Salty roads leading to rust specks on freshly ceramic coated car... Normal?

[nvestr]

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum - I am located in Atlantic Canada. Been lurking forever but never joined until now.

I did my first DIY ceramic coating with GTechniq CSL and am curious if this is normal:

I did my wife's XC90 (which was 3 days old at the time) in late December and have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed. I was under the impression that it would seal the paint and not allow much to stick to the cured surface. Our XC90 is pearl white and only a week after application, there are small orange spots (iron spots that have rusted) due to our salty roads. I was really hoping that those iron spots would not cling to the paint. The downside of white cars in Canadian winters is the accumulation of those orange specks. It does not seem to have helped at all so far this winter.

When I did my XC90, I had a bit of coating leftover and did the driver's door of my Mercedes-AMG C43 as a sort of test. Visually, when I compare the coated door and the uncoated fender and rear door, winter dirt (salt spray, slush and dirt) sticks just as much on the coated door as on the uncoated. When it comes to rinsing, the winter dirt (caked for 2-3 weeks, not fresh) does not hose off any easier on coated vs uncoated. I was hoping that dirt and salt would rinse off much easier and require less effort to remove from car but I'm not seeing it. A bit disappointing actually.

Now I will need to clay bar both cars to remove the orange specks just like I always have on uncoated cars.

For what it's worth, I went all out with the prep, just as directed. Full wash, full decontamination with Iron-X followed by full clay bar everywhere. Followed by 1-step polish with Meguiars M205. Followed by IPA panel wipes all over the car to remove any leftover polishing oils or residues. Coated the car exactly as directed, left in heated garage for 24+ hours.

The only real sign that the vehicle is coated is the water repellancy is quite good - water just beads and sheets off but I was hoping for better dirt repellance. From a keeping the car clean perspective, I see little to no improvement.

Did I do something wrong or this is just how it works and my expectations were too high? Everybody says that coated cars are so easy to keep clean and require less elbow grease when cleaning. I can say that the dirt does wash off nicely with a MF mitt but those specks that stay behind after the mitt are really killing my vibe. Any ideas?

Should I have coated with EXO? Should I have used a different coating? Or did I screw up somehow...

[Mike Phillips]

First...


Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:



Second - I can feel your frustration in your post. I think I would feel the same way. I have used a lot of different coatings in my life, my first write-up on installing a coating dates back to 2011 - that's 8 years ago as I type today in 2019.

The thing about all the cars I coat is I usually don't see them again or very often. Thus I don't see the results over time and of course I don't see the day-to-day results from maintaining these other cars.


Now for my own cars, I tend to use a one-step cleaner/wax on my rides. For the wife's last car, a Mercedes-Bens SL 500, and before it a SLK 350, both had the Ceramiclear paint systems from Mercedes-Benz, (awesome paint in my opinion), and for SL 500 I installed the Pinnacle Black Label Surface Coating. Because I did wash and maintain this car for about 3 years, (we recently sold it), I can say with this coating it stayed cleaner longer and it washed and dried incredibly fast. And it always looked amazing.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=106918




So I'm not sure what to say about the GTechniq coating. I will say that GTechniq makes top quality products. I use their C5 Wheel Armor and it is bullet-proof. Rob Earl, their head chemist is the real deal.

Also - road salt usually isn't salt it's Magnesium Chloride or some variation of this substance. I know if you or I started a business spreading Magnesium Chloride over the roads and it damaged cars we would be sued. When the government does it for our safety, they get a pass.

I always figured that if I lived in an area where this was a regularly occurring problem, for example, happens every year during the winter season, then I would buy a dependable beater car, truck or SUV just for this type of punishment.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Also - I looked up what we put on the SLK and it was back in 2013 BEFORE the Pinnacle Black Label line was formally introduced. It was the Pinnacle Black Label Surface Coating.

Time stamp for first post of the thread = 10-24-2013, 06:41 AM


2006 Mercedes-Benz SLK 350 Show Car Makeover Pictures (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/72151-2006-mercedes-benz-slk-350-show-car-makeover-pictures.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2111/2006_SLK_350_085.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2111/2006_SLK_350_086.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2111/2006_SLK_350_089.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2111/2006_SLK_350_090.jpg

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2111/2006_SLK_350_095.jpg




I think the PBL Surface Coating is the sleeper in the paint coating world. It's incredibly easy to use and leaves the paint looking glassy and also slippery.


My go-to coating at this time. I wish it were cheaper but's about $130.00 a bottle.


Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Surface Coating (https://www.autogeek.net/diamond-surface-coating.html)



:)

[Mike Phillips]

You might try contacting a Rep from GTechniq. Send them the link to this thread so they can read your first post and see if they have any input or suggestions.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

More....


Here's a full write-up I did for Gtechniq CSL about one year ago. Again - I have not seen this Jeep since then as freebie detail projects like this just go down the road.


2017 Jeep Wrangler MONSTER JEEP Mike Phillips Autogeek (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-from-special-projects/117476-pictures-gtechniq-crystal-serum-monster-jeep.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3606/Gtechniq_Serum_009.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3606/Gtechniq_Serum_002.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3606/Gtechniq_Serum_003.JPG


:)

[rmagnus]

nvestr, Mike provided you a wealth of information. I’ll give you my expierence and hope it doesn’t contradict the Master. I had a Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer edition about 2005ish give or take a couple years. It was white base coat clear coat. After about a year I noticed the same thing you did, little rust spots all over the paint. Took it to th dealership As it was under warranty. Well so much for warranties. Here’s what I learned.

The rust flecks were from rail road dust, break pad dust, atmosphere and just about every other contaminant available to a daily driver. Here’s what I did. I gave the SUV a full decontamination, pressure wash, clay treatment, compound, polish and wax. Never had an issue with rust spots of any kind after that.

My vehicles get washed weekly then topped with a spray way as a refresher. I plan to ceramic coat all three with McKees as soon as he rain stops in SoCal. I’m not really sold on this ceramic coating stuff but it’s the current rage so I thought I’d try it on my own vehicles first before anyoneelses. I have a hard time believing a coating can last anywhere near two years.

I think you are going to have to clay and do an iron decontamination followed by a polish and wax or re-coat.

[Setec Astronomy]

OP--it sounds like you think the rusty spots have been thrown onto the car after you coated it and you are disappointed that the coating allowed them to "stick". I would suggest, as I think rmagnus did, that perhaps this was existing ferrous contamination that was not completely removed during your prep prior to coating, which has now bloomed with rust due to the exposure to road salt.

I would try Iron-X on a test spot (I don't think the Iron-X will degrade your coating...but I'm not sure), and see if the rust spots reappear on that section after the next storm.

[Mgavin1985]

My biggest draw to a coating is easy cleaning. On CSL specifically I noticed it was a sheeting coat not a beading. CSL was tough and prevent wash marks n my experience. Bonded contamination such as Tar and iron where easier to clean because I was able to really scrub on them with confidence I noticed it held up better than just clear. Don’t be afraid to hit it with mild acid like megs wheel brighter or opti mineral remover after winter. for me coatings stand up to a diluted mix of acid better than a alkaline film remover and are also cleaned better and release bonds material. I think CSL will clean up well for u another great product to clean coatings is a citrus d-limonene based chemical . In my experience these two cleaned much better than color changing iron remover and alkaline traffic film removers. Most Coating are nano particles of ceramic material suspended in a resin that’s why they are semi permanent because the resin degrades and wears and releases the particles until your sacrificial barrier is eroded away. I have read a lot on alkaline’s effecting this resin.

[The Guz]

Give it a decon wash with an iron remover during your next wash. CSL will survive it.

[nvestr]

Thank you for all the replies - much appreciated.

From my understanding, it appears that the consensus is that these would be leftover contaminants "beneath" the coating and not something sticking on top? I can certainly try Iron-X. Perhaps I will play it safe and only do a single panel and see if the contaminants come right back and to see how the performance of the coating is affected in terms of hydrophobicity (if that's a word).

Thanks again

[Setec Astronomy]

From my understanding, it appears that the consensus is that these would be leftover contaminants "beneath" the coating and not something sticking on top?

You have to remember that the coating is in reality very thin, and that a bonded iron contaminant might not be "under" the coating, but sticking up through the coating. It's also possible that even if the contaminant was "coated" that may be imperfect and the chlorides may penetrate the coating and react with the iron.

Anyway, it's easy to check, as you suggested try a small spot or single panel, treat it with the Iron-X and see if it bleeds, you may want to repeat a couple of times or with a long dwell (don't let it dry), and see if that area remains free of spots over the next few salt exposures.

[nvestr]

This is what the vehicle looked like after a full wash. This is 5 weeks post coating. Again, the car had an application of Iron-X and was fully clayed before applying the coating.
65844 EDIT: I guess the forum resizes the photos so hard to see the spots...

I did 2 applications of Iron-X on this door afterwards. The second application hardly had any purple. Now to see in a week or two if gets nasty again.
65843


There was also a significant amount of black specks (assume road tar) on the finish (did not react or get removed by Iron-X). Had a hard time getting it off the coating with Poorboy's Bug Squash... Is it normal for that stuff to stick that much on a coated surface?

I have a new vehicle ordered that will arrive in May and I plan on coating it as well, but not sure I want to use CSL again based on this experience...

[SWETM]

Some iron particals clinging really hard sometimes. The thing with the iron remover is they only desolves the oxidized iron and leaves the rest of the iron partical behind. But since you desolve that it's useally only needs to be rinsed off. As the iron partical gets smaller without the oxidized parts. Sometimes if the particals is new the jagged edges of the iron partical has not been able to oxidized enough to be desolved. The easiest way is to after the first application of ironx you do test spots where you saw the most bleeding effect. And if it's bleed again at the same rate as the first application you can do a second full application of ironx. To be certain that it's gets rinsed off or it's gets picked up by the clay.

The environment I live in Sweden we get a lot of tar and rubber spots even on coatings. And the tar is very sticky too. Sometimes it's enough to get them when you do your wash. But I don't like getting this gunk in the wash mitts. So almost every wash after the prewash foam and PW clean rinsing it off. I use a tar remover on the lower side panels and the back of the car to desolve it and rinse it off with the PW. Then I move on to the 2bm wash and take the little dirt that is left off. Even on very salt crusted dirty cars the rinse bucket after a wash is almost clean. It's the little of road film that gets washed away when bucket washing.

Some LSP release contaminants better than others. But it's also different kind of dirt and contaminants they release easier. So some LSP can release tar easier and other resist or release water spots easier. And that is very depending on the environment you live in what kind of contaminants you gets. So not easy to say which one works better than the other than by personal experience with it.

Do you use any topper on the CSL? The C2v3 is a little knowned for not being effective as self cleaning ability. And EXO v4 excells the behavior from the CSL very good. So CSL/ EXO combo is a great choice to use. CSL is also in the middle of the self cleaning ability so there is some that is better in that case.

[nvestr]

Some iron particals clinging really hard sometimes. The thing with the iron remover is they only desolves the oxidized iron and leaves the rest of the iron partical behind. But since you desolve that it's useally only needs to be rinsed off. As the iron partical gets smaller without the oxidized parts. Sometimes if the particals is new the jagged edges of the iron partical has not been able to oxidized enough to be desolved. The easiest way is to after the first application of ironx you do test spots where you saw the most bleeding effect. And if it's bleed again at the same rate as the first application you can do a second full application of ironx. To be certain that it's gets rinsed off or it's gets picked up by the clay.

The environment I live in Sweden we get a lot of tar and rubber spots even on coatings. And the tar is very sticky too. Sometimes it's enough to get them when you do your wash. But I don't like getting this gunk in the wash mitts. So almost every wash after the prewash foam and PW clean rinsing it off. I use a tar remover on the lower side panels and the back of the car to desolve it and rinse it off with the PW. Then I move on to the 2bm wash and take the little dirt that is left off. Even on very salt crusted dirty cars the rinse bucket after a wash is almost clean. It's the little of road film that gets washed away when bucket washing.

Some LSP release contaminants better than others. But it's also different kind of dirt and contaminants they release easier. So some LSP can release tar easier and other resist or release water spots easier. And that is very depending on the environment you live in what kind of contaminants you gets. So not easy to say which one works better than the other than by personal experience with it.

Do you use any topper on the CSL? The C2v3 is a little knowned for not being effective as self cleaning ability. And EXO v4 excells the behavior from the CSL very good. So CSL/ EXO combo is a great choice to use. CSL is also in the middle of the self cleaning ability so there is some that is better in that case.

Thanks - nothing on top of CSL. I had read conflicting info on EXO over CSL not being much better (i.e. not being worth extra labor and cost) so I opted to try CSL only. I will look at doing the CSL/EXO combo for my next vehicle but still want to wait and see if those orange specks are eliminated or not...

[nvestr]

Hi all, following up on this post. I made a video showing the water beading/sheeting performance of the coating after 2 months.

From what I've seen in other videos, the hydrophobic properties of CSL alone should be better than what I'm experiencing. Where did I go wrong?

YouTube (https://youtu.be/e8TnGcKAhe8)

Would appreciate any feedback or thoughts...