Ceramic Coating water spots

[brunoranger]

Hey all, bit of a detailing newbie here. I was about ready to begin polishing/prepping my month old Tesla Model 3 and DIY ceramic coating before I read that water spotting on ceramic coating being an issue and the only way to remove it being polishing again. Is this truly an issue? I live in a townhouse where the sprinklers sometimes hit my car in the middle of the night and I am afraid of water spotting.

im thinking I may just try a sealant instead of something that isn’t so permanent. Thoughts?

[Mike Phillips]

Hey all, bit of a detailing newbie here. I was about ready to begin polishing/prepping my month old Tesla Model 3 and DIY ceramic coating before I read that water spotting on ceramic coating being an issue and the only way to remove it being polishing again. Is this truly an issue?

I live in a townhouse where the sprinklers sometimes hit my car in the middle of the night and I am afraid of water spotting.

im thinking I may just try a sealant instead of something that isn’t so permanent.

Thoughts?




Water spots can be an issue with any product, wax, sealant or coating.

When water spots do cause a problem, like a Type II Water Spot, (that's an etching crater in the paint), or even just imprint rings in the coating and the paint, then I always have to stop and think... and then ask myself...


What the heck is in the water that is so corrosive?


Out of the three options I would say a quality ceramic coating will be your best bet to protect against any type of water spotting issue. If after you apply the coating you do end up with water spots you can always re-polish the car or the affected panels and then moving forward switch to a different LSP.


If sprinkler water spots are always going to be a problem then consider keeping it simply. Get a great one-step cleaner/wax and detail your car with this and then "maintain" the paint with this.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon



:)

[brunoranger]

Water spots can be an issue with any product, wax, sealant or coating.

When water spots do cause a problem, like a Type II Water Spot, (that's an etching crater in the paint), or even just imprint rings in the coating and the paint, then I always have to stop and think... and then ask myself...


What the heck is in the water that is so corrosive?


Out of the three options I would say a quality ceramic coating will be your best bet to protect against any type of water spotting issue. If after you apply the coating you do end up with water spots you can always re-polish the car or the affected panels and then moving forward switch to a different LSP.


If sprinkler water spots are always going to be a problem then consider keeping it simply. Get a great one-step cleaner/wax and detail your car with this and then "maintain" the paint with this.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon



:)

Hey Mike

What product would you recommend for that? The sprinkler water spots. And what do you mean by detail and then maintain? Forgive me ignorance.

[brunoranger]

Hey Mike

What product would you recommend for that? The sprinkler water spots. And what do you mean by detail and then maintain? Forgive me ignorance.

Hey Mike

What product would you recommend for that? The sprinkler water spots. And what do you mean by detail and then maintain? Forgive me ignorance.

[Jon TDS]

Can't the sprinklers be aimed correctly so it hits the lawn and not the driveway? Other parking spots?



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[TTQ B4U]

Hey all, bit of a detailing newbie here. I was about ready to begin polishing/prepping my month old Tesla Model 3 and DIY ceramic coating before I read that water spotting on ceramic coating being an issue and the only way to remove it being polishing again. Is this truly an issue? I live in a townhouse where the sprinklers sometimes hit my car in the middle of the night and I am afraid of water spotting.
im thinking I may just try a sealant instead of something that isn’t so permanent. Thoughts?

There are two different types of potential water spots that can occur. Some lighter ones can be fairly easily removed with something like CarPro Spotless. If that's a huge issue, then you can move upto 3D Eraser Gel. The latter will impair a coating slightly thus I would re-top it after using it. If it's reached what I call Stage II, whereby the water has etched the hard minerals into the coating or clear, yes, something like a light polish would be needed.

That said, I've only had water spots on a coating happen to me once. IMO the newer coatings are much better at repelling them. However, I also am a strong believer in second-layer coatings like GYEON's Skin that comes with their Syncro Kit, or now, I really enjoy CarPro's Gliss v2. I used their original formulation and had zero issues with it but it just wasn't up to the standards of Hydrophobic I was looking for but that's been fixed with v2.

My recommendation is to go with a layer of Cquartz UK 3.0 then Gliss v2. You'll be quite pleased. I have several customers that I know very well who have UK & Gliss v1 on with vehicles that sit outside and have had no issues.

[Mike Phillips]

Hey Mike

What product would you recommend for that? The sprinkler water spots.



Kind of depends on what the water did to the coating or the paint. Some water spots, usually called Hard Water Spots, which are dissolved minerals in the water that after the water dries, leaves crusty looking particles on your car's paint, these can often be wiped-off or washed off. In really bad cases, chemically removed with products like Optimum MDR or Mineral Deposit Remover.

If the water was so corrosive that after washing or wiping the paint clean you can see an imprint ring or a crater etching - then you're going to have to use a polish and possibley a compound to abrade the surface and level it to make these rings or craters visually and physically disappear.


Imprint Rings is a term I coined for the industry. Here's my article on this topic.

Imprint Rings - A specific type of water spot on car paint by Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/101936-imprint-rings-specific-type-water-spot-car-paint-mike-phillips.html)

Here's a picture from the above article.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints02.jpg


If you click the link and read the article and look at the pictures you'll see I wiped the paint clean and the imprint rings REMAINED - this means the paint has been etched and will require some form of mechanical abrasion to fix.



These terms are kind of simple but I needed terms to describe the different types of water spots and because I'm a detailer that "writes" - I take the liberty to come up with my own terms for the car detailing industry and then use them. (anyone can do this, there's no law against writing)


3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/33499-3-types-water-spots-type-i-type-ii-type-iii.html)


Type I - Mineral Deposit or Hard Water Spot

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/2Type1WaterSpot2.jpg





Type II Water Spots
Type II Water Spots are actual etchings or craters in the paint because something corrosive in a water source has landed on the paint and was not removed before a portion of the paint was eaten or dissolved by the corrosive substance.

I took this photo myself when I helped Alex Fong from Corvette Forum remove a zillion Type II Water Spots out of the clear coat finish on his Corvette.

Photo Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/WaterEtcingSpotOriginalC1Raw.jpg

Here's a close-up of the same photo, if you look closely you can see the edges are angled downward as this is an actual etching "into" the clear paint.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/2WaterEtcingSpotOriginalC1RawCloseUpCropped.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/991/WaterSpotImprints03.jpg




Type III Water Spots - Chemically faded paint

Type III Water Spots are spots that look faded or dull and are found primarily found on single stage paints after a water source lands on and then pools on the paint and is usually left to dwell on the surface for some measure of time before it evaporates or is wiped-off the surface.

Modern clear coat paints tend to be harder and impermeable, that is non-porous, so liquids don't penetrated easily and thus stain spots tend to be topical, that is only affect the very upper surface and are easier and safer to remove with a compound or polish.

Older single stage paints tend to be soft and permeable, or porous, it's common for liquids to penetrate into the paint and stain the paint below the surface. Removing stains out of single stage paints can be risky because in order to remove the stains you have to abrade the paint and if the stains penetrated deep then you risk removing too much in an effort to try to remove them completely.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/TypeIIIWaterSpots.jpg



Not always fun explaining to people what the problems are....



Now as to what products?

If the crusty mineral deposits can be wiped or washed off than all you need is a car wash or quick detailer.

If the "spots" are actually NOT spots but some form of ETCHING in the paint, this means the etching is in the coating and through the coating and now in the paint - then you'll need a product that uses great abrasive technology and then you'll have to abrade or polish the paint.

Polishing abrades the surface and removes a little paint. The effect this has is to LEVEL the surface and thus make the spots or imprint rings visually disappear.

Next time the sprinklers go off you'll likely have the problem again.


This is where a discussion on WATER BEADING comes into play. 99.9% of the car enthusiast population LOVES to see water beading on their cars paint. It looks cool. :laughing:


Me? Been there done that. I'm a veteran of the NXT versus Zaino Wax Wars.

Water beading is bad for paint - it causes water spots and worse water spot etchings or imprint rings. This causes you to have to abrade the paint. Here's the problem - paint is THIN. At least factory paint is thin and that's what most of us have on our daily drivers.


Kind of a crazy world. I was at Meguiar's when the corporate decision was made to make everything BEAD WATER and the reason why was because the fact is you canot change perception. Perception is reality. Water beading is the perception of two things,


Protection

Longevity


But as you are experiencing, water beading doesn't mean protection if you are seeing water spots IN your car's paint. But... the unwashed masses are always correct. :laughing: So now days - look how much focus and importance is put on water beading.


It will never change either. Perception is reality.


What's the answer? See my answer to the other part of your question below.




:)

[Mike Phillips]

Hey Mike

And what do you mean by detail and then maintain? Forgive me ignorance.



Great question.

I believe you are referring to my first post in your thread where I wrote this,





If sprinkler water spots are always going to be a problem then consider keeping it simply.

Get a great one-step cleaner/wax and detail your car with this and then "maintain" the paint with this.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon





A quality cleaner/wax will,

Compound
Polish
Wax

In one step. Real simply and real fast. If you started with a one-step cleaner/wax or as some call it, an AIO or All-in-One, (same exact thing as a cleaner/wax just takes less time to type out), then when water spots appeared on your car's paint from a sprinkler you could quickly and easily hit the affected areas with the same cleaner/wax you initially used to detail the car. A quality cleaner/wax is never as aggressive as a compound and most cleaner/waxes fall into the medium cut to fine cut level of abrading polishes.

You cannot do the above with a coated car. With a coated car you must,


Wash and dry the car - clay if needed
Polish the paint to remove the defects. If a polish doesn't work then you must compound the paint to remove the defects and usually if you compound then you must follow with polishing.
Chemically strip the paint
Re-apply the ceramic coating.




That's 4-5 steps depending upon if you needed to clay or not.



With a one-step cleaner/wax you would,

Wash and dry the car - clay if needed
Use the one-step cleaner/wax


That's 2-3 steps depending upon if you needed to clay or not.



Here's what I wrote,




If sprinkler water spots are always going to be a problem then consider keeping it simply.

Get a great one-step cleaner/wax and detail your car with this and then maintain the paint with this.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon





It's faster to detail (machine buff), your car with a one-step cleaner/wax and then maintain your car with the one-step cleaner/wax if water spots are going to be a problem then it is to try to maintain a coating is water spots are going to be a problem.


Just pick a great one-step cleaner/wax and once in a while hit the areas hit by the sprinkler. Chance are good it will restore that just waxed look and it will be fast and easy. No chemical stripping and now tedious coating installation.



Make sense?



:)

[brunoranger]

Hey Mike, thanks for all the info! and everyone ele...much appreciated..

To answer the question, my water spots seems to be Type 2 or Type 3...what product as an all in one do you recommend for that?

I was thinking of doing a meguiar's ultimate paste wax soon for the entire car and using a quality spray wax on top to maintain like the Ice from Turtle)



:)

[Mike Phillips]

To answer the question, my water spots seems to be Type 2 or Type 3...what product as an all in one do you recommend for that?




You didn't mention if you have a polisher or not? I hate to assume but assuming you do have some brand of free spinning random orbital polisher - I would recommend getting a quart of BLACKFIRE One Step. At this time it only comes in quarts as it's targeted at Pro Detailers. Use this with a foam "polishing" pad, not foam cutting, not foam "finishing" but right in the middle, foam "polishing" pad.

Use it like a compound or polish - that is, work small sections at a time, about 16" by 16", (that's the size of the average microfiber towel. Then make 8 section passes. If you don't know what a section pass is, let me know I have an article on that, I coined the term for our industry.

You can apply to the entire car and then wipe off.

Your car will look great and chances are you will have removed the majority of all the water spots or imprint rings.

Moving forward, anytime you see defects that you want to remove just repeat to the area of defects. If you want the car to look amazing for Date Night then hit the upper half of the car, hood, trunk and tops of fenders. This is just a quickie. The product is so easy to use and doesn't micro-mar like some one-step AIOs.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon



:)

[brunoranger]

You didn't mention if you have a polisher or not? I hate to assume but assuming you do have some brand of free spinning random orbital polisher - I would recommend getting a quart of BLACKFIRE One Step. At this time it only comes in quarts as it's targeted at Pro Detailers. Use this with a foam "polishing" pad, not foam cutting, not foam "finishing" but right in the middle, foam "polishing" pad.

Use it like a compound or polish - that is, work small sections at a time, about 16" by 16", (that's the size of the average microfiber towel. Then make 8 section passes. If you don't know what a section pass is, let me know I have an article on that, I coined the term for our industry.

You can apply to the entire car and then wipe off.

Your car will look great and chances are you will have removed the majority of all the water spots or imprint rings.

Moving forward, anytime you see defects that you want to remove just repeat to the area of defects. If you want the car to look amazing for Date Night then hit the upper half of the car, hood, trunk and tops of fenders. This is just a quickie. The product is so easy to use and doesn't micro-mar like some one-step AIOs.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon



:)

Hey Mike....just ordered it. I do have a DA Torqx. I have a Buff and Shine Blue Foam Polishing Pad...just to confirm, do the whole car and then wipe off? Or wipe off each section afterward?

Thanks!

[fly07sti]

Hey Mike....just ordered it. I do have a DA Torqx. I have a Buff and Shine Blue Foam Polishing Pad...just to confirm, do the whole car and then wipe off? Or wipe off each section afterward?

Thanks!

Not to rain on your parade, it’s going to takes more than one pad. Hopefully you have more. If you’re using an AIO in doors I’d suggest doing the entire vehicle (after your test spot to see how many passes gives you your desired results). If you’re going to be outdoors, I’d suggest wiping off as you go.

[Coatingsarecrack]

Not to rain on your parade,


Lol... water spots..... rain on your parade.... I’m picking up what your puttin down.

[emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787]

Also he’s right. Definetly need more than one pad to do right.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brunoranger]

You didn't mention if you have a polisher or not? I hate to assume but assuming you do have some brand of free spinning random orbital polisher - I would recommend getting a quart of BLACKFIRE One Step. At this time it only comes in quarts as it's targeted at Pro Detailers. Use this with a foam "polishing" pad, not foam cutting, not foam "finishing" but right in the middle, foam "polishing" pad.

Use it like a compound or polish - that is, work small sections at a time, about 16" by 16", (that's the size of the average microfiber towel. Then make 8 section passes. If you don't know what a section pass is, let me know I have an article on that, I coined the term for our industry.

You can apply to the entire car and then wipe off.

Your car will look great and chances are you will have removed the majority of all the water spots or imprint rings.

Moving forward, anytime you see defects that you want to remove just repeat to the area of defects. If you want the car to look amazing for Date Night then hit the upper half of the car, hood, trunk and tops of fenders. This is just a quickie. The product is so easy to use and doesn't micro-mar like some one-step AIOs.


KISS - Keep it Simple Simon



:)

hey mike a couple more questions....

when you say 8 section passes do you mean even in direct sunlight or in the shade? How many if I am in the sunlight to avoid dry buffing?

also, what should my hand speed be with this product? Should I move it faster than normal or the 1 inch per second method?

[mpulsiv]

Water beading is bad for paint - it causes water spots and worse water spot etchings or imprint rings. This causes you to have to abrade the paint.



I'm speechless now :confused: Doesn't traditional wax exhibit poor water beading property compared to sealants, ceramic coating and SiO2 washes? However, Wolfgang says otherwise.
Pardon my ignorance but is there a solution to the problem for wet climates and hard water to keep the factory paint in mint condition?


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VB5J9zJ/0/f3d0db40/XL/i-VB5J9zJ-XL.jpg