Ceramic Coatings: Pinnacle Black Label vs CQuartz Lite

[swanicyouth]

Must be user error. Need to clay and try Resest! You didn't use enough... You probably used too much. There were polishing oils on the panel & it washed away! Your applicator and/or towel was contaminated lol. Bottom line is nobody knows it's a crapshoot.

The dude from Dallas Paint Correction brought up an interesting point that sounds legit to me in one of his videos. He said something like silicone beads water & the ceramic/silica/glass whatevers in coatings don't really. But, people want to see water beading. So, some silicone or similar beading junk is in the coating. This quickly washes away though & you're left with just meh water behavior and no real proof the coating is left. Then they make toppers so you can wipe on some more magical beading stuff. Repeat the cycle over and over.

TBH, since all this stuff is smoke and mirrors and nobody who makes this stuff will confirm what is going on - this explanation makes as much sense to me as any. I went through the same meh water behavior & poor longevity with this stuff & basically trashed it.

You can spend $200 MORE dollars & top it with Synergy (which I like), or just use wax of your choice.... or better yet Sonax BSD.... Which made me feel like I got hosed buying into this coating lol.

[Mike Phillips]

Must be user error.




I remember when you first joined this forum in 2011. You had the normal newbie type questions.

Now days, when I read your posts - it seems you've become somewhat cynical?


Just an observation from your recent posting history.


:dunno:

[Mike Phillips]

Everything I've read mentioned "impressive water beading". I would not call it impressive in the least.





I just updated a thread I created here,

Mother Natures Car Wash and Ceramic Coatings (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/123581-mother-natures-car-wash-ceramic-coatings.html)



And here's what I posted....


I took these pictures last Thursday I believe. I was off on Friday, so I think it was Thursday. This would have been in the morning, about 7:30am as I walked through the parking lot to my car.

The Honda CR-V was in the shade.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/PBLCoatingWB_001.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/PBLCoatingWB_002.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/PBLCoatingWB_003.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/PBLCoatingWB_004.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/PBLCoatingWB_005.JPG


Near as my wife Stacy and I can tell we coated this back in November of 2018. It may have been September, but I doubt it was December. IF it was November of 2018 and as I type it's end of June of 2019, that's easily 7 months.


I'm not even a fan of water beading because it can lead to Type II water spots, either crater etchings or imprint rings, BUT if you are washing and drying your car, the surface tension makes washing faster and drying faster.


And coatings last longer and also look glassier than most waxes and sealants.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Everything I've read mentioned "impressive water beading". I would not call it impressive in the least. The hood did have spots so the heat could have caused the droplets to dry quickly, but the roof, trunk and back fenders had spotting too. Maybe I am expecting too much, but the ceramic coating seems inferior to wax in water-beading.




I'll send the link to this thread to Bobby and Andre. In the last year they have tested a LOT of products including doing lots of water beading tests.

Let's see if they have any insight. If you're not happy with the products, I'll put you in contact with customer care and they will either refund your money or exchange for something else.



One thing I know for sure though and that is quality ceramic coatings are the real deal. They are very unique in their application and their performance. So hang in there...





It looks like I can use a carnuba wax over the coating. Would your recommend a topper over a wax?




I never practice putting anything on my coated vehicles. I also don't teach that in my classes, nor do I ever recommend it in the blogosphere. In fact, I just answered a new member's questions here,

Question regarding Ceramic Pro Coating and other important information (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/123653-question-regarding-ceramic-pro-coating-other-important-information.html)


He asked similar questions about putting a wax over a coating or a topper of some sort. Here's what I posted,




>>>Begin copy and paste<<<





And, naturally, applying your favorite wax on top of any of these whether be it P21s or Pinnacle Sovereign, would that add any value or increase in shine/gloss?



I would say "no".

I would suggest reading more of my articles on this forum about coatings because I have covered this topic a LOT. Now follow me,

IF - IF you're going to pay to have a coating installed or spend that investment doing it yourself, then what you want on the car is the COATING an the characteristics and benefits IT provides. If you put a car wax on a coating you loose the benefits and characteristics of the coating and gain the benefits and characteristics of the wax.

A quality coating, properly installed also creates what I call,

The glassy look.

Waxes and sealants create a lot of GLOSS but in my opinion, a ceramic coating takes the appearance results to a tick higher level and that's the glassy look.


So ask your coating installer what they recommend for products and recommended maintenance.



>>>End of copy and paste<<<




I'm both transparent and consistent and I started posting how-to information on the Internet that I can document back to 1994, in Internet years, that's 25 years. In Dog Years, that's 175 years. Probably not as long as some but probably longer than most.

I don't have a history of misleading people.



:)

[Desertnate]

Everything I've read mentioned "impressive water beading". I would not call it impressive in the least. The hood did have spots so the heat could have caused the droplets to dry quickly, but the roof, trunk and back fenders had spotting too. Maybe I am expecting too much, but the ceramic coating seems inferior to wax in water-beading.

It looks like I can use a carnuba wax over the coating. Would your recommend a topper over a wax?

I'm running Carpro CQuartz UK on two cars and CanCoat on another right now and all three have spectacular beading. Unlike wax or sealant beads which were this large, fat, water beads, the coatings seem to product millions of tiny water balls which lightly rest on the surface and then roll off when the car moves or the wind blows.

Like Mike mentioned, surface conditions have a lot to do with beading. I've observed a heavy layer of dust or pollen kill most of the beading action, but it returns as soon as I wash the car.

As for water spots, I've not noticed any coating I've used spotting any worse than a sealant or wax. Most of the time it's less. Sprinklers will leave nasty spots on anything, but rain seems to be milder and leave little/no spotting. However, if the wind was blowing right after the rain and kicked up the dirt (I've seen it rain mud in cases like this), or the car was already dirty when it rained, you will have some dirt spots no matter what you use as an LSP. When the water evaporates, it will leave the trapped dirt behind.

[MSTucker]

Didn't mean to imply that I was misled. You've been extremely helpful in your comments and recommendations.

In reading Desertnate's comments below, I may have an issue with dust. I'm in Louisiana and the local weather man mentioned upper level dust over us right now. Not a common occurrence. I'm wondering if that came down in the rain and helped dry out the water drops more quickly and left the dust as spots.

I'll watch it over the next couple days and report back. Hopefully this was just a weird happening.

Thanks Mike.

[swanicyouth]

I remember when you first joined this forum in 2011. You had the normal newbie type questions.

Now days, when I read your posts - it seems you've become somewhat cynical?


Just an observation from your recent posting history.


:dunno:

Somewhat yes. On the other hand - I think Sonax BSD & Synergy are great products to top this with. They both work as well or better than advertised

[acuRAS82]

The car looks nice, nonetheless!

[Bobby B.]

So I used the Pinnacle Black Label coatings this weekend on my Toyota 86. Clayed, polished, and prepped paint before hand. Started with the windows - quick and easy. PBL went on easily and after about a minute was easy to buff out the high spots. Moved onto the wheels. I little more difficult only because most of the wheel is painted black. Pretty easy except for the multitude of nooks and crannies on these wheels. Found doing half the wheel at a time worked well. After doing glass and wheels, I felt confident in moving to the paint. I started behind rear wheel, just in case I screwed it up. Went on easily, but buffing out the high spots seemed to take a long time. I think that were two reasons - using too much of the coating and not waiting long enough for it to flash/dry. Bottle really doesnt tell you how much to use on your 2x2 area. I will say you use way more on the glass than you do on the paint. I found that using about 5 squirts on a 2x2 area worked best, with one squirt on the applicator. Also waiting a full minute seemed to let the high spots buff out easier. Probably took me about 2 hours to complete the paint. Very happy with the depth of the shine. Finished Saturday night and it rained this morning, so I'll see what it looks like this evening when the wife comes home.

Last note I would make is that it was hard to get every high spot off completely. I'm not sure if I missed them or if they formed overnight. The car was in my garage with two fluorescent lights (four tubes) and an LED desk light that I could use for spot checks. I went over the car MULTIPLE times with thick MF towels buffing any haze I saw and of course buffed out each panel as I worked them. Even so, when I pulled the car out the next afternoon in the sun, I found some hazing. Some areas were small, but others like the trunk and hood had large portions with a slight haze. I was very worried, but found I could buff them out. Luckily, I used a forgiving coating (PBL) and could get them out. Has anyone experienced this - slight hazing after leaving the coating overnight to cure? Is it normal or did I not buff enough or use too much coating?

The Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Paint Coating is one of the easiest coatings to work with and is an excellent choice for your new Toyota 86.

What polish, pads and polisher did you use to prep the paint surface? Hazing could be from your polishing step?

1-2 squirts on your coating applicator is plenty for a 2x2 section.

Excellent lighting at different angles works best for checking high spots. High spots are caused by too much product being applied. When you're working the coating side to side and up and down, excess coating builds up and needs to be leveled. if not, the excess coating causes a high spot. Quickly level any high spots with a short nap microfiber towel. If you've missed any high spots and the coating has cured, you can always polish the high spots out and re-coat the panel.

[Bobby B.]

Thanks for the encouragement and reply Mike.

My wife took the 86 to work this morning looking great. It rained on the way there and she barely needed to use the wipers as the water was just flying off the windshield. Fast forward to lunch time and she calls telling me there are spots all over the car. See attached pics. She arrived at work around 7am and left about 4.5 hours later. Not sure how much it rained or didnt while at work, but I know it rained on the way there. The spots came right off and the finish is still ultra smooth. But, why would the water not bead up? I mean I've waxed multiple vehicles and water will bead on them overnight in my garage. This ceramic coating wasn't able to keep the water beading on it for 4 hours after initial installation. Did I do something wrong?

Driving a car in the rain will kick up all sorts of road contaminates onto the paint surface of your vehicle. Dirt, dust, pollen, sand, oil, etc.. Looking at your pictures the "water spots" look like dried up dirt or pollen and will easily be removed.

Paint Coatings will bead and sheet water. While driving the vehicle in the rain you will see the coating sheeting water. Also while the vehicle is parked in heavy rain it will sheet water. While the vehicle is parked in light rain it will bead water. The Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Paint Coating will have really nice tight tall beads.

I would not apply a carnauba wax on top of a ceramic coating. If you want to top your coating i would recommend an SiO2 Spray Sealant.

[Mike Phillips]

For everyone that will read this thread into the future....

After you coat your car or pay to have it coated, the most common question I here is,


How long will the coating last?


To help answer this question, I wrote this article.


How long will a ceramic coating last on my car? (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-to-articles-by-mike-phillips/123663-how-long-will-ceramic-coating-last-my-car.html)





:)

[SWETM]

You mentioned you had a problem with high spots that was leveled later. If you are notice problems with the water behavior going forward. This is where you could have a problem when you leveled the high spots later you could have been messing up the hydrophobic layer of the coating before it where able to cure hard enough. But this is a big if.

So just keep cool and see how it behaves the next coming weeks. Some coatings can be getting a higher water behavior after a week or so when it's been curing even more and some can take longer to fully cure. But as long as you stay away from any kind of chemicals other than the recommended topper which useally have a window of application after the coating has been applyied. Or you need to be waiting the stated time before you can apply the topper outside of this window of time. So keep calm and let it play out for a week or 2. The first week is only to gently drying it if it gets wet. But with your situation with a high content of dust in the air. I would wait until the first week after application has gone by. And do a thorough wash and hopefully the dirt spots cleans of easly.

So it can be a problem and don't be a problem. Let the time go and you will see what it is. Hopefully it's just a normal behavior and you will see it works better down the road. Just keep an eye on the behavior and see where it gets you later.

Looks great in the picture!

/ Tony

[Mike Phillips]

To MSTucker,

Please keep us updated with this new use of a ceramic paint coating experience.


Also - check this out,

KILLER CAR WASH - Wolfgang Uber SiO2 Coating Wash (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews-by-mike-phillips/123690-killer-car-wash-wolfgang-uber-sio2-coating-wash.html)



I can't recommend this enough for a maintenance wash. PM me your shipping address and I'll send you a bottle to test out.



:)

[MSTucker]

I certainly will keep you posted. Finish is still very smooth and looks great. The dust that was in our air has moved over to Texas so I think it was just an anomaly that spots developed after the first rain on the PBL coating.