads. I would recommend you to do both switched out. I would go over the other panels you polished if they still have a slightly haze on them to clear them up when you have it dialed in.

You seems to be experienced but mentions it either way that don't forget to shake up the polishes bottles. The abrasives falls down easier when it's hot outside. So I shake it up good right before I apply it on the pad.

Have not experienced my self with this red mud and almost like clay when wet. Some says it can even discolor the clearcoat if you are unlucky. Did the acid wheel cleaner make any difference on the spots? Different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt and contaminants is something that's important to know. So try out what I suggested before with an APC/ alkaline based degreaser this can be a citrus based degreaser too and then a petroleum based degreaser which useally is what's tar remover is made of. I was going to suggest the next move to be the acid based cleaner. Those 3 chemicals is a base of different way to desolve or release the bond on the dirt you are removing. Could be worth after the cleaning with these to do a wash where they have been to neutralise any leftovers from them. And put the truck in the sun again so more off the stain can come out if it's more down in the clearcoat.

[Mike Phillips]

This is why you do a TEST SPOT.

Dial-in a process that works perfect to one small section of paint before buffing out the entire car or even an entire panel.


You PROVE your process before going any further.


:)

[mcwilly]

You’re trying to one step a very difficult paint in difficult weather with less than optimal pads. Those pads have grooves I believe. It’s possible that you have residue in the grooves that are causing problems also.
I was HOPING for a one step lol. What you call 'difficult' weather is just 'typical' weather this time of year in Dallas lol. I need a bigger garage that so my truck will fit and I can install central A/C. I dont mind having to do a 2 or even 3 step, but this was getting crazy. And yes, the pads have grooves. Even though I clean the pads thoroughly before storing them, I cleaned them again (my white pads) when this started. And I do plan on purchasing some new pads since most of my pads have a lot of miles on them now.


Ultimate Polish has some fillers in it and can give you missleading results. And I would avoid to use it before a ceramic coating. Too late, it's already done and coated :laughing: They are pretty heavy on polishing oils that more than often needs to be wiped off 2 times with a IPA/ panel prep wipe product. Ultimate Compound is a light cutting compound if you don't work it for a long time. Around how many passes per sections are you doing?

When it comes to the pads I'm not surprised that you have problems with the finishing with the orange and yellow foam pads. They are heavy cutting and compound pads so they can leave the haze you have on it's own and not depending on the polishes you use. Black and light blue and white is the cut from the least aggressive and up. On some sensitive paints a white hex logic pad can be leaving the haze too afterwards. Have your truck being repainted at any time?
Yeah, I even dropped down to a blue at one point hoping it would help, but no luck. Since the truck was offroad 90% of it's time for several weeks, there were tons of scratches from waist high weeds/grass, thorns, branches, etc. Some areas were worse than others, hence the need for so many different pads. It's all factory paint except for the rear driver side door that got backed into a couple of years ago.

Try to find or order a finishing polish/ polish like M210 or GG Perfecting Cream or Sonax Perfect Finish or Menzerna SF3500 or you get the point a quality one. Maybe it's so that the texture on the hex logic pads don't suits your paint. So get a finishing pad and a light polishing pad that has a flat foam. -noted- Thanks! The small adjustments can be what's you need. Cause obviously the paint has too much of defects on it and the paint don't suit it to be one stepping it. And at least me when I one step it's about to get a finish that is clear of any haze. If this combo also takes out the defects or to an acceptable level of defects removal it's great. Otherwise it's just to do a cutting step and finishing step on their own. And darker colored paints is harder to get away with 1 step it as the clarity is so important to leave you satisfied. For personal vehicals I don't 1 step them if not the finishing polish take care of the defects as well of cause. If you feel to be takeing the risk of polishing with the UP and the risk is that it can be messing with the coatings bonding. Try the black hex logic pad and UP and speed 3.5-4.5 and armspeed of an inch per second and do 3-5 passes. If it's Carpro eraser you have use that and spray it on the polished section you just did and wipe it off with a short nap mf towel and maybe a second time with more Eraser and a plush mf towel to wipe it off with. If you don't get a clear finish by this. Then it's time to switch out the polish and still not getting there the pads. I would recommend you to do both switched out. I would go over the other panels you polished if they still have a slightly haze on them to clear them up when you have it dialed in.

You seems to be experienced but mentions it either way that don't forget to shake up the polishes bottles. The abrasives falls down easier when it's hot outside. So I shake it up good right before I apply it on the pad.

Have not experienced my self with this red mud and almost like clay when wet. Some says it can even discolor the clearcoat if you are unlucky. Did the acid wheel cleaner make any difference on the spots? No, it didnt make any difference. Different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt and contaminants is something that's important to know. So try out what I suggested before with an APC/ alkaline based degreaser this can be a citrus based degreaser too and then a petroleum based degreaser which useally is what's tar remover is made of. I was going to suggest the next move to be the acid based cleaner. Those 3 chemicals is a base of different way to desolve or release the bond on the dirt you are removing. Could be worth after the cleaning with these to do a wash where they have been to neutralise any leftovers from them. And put the truck in the sun again so more off the stain can come out if it's more down in the clearcoat.


This is why you do a TEST SPOT.

Dial-in a process that works perfect to one small section of paint before buffing out the entire car or even an entire panel.


You PROVE your process before going any further.


:)

The test spot worked great...I was able to finish out the entire hood. It was the next section that didnt want to cooperate lol. And I didnt have anything else left to try until the next morning when I picked up the Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Compound. Since it was only a haze, I didnt concern myself with it too much....wont make that mistake again. But even still, every section behaved differently and took a different approach.