Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

[ifadey]

Before you read my question I want to make sure you understand my interpretation of slickness. Some people take this word as smooth to touch surface like you feel after claying. But in this discussion I relate it to super slippery surface like you get from Menzerna/Jescar Powerlock, CarPro Gliss, Fusso Coat, etc.

I have seen extremely hydrophobic paint protection products like Sonax PNS which have crazy beading properties but they don't have slippery feel at all. I have always wondered how such product compare with super slick product like Powerlock (don't have crazy beading properties like PNS).

Which type of product will have better self cleaning ability? Do slick products have better self cleaning ability?

[acuRAS82]

I’ve learned to separate these 3 categories as 3 different, unique attributes. My brain used to tell me that slick, hydrophobic and self-cleaning must be directly related (it would make logical sense, right?).

But as you mention, it doesn’t work like that with some really key examples:

PNS: very hydrophobic, good self cleaning, not slick
Generic coatings: Very hydrophobic, great self cleaning, not too slick
Quality sealants: Good/fair hydrophobic, not great self-cleaning, extremely slick

[ifadey]

So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.

[acuRAS82]

So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.

That’s correct. The more the water falls off the car rather than settle on the paint, the more it is taking dirt off the car with it.

I think back in the day before coatings, with sealants in particular, slickness usually went along with the hydrophobic and self-cleaning properties. Since the boom in coatings though, slickness doesn’t seem to fit in directly with the other two attributes.

[Desertnate]

So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.

That has been my experience. Collinite 845 is very slick after application, but you get really fat water beads with it which tend to stay on the paint as does pollen and dust regardless of the how much rain it might experience.

The three coatings I've tried were the opposite. None were quite as slick, but the water beads are really tight and almost seem to simply perch rather than sit on the surface. When hit with a hard rain I've seen a dusty/pollen covered car come out almost completely clean.

[DetailZeus]

If we're getting technical I remember reading that self-cleaning is actually hydrophilic, meaning the water sticks, lays flat, and wets the surface. A hydrophobic (beading) surface is "hard to dirty".

Although in detailing land we've always had our own names for most things. Kinda makes sense though if you think about it; coatings stay cleaner longer but when they finally do get a film it can sometimes be difficult to get off.

[Desertnate]

Although in detailing land we've always had our own names for most things. Kinda makes sense though if you think about it; coatings stay cleaner longer but when they finally do get a film it can sometimes be difficult to get off.

Very true. That is exactly what many, myself included, experience over the winter. The salt and heavy road grime builds up and sits for long periods of time. When the opportunity presents to give a good wash, it appears the coating has, "failed". In reality it just has a really heavy, stubborn layer of grime which takes a little patience to remove. For me, it usually takes 2~4 good hand washes before things return to normal.

[FUNX650]

In (my) layman terms:
Hydrophobic = water beads
having a contact angle of >90°

Slickness = surface smoothness

************************************

•Hydrophobic vs. Slickness:
-The leaf of the Lotus plant is a prime
example of a (super)hydrophobic surface
that is “self-cleaning”.
-But lo and behold: its surface is not smooth,
or slick—rather, it’s rough.

(Seems to be counterintuitive.) : scratchhead:

*************************************

Note:
Due to their having water beads with contact
angles <90°...surfaces that are hydrophilic can
also be “self-cleaning”. Go figure!


•And don’t forget the roles that the sliding
angle, and the adhesion/pull-off force—among
other factors—of water beads/droplets play in
the overall effectuation of “self-cleaning”.



Bob

[TNMIKE46]

So here's another question from a newbie that I think is kinda related to this thread.

Is it better for rinse water or rain water to bead up or sheet off. Coated my daughters black 2019 Mustang with Cquartz UK 3.0 (one application).

Wash the car with Reset shampoo. For the most part the water on the horizontal surfaces beads with I'd say medium beading.

[ifadey]

Is it better for rinse water or rain water to bead up or sheet off.


It's always best if rinse water sheets which you can control regardless protection have beading or sheeting properties. This will remove most of the water from surface and make drying easier.

Slow rain will create beads no matter if the surface have beading or sheeting style protection or no protection at all. You can't control that.

[SWETM]

The sliding angle is the most important value on how the water droplets run off on the different LSP. A high contact angle don't necessary means a low sliding angle. So it's also different from how the angles is on a certain car modell in how effective the water beading rolls. And think this is also how fast and how uniform the sheeting of water is depending on the sliding angle too. The lower sliding angle you get the easier water runs off.

[Belo]

i'm a powerlock guy and have tried some AIOs which honestly I think may actually have better self-cleaning properties. But I just can't accept that they're not as smooth to the touch or bead as well. I would inherently judge them after I finished the job and almost chalked them up to being inferior. It's such a dumb thing for my brain to fuss over as not many people you meet ask if they can touch your car, in fact etiquette is to not touch someones car haha. And beading is just this thing we've fallen in love with, when sheeting can actually be better for your car.

I will say though that powerlock has always given me a much nicer, deeper and glossier finish which is why I am so loyal to the stuff.

[CleanIT]

It's been 2 weeks since I last washed my truck. It only has Megs HCD as a stand alone. After two weeks with several rain storms and high heat, the truck looks fantastic. Not only does HCD produce extremely tight beading, the water sheets off the hood at very low speed after rain. So if I were to guess, the Megs HCD (Bead Booster) produces beads with good sliding and contact angles. HCD has outperformed Gyeon Wet Coat for me.

[Coatingsarecrack]

It's been 2 weeks since I last washed my truck. It only has Megs HCD as a stand alone. After two weeks with several rain storms and high heat, the truck looks fantastic. Not only does HCD produce extremely tight beading, the water sheets off the hood at very low speed after rain. So if I were to guess, the Megs HCD (Bead Booster) produces beads with good sliding and contact angles. HCD has outperformed Gyeon Wet Coat for me.

Yeah not many spray and rinse fans here on AG. Most have relegated that to wheels. If you like beading do yourself a favor and give CanCoat a try and maintain with the m799. You’ll be blown away.

Or if into waxing give Gyeon Wax a try. Some amazing beading.


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[PaulMys]

Yeah not many spray and rinse fans here on AG. Most have relegated that to wheels. If you like beading do yourself a favor and give CanCoat a try and maintain with the m799. You’ll be blown away.

Or if into waxing give Gyeon Wax a try. Some amazing beading.


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Coatings suck. :poke::laughing::laughing::laughing::cheers: