Silicon Products + Bodywork/Paint Work issues

[bryanviper]

Hello All,

I have a friend that I polished and Ceramic Coated their car Summer 2018. Unfortunately last week they brought it in to a bodyshop I know the owner of to fix a minor hit on their rear bumper. The owner of the body shop who I know took it in did the body work and painted it. He said he had little pin hole bubbles in the paint which looked to be caused by a Silicon product and asked me if I knew what was used on the car.

Cquartz UK 3.0 was the coating,
But the owner of the car uses, CaPro Reload, Geyon WetCoat, Geyon Bathe+

Those products have silicon in them which has struck to the paint/body work and was causing him issues. He sanded everything down again, used properly degreasers and other chemicals that any bodyshop would use to remove the silicon and painted it and yet it did it again. I believe he tried a 3rd time with no success. In the end he bought a new OEM bumper at his cost painted that and got the work finished.

My question is, has anybody else seen these sort of issues? It seems like this is becoming a bigger issue as time goes on due to people wanting to protect their Ceramic Coating. He even contacted glasurit which is the paint he uses and they said they are starting to see more and more of these types of issues and are looking into to see what they can do. Its gotten me worried where I would not want to give him a headache in the future where I will likely stop using these topper type products on my car and just leave the ceramic coating alone unless I can find products that dont have silicone in them.

Thanks

[acuRAS82]

Sub’d

[SWETM]

Maybe he would benefit to polishing with a mf pad or wool pad. To get into the little valleys in the paint that not the sanding discs reach. Or maybe a foamed sanding disc of some sort would also work. Before prep with sanding and paint.

Think that the silicone oils is comeing back more and more as one part of the LSP QD spray waxes AIO and such in the chemicals mix up. Just when the rubber seals and interior protection products got the volatile silicone out of them. It's other places the silcone gets from and if on the paint it's not even needed to be volatile silicone. Strange it's not marked as not fresh paint friendly.

[bryanviper]

Its possible the sanding just embedded the silicon deeper into it and contaminated his equipment.

he was having the same issue with another car and called Adams as that owner used their detailing products. Right away the person on the phone said, no no no our products are full of silicone and are not bodyshop safe.

he also spoke to Chemical Guys as there is a location not to far from his shop and they said all their products are silicon free apparently, not sure if thats true or not.


Maybe he would benefit to polishing with a mf pad or wool pad. To get into the little valleys in the paint that not the sanding discs reach. Or maybe a foamed sanding disc of some sort would also work. Before prep with sanding and paint.

Think that the silicone oils is comeing back more and more as one part of the LSP QD spray waxes AIO and such in the chemicals mix up. Just when the rubber seals and interior protection products got the volatile silicone out of them. It's other places the silcone gets from and if on the paint it's not even needed to be volatile silicone. Strange it's not marked as not fresh paint friendly.

[Strong66]

Silicone will definitely create fish eyes in paint, but normally it will all be sealed in after the first clearcoat job has dried.

I have had fish eyes come back coat after coat of clear, but that ended up being a bad pallet of clear that the paint manufacturer

eventually replaced and paid for labor to repair the all of the effected vehicles and parts.

[bryanviper]

yes he mentioned that also that usually he can put it under another layer of clear coat however it did not work this time.



Silicone will definitely create fish eyes in paint, but normally it will all be sealed in after the first clearcoat job has dried.

I have had fish eyes come back coat after coat of clear, but that ended up being a bad pallet of clear that the paint manufacturer

eventually replaced and paid for labor to repair the all of the effected vehicles and parts.

[Rrthomas78]

A number of things can cause fisheyes from finger prints to chemical reaction...I would trust the painter in this situation I'm sure he's been around

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

[bryanviper]

I do trust him, hes been around for a long time and is very honest. Was more curious if others have seen this before or maybe they have some options for none silicon products to help protect ceramic coatings?

Thanks


A number of things can cause fisheyes from finger prints to chemical reaction...I would trust the painter in this situation I'm sure he's been around

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

[acuRAS82]

Dumb question: do ceramic coatings include silicone? Is there a reason the toppers are a concern to the new paintwork vs the coating itself?

[bryanviper]

I asked him about that since Ceramic Coatings have silicon in them and he said he has never had an issue with Ceramic Coatings on cars likely because its cured where the other spray on stuff does not cure and sticks very well


Dumb question: do ceramic coatings include silicone? Is there a reason the toppers are a concern to the new paintwork vs the coating itself?

[Mgavin1985]

I read an article some time ago when I was searching for prep products to remove silicone and wax. The article was about silicone and how big of a PIA it was. The author was employed with a Lens company working with glass that made lens for telescopes it stated that once silicone was on the glass they had to polish it off. It was only an article about glass not paint.

[ejaf]

Dumb question: do ceramic coatings include silicone? Is there a reason the toppers are a concern to the new paintwork vs the coating itself?

Not a dumb question at all...I was about to ask the same thing. Turns out that my daughter's car got hit in the right rear door by some person coming out of a parking spot. All metal work, three panels need to be blended, and the car is coated with Mckee's 37 v2.

So thanks...and Brian, thanks for your reply.

Eric

[bryanviper]

Interesting, I would also think that polishing May remove silicone, It does with Ceramic Coating & thats supposed to bond pretty well. Interesting, I may mention it to the bodyshop.


I read an article some time ago when I was searching for prep products to remove silicone and wax. The article was about silicone and how big of a PIA it was. The author was employed with a Lens company working with glass that made lens for telescopes it stated that once silicone was on the glass they had to polish it off. It was only an article about glass not paint.

[The Guz]

Does it look like this?

I have these due to a bad prep on the rear quarter panel under the clear.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/d334f2d0e523dbcaacde9cd96639b349.jpg

[SWETM]

Does it look like this?

I have these due to a bad prep on the rear quarter panel under the clear.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/d334f2d0e523dbcaacde9cd96639b349.jpg

Do you know if the panel was filled up? I don't know the English word for but maybe putty or automotive filler. It's a 2 part with a hardener in it. That pitting you have got looks like they didn't blend the harderner enough or used to much or to little of it. Useally when this is sanded down you clean it off with a sticky towel is the best I can describe it as. Then you put on a sprayable filling and primer and finish sanding it before you begin with the base coat layer or if you need a special primer of some kind. Or if you don't use the sprayable filling and primer you need to be use a filling that is a little thinner. To avoid those pitting and it's important to always clean as good as possible between the filling and painting. They are tricky to spot as they gets visible mostly when the paint is cureing or cured. No other way than sanding it down and filling it again and repaint.

It was a long time since I was in the painting and mostly preping for paint. So memory of this is bad lol. But I think that they some kind of of primer that you could trap the volatile silicone that may have been left when cleaning it off. So you would not be getting the bubbles comeing when you paint and the fisheyes. I painted one of my car at a bodyshop where friends worked. And it was an old Volvo Amazon 121gl. When the painter was done on the exterior he wanted to be nice and blend in the door jambs too. And when he opened the door there came out this volatile silicone that maked fisheyes all around the door and around 2 feet out from the door jamb. So he was needed to sanding it down again and re-doing it. And not opened the door again LOL.

Remember that there are different kind of silicone. Non volatile silicone and those that are volatile silicone. Hope it's the right word for it the volatile part. It's when the silicone is spread out in the air very easy. Those volatile silicone was popular way back and used to revive and condition rubber and vinyl products. And the worst where the sticks you treated the door rubber seals with to not freeze during winter times. Then some interior protection used it also. Now days the silicone is not volatile. But still incompatible when you paint on it and in some cases polishing fresh paint and in rare cases fresh paint protection application.

Also keep silicone and silicon apart as the silicone is not so good when painting. While silicon aka silica don't interfear with the paint so much. Silicon is what is used in most ceramic coatings and silicone is used in sealant and ceramic toppers but not all of them but it worth looking it if you are going to be painting the car in the future. Then to get it even more complicated. Some siloxane and such chemicals can transform to silicone on the paint when you apply it and it cures. Then it's so many strings of these that it's impossible to have track on which doing which with each other when mixed.

This is just a base of all this. I don't know much more and the thing I do know is if you plan on repaint. Stay with products that are fresh paint safe and is silicone free. It's a big hazzle to work with silicone for painters in bodyshops. 3D and Meguiars has products that is bodyshop safe and more has it. Bodyshop safe was a word I was looking for LOL. The translation gets hard when you are going into specific terms of different industies LOL