Sonax Profiline Actifoam energy might be a little misleading?

[fightnews]

I thought it was a high foaming shampoo like Q2Foam or Gtech citrus foam. The add page says that its a "Shampoo that is safe on coatings and wax and will not break down protection"

So the first thing I noticed out the box is the big label on the front saying "DANGER CORROSIVE: CAUSES BURNS ECT ECT"

Also says on back to wear rubber gloves and vapor mask. Do not come in contact with skin ect ect. Kinda tough directions on a car wash shampoo. I have a hard time believing you can use this once a week without degrading a carnuba wax.

Not to mention I don't know to many people that wear a mask and rubber gloves to wash their car.

I understand its a concentrate but so are all shampoo's. Even though its made for a foam gun their are still directions for hand washing with a mitt after applying foam or in a bucket.

So what is the deal with this stuff? Sounds like more of a prep/stripping APC type soap to me. Can it actually be used on waxes and coatings without degrading? Sounds far fetched.

How strict is the dilution rate because the dilution in a foam cannon bottle is diff rent from what the dilution is actually coming out of the gun. Which dilution are they talking about?


Take a look at the add page. SONAX Profiline Actifoam Energy - 1L (https://www.autogeek.net/sonax-profiline-actifoam-energy.html)

[custmsprty]

I found the sds sheet, unfortunately it's in German. But the 2 Butyl is most likely one of the reasons for the warnings. I've not seen a car wash with butyl in it before, it's a very aggressive degreaser in it's own right.

Gefährliche Inhaltsstoffe:
CAS: 68891-38-3
NLP: 500-234-8
Reg.nr.: 01-2119488639-16-xxxx
Alkohol, C12-14, ethoxyliert, sulfat, Natriumsalz
(>1< 2,5 mol EO)
Eye Dam. 1, H318; Skin Irrit. 2, H315; Aquatic Chronic 3,
H412
15 - <20%
CAS: 111-76-2
EINECS: 203-905-0
Reg.nr.: 01-2119475108-36-xxxx
2-Butoxy-ethanol
Acute Tox. 4, H302; Acute Tox. 4, H312; Acute Tox. 4, H332;
Skin Irrit. 2, H315; Eye Irrit. 2, H319
3 - <5%
CAS: 308062-28-4
Reg.nr.: 01-2119490061-47-xxxx
Amine, C12-14 (geradzahlig)-Alkyldimethyl, N-Oxide
Eye Dam. 1, H318; Aquatic Acute 1, H400; Aquatic
Chronic 2, H411; Acute Tox. 4, H302; Skin Irrit. 2, H315
< 1,00%
CAS: 32210-23-4
EINECS: 250-954-9
Reg.nr.: 01-2119976286-24-xxxx
4-tert-Butylcyclohexyl-acetat
Skin Sens. 1B, H317
< 0,25%
Verordnung (EG) Nr. 648/2004 über Detergenzien / Kennzeichnung der Inhaltsstoffe
anionische Tenside ≥15 - <30%
nichtionische Tenside <5%
Duftstoffe, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Methylisothiazolinone, Benzisothiazolinone, Sodium

[fightnews]

I found the sds sheet, unfortunately it's in German. But the 2 Butyl is most likely one of the reasons for the warnings. I've not seen a car wash with butyl in it before, it's a very aggressive degreaser in it's own right.

Gefährliche Inhaltsstoffe:
CAS: 68891-38-3
NLP: 500-234-8
Reg.nr.: 01-2119488639-16-xxxx
Alkohol, C12-14, ethoxyliert, sulfat, Natriumsalz
(>1< 2,5 mol EO)
Eye Dam. 1, H318; Skin Irrit. 2, H315; Aquatic Chronic 3,
H412
15 - <20%
CAS: 111-76-2
EINECS: 203-905-0
Reg.nr.: 01-2119475108-36-xxxx
2-Butoxy-ethanol
Acute Tox. 4, H302; Acute Tox. 4, H312; Acute Tox. 4, H332;
Skin Irrit. 2, H315; Eye Irrit. 2, H319
3 - <5%
CAS: 308062-28-4
Reg.nr.: 01-2119490061-47-xxxx
Amine, C12-14 (geradzahlig)-Alkyldimethyl, N-Oxide
Eye Dam. 1, H318; Aquatic Acute 1, H400; Aquatic
Chronic 2, H411; Acute Tox. 4, H302; Skin Irrit. 2, H315
< 1,00%
CAS: 32210-23-4
EINECS: 250-954-9
Reg.nr.: 01-2119976286-24-xxxx
4-tert-Butylcyclohexyl-acetat
Skin Sens. 1B, H317
< 0,25%
Verordnung (EG) Nr. 648/2004 über Detergenzien / Kennzeichnung der Inhaltsstoffe
anionische Tenside ≥15 - <30%
nichtionische Tenside <5%
Duftstoffe, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Methylisothiazolinone, Benzisothiazolinone, Sodium

Thanks bud I appreciate you looking that up. The German probably explains the marketing description discrepancies. Probably just the translation. I wont be using it as a weekly wash but it will probably be a good prep soap.

[fightnews]

Has anybody used this stuff yet? If you have can you please report on it for me? I want to use it for a filthy truck tomorrow. I know it has the acid but I'm assuming its safe to use in a bucket without gloves? I know dilution is important.

[fightnews]

SONAX Profiline Actifoam Energy features:
• 1:30 dilution ratio – extreme concentration allows you to adjust the product to fit your needs.
• Foam gun or cannon ready – quick and easy washing!
• pH-neutral doesn’t affect existing wax or paint coating.

Directions for use:
• Dilute with water at a ration of 1:30.
• Add the water/concentrate mixture to a foam gun or cannon.
• Spray SONAX Profiline Actifoam Energy across your vehicle, coating top to bottom.
• Depending on level of contamination, use a clean microfiber wash mitt to wash the surface using a side to side, back and forth motion, working one panel at a time. • Rinse and dry.


Is it even possible to have a neutral car wash with this soap? The dilution they are saying is not realistic. I guarantee if I put a 1/2 ounce of this in my foam cannon it won't make any foam. certainly not enough to be considered a foam wash. It usually takes 2-3 ounces of soap to get anything decent. So assuming I'm going to use it stronger it must degrade a wax? At least a little bit.

I also notice they say to wash 1 panel at a time. I'm assuming this is because its to strong to leave on the car for a normal washing period? I will use it that way because I don't think i'll have enough cloud cover to do the whole truck then rinse.


If anyone has any tips or advice feel free to chime in. All constructive criticism in welcomed.

[FUNX650]

Has anybody used this stuff yet?
If you have can you please report on it for me?

I want to use it for a filthy truck tomorrow.

Here is its SDS in English:

https://sdb.sonax.biz/cms-themes-sichblatt-data/pdf/sdb_Z61801134-PROFI_-_SONAX_PROFILINE_ACTIFOAM_ENERGY_%28GB%29EN.pdf



I know it has the acid...

Referring back to the above SDS...
•What is the acid that concerns you?



I'm assuming its safe to use
in a bucket without gloves?

IMO: No.
(On second thought: you decide.)

The SDS recommends the following:

”SONAX PROFILINE ACTIFOAM ENERGY”
•Protection of hands:
-Protective gloves

•Material of gloves:
Nitrile rubber, NBR

•Recommended thickness of the
material: ≥ 0.4 mm



I know dilution is important.

Based solely on Sonax’s recommended dilution
ratio...[as depicted in the below picture (from
the back side of this product’s container)]...

•I’m going to suggest that when using
a 5 gallon bucket for hand washing:

-If you mix-up a solution consisting of:
~3.5 oz. of Sonax Actifoam—and—4 gal. of Water

-then you will be well within the ballpark
to safely hand-wash your vehicle, IMO.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/DDB0FA3E-C53B-4A20-8B1C-347627345A86.jpeg



Bob

[fightnews]

Here is its SDS in English:

https://sdb.sonax.biz/cms-themes-sichblatt-data/pdf/sdb_Z61801134-PROFI_-_SONAX_PROFILINE_ACTIFOAM_ENERGY_%28GB%29EN.pdf


Referring back to the above SDS...
•What is the acid that concerns you?



Bob



So the first thing I noticed out the box is the big label on the front saying "DANGER CORROSIVE: CAUSES BURNS ECT ECT"

Also says on back to wear rubber gloves and vapor mask. Do not come in contact with skin ect ect. Kinda tough directions on a car wash shampoo. I have a hard time believing you can use this once a week without degrading a carnuba wax.

Not to mention I don't know to many people that wear a mask and rubber gloves to wash their car.






Thanks bob, My concern would be the 2-Butyl and anything else in there that might require a pair of rubber gloves and a vapor mask. Seems excessive for a weekly wash? I don't know to many car wash foams that can cause skin burns.

Is acid not the correct SDS term? Please feel free to enlighten me.

[Coatingsarecrack]

Thanks bob, My concern would be the 2-Butyl and anything else in there that might require a pair of rubber gloves and a vapor mask. Seems excessive for a weekly wash? I don't know to many car wash foams that can cause skin burns.

Is acid not the correct SDS term? Please feel free to enlighten me.

If it’s Ph neutral it can’t be acidic or alkaline


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SWETM]

The individual chemicals in the car soap can still be both acidic and alkaline based. It's usually mentioned as ph neutral balanced. And balanced is the key word here which is if they use something acidic chemical that's effective they can use another usually very strong and little amount of an alkaline chemical that's only purpose is to balance the solution to ph neutral. Have not looked closely to the chemicals in the Sonax Actifoam and how they have done. The natrium salts is what I think is the corrosive part in it. It's also what other chemicals and what you have on the vehical you are washing as in dirt. It can be haveing reaction on one kind of dirt that makes it more corrosive than for an example bare paint. Also if used on bare aluminum I don't think is so good in higher concentrations. The other chemicals seems to be alcohols or solvents.

I have gotten a prewash foam from them called Sonax Extreme Rich Foam Schampoo. That has about the same chemicals in them. It's less of them as in the natrium salt is up to 10% while the Actifoam has up to 20% which is the most amount of 1 chemical in both products. The recommended dilution in the foamcannon is 1:9 with the Rich Foam. And it got me a very good foam so I didn't use it with the highest chemical mix setting on the foamcannon which I usually does. With the recommended 1:30 you can get a good foam. But if you want to be on the safer side you can use it with just under 2oz to a whole foamcannon bottle of 1L/32oz. And start with the least chemical mix setting on the foamcannon and dial it up until you are satisfied with the foam. I don't like when it's getting to shaving cream thick foam and want something in the middle of the thickness. This way I usually gets the foam to stay on for a longer time and still runs down slowly enough. With to thick foam and it can be to heavy and runs off quicker as a to thin of a foam does. The Rich Foam was good but not impressed by it. If you just do a maintance wash and want to save the LSP as much as possible. I would not be doing a contact wash with something like these kind of foams. They are designed to be effective by only letting them dwell and PW clean rinsing it off. When you go in and aggitate these foams they gets very aggressive even in low dilutions. The Rich Foam Schampoo you can also use in a bucket wash if you want to. I have not done it yet and maybe never will. Though I did use a brush around emblems and the seals and feeled the lubrication on the windows with the nitrile gloves on. And it feeled like it had a good lubrication so if you doing more of a decon wash with re-applying the LSP. I could definitely use it in the bucket wash too. But for me it's mainly a prewash foam that was good and desolved much of the traffic film on a dirty car. The rest was an easy contact wash to get it real clean with Reset.

Hope it helped you a little to decide what to do. I would use it like a prewash foam and PW clean rinsing it off when it has dwelled enough. Then use a car soap of choice to do the contact wash with.

/ Tony

[fightnews]

The individual chemicals in the car soap can still be both acidic and alkaline based. It's usually mentioned as ph neutral balanced. And balanced is the key word here which is if they use something acidic chemical that's effective they can use another usually very strong and little amount of an alkaline chemical that's only purpose is to balance the solution to ph neutral. Have not looked closely to the chemicals in the Sonax Actifoam and how they have done. The natrium salts is what I think is the corrosive part in it. It's also what other chemicals and what you have on the vehical you are washing as in dirt. It can be haveing reaction on one kind of dirt that makes it more corrosive than for an example bare paint. Also if used on bare aluminum I don't think is so good in higher concentrations. The other chemicals seems to be alcohols or solvents.

I have gotten a prewash foam from them called Sonax Extreme Rich Foam Schampoo. That has about the same chemicals in them. It's less of them as in the natrium salt is up to 10% while the Actifoam has up to 20% which is the most amount of 1 chemical in both products. The recommended dilution in the foamcannon is 1:9 with the Rich Foam. And it got me a very good foam so I didn't use it with the highest chemical mix setting on the foamcannon which I usually does. With the recommended 1:30 you can get a good foam. But if you want to be on the safer side you can use it with just under 2oz to a whole foamcannon bottle of 1L/32oz. And start with the least chemical mix setting on the foamcannon and dial it up until you are satisfied with the foam. I don't like when it's getting to shaving cream thick foam and want something in the middle of the thickness. This way I usually gets the foam to stay on for a longer time and still runs down slowly enough. With to thick foam and it can be to heavy and runs off quicker as a to thin of a foam does. The Rich Foam was good but not impressed by it. If you just do a maintance wash and want to save the LSP as much as possible. I would not be doing a contact wash with something like these kind of foams. They are designed to be effective by only letting them dwell and PW clean rinsing it off. When you go in and aggitate these foams they gets very aggressive even in low dilutions. The Rich Foam Schampoo you can also use in a bucket wash if you want to. I have not done it yet and maybe never will. Though I did use a brush around emblems and the seals and feeled the lubrication on the windows with the nitrile gloves on. And it feeled like it had a good lubrication so if you doing more of a decon wash with re-applying the LSP. I could definitely use it in the bucket wash too. But for me it's mainly a prewash foam that was good and desolved much of the traffic film on a dirty car. The rest was an easy contact wash to get it real clean with Reset.

Hope it helped you a little to decide what to do. I would use it like a prewash foam and PW clean rinsing it off when it has dwelled enough. Then use a car soap of choice to do the contact wash with.

/ Tony

Thanks man you are always so helpful! I'm thinking about using it as a prep wash on a filthy car that needs to be completely decontaminated.

I was thinking a presoak with polish angel UltraRed then rinse.

Foam with this product and hand wash 1 panel at a time.

Iron remover then claymitt.

Then I'm probably going to do the polishing the next day with meguiars 1 step.

I'm more worried about my skin then the paint.

[FUNX650]

My concern would be the 2-Butyl and
anything else in there that might require
a pair of rubber gloves and a vapor mask.

Seems excessive for a weekly wash?
I don't know to many car wash foams
that can cause skin burns.

Is acid not the correct SDS term?
Please feel free to enlighten me.

Here is the PPE section of ActiFoam’s SDS:

Safety data sheet according to 1907/2006/EC,
Article 31; Printing date 17.09.2019 Version:
3.00 Revision: 10.07.2019

Trade name:
SONAX PROFILINE ACTIFOAM ENERGY

Personal protective equipment:

•General protective and hygienic measures:
-The usual precautionary measures are to be
adhered to when handling chemicals.
-Keep away from foodstuffs, beverages and feed.
-Wash hands before breaks and at the end of work.

Respiratory protection:
-Not required in normal cases
-Ensure good ventilation/exhaustion
at the workplace.

•Protection of hands:
-Protective gloves
-Material of gloves:
Nitrile rubber, NBR
-Recommended thickness of the material:
≥ 0.4 mm
-Penetration time of glove material Value
for the permeation: Level 6 (≥480min)

•Eye protection:
-Safety glasses


*******************************************

•Earlier you mentioned dilution is important:
-With that in mind: The Sonax ActiFoam product
is completely miscible in water.

•So, IMO, if you dilute ActiFoam to the
water/product ratio I suggested earlier;
then:
1.) “2-Butyl” isn’t an issue
2.) No vapor mask is necesssry
3.) As to: “The Wearing of Gloves”?
-It is always a recommended ritual when-
ever cleaning products are involved.

{Either get used to wearing them;
or: proceed at your own discretion.}


Hope this helps you in:
‘cutting this mountain,
down to a mole-hill’.


Bob

[fightnews]

I got some Mckee's 37 coating prep auto wash. I might just use it instead IDK? The truck is seriously dirty. It prob hasn't a real wash since the last time I did it well over a year ago.

It's a nice white (easy) Ford truck from 2016. The paint is nice but very dirty. We could easily play tic-tac-toe on any panel.

[fightnews]

3.) As to: “The Wearing of Gloves”?
-It is always a recommended ritual when-
ever cleaning products are involved.

{Either get used to wearing them;
or: proceed at your own discretion.}


Hope this helps you in:
‘cutting this mountain,
down to a mole-hill’.


Bob

Yes Bob thank you it does. I always wear my rubber gloves when working with hazardous chemicals. I go through cases of them and they are mounted on my wall for easy access when I'm detailing.

That doesn't usually include hand washing a car though. The 5 gallon buckets I have to dunk my whole arm in kinda defeat the purpose. I guess I could buy dish washing gloves but I feel like that is a bit excessive. Plus my arms don't fit well in them. They are always to small.

[FUNX650]

I got some Mckee's 37 coating prep auto
wash. I might just use it instead IDK?

OK. In that case:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/98F8225D-6A7D-47AE-AAA9-85A204FA9F0E.jpeg
~”Roseanne Roseannadanna”

[fightnews]

Respiratory protection:
-Not required in normal cases
-Ensure good ventilation/exhaustion
at the workplace.

Bob

You don't use a vapor mask when working with ethylene oxide?