pad selection for forced DA regarding product absorbtion and forced rotation

[tattooman]

I saw that the LC Hybrid Force pads were designed to handle the power of the Flex forced DA machine. The LC Hydro-Tech pads are designed specifically to absorb (waste) less product. I've been using HexLogic pads on my Flex 4301 forced DA machine, but I notice that those pads absorb a LOT of product, as a result I think I may be using excessive product that's not ending up on the paint itself.

1) Will the LC Hybrid Force pads absorb LESS product than my HexLogic pads ?

2) If the LC Hydro-Tech pads absorb less product than my HexLogic pads, as LC advertises, what will I be giving up in terms of performance by using these pads instead of the Hybrid Force pads that were designed for forced DA machines specifically ?

I want to try something different now that I have experience with HexLogic, I just don't want to try different brands/products randomly without research.

Any and all advice much appreaciated.

[spazzz]

I can't help you since I haven't used the Hex or Hydro-tech pads. I bought the Flex and jumped into the 5 inch LC Hybrids with the LC backing plate.

When they came out with the Force pads I bought those.
It never entered my mind to not get them after reading all the good reviews.

Did you read Autogeeks description of the pads on the stores force page?
Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish 5 Inch Foam Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/5-inch-hybrid-pads.html)

Pretty much the way it is compared to the original Hybrid pads. I would think about the same for the others but that is just speculation.

[Dr Oldz]

1) Yes due to the design of the foam cells it will absorb less.

2) HT pads will absorb less than the Hex pads. The downfall with HT pads is durability won’t be as good on a forced rotation and they tend to run a bit warmer due to their closed cell design.


Hybrid force pads are really great pads and make the 3401 bring out its maximum potential

My suggestion to you is that you shouldn’t be using any pad long enough where it starts getting overly moist with buffing liquid. You should be changing you pads often. I use an average of 10 pads a vehicle give or take.

[Mike Phillips]

Closed cell foam has less tensile strength than open cell pads. This means instead of stretching they will simply tear, thus they won't last as long.

Also - while the "idea" of closed cell foam paints a picture in your mind's eye that the foam won't soak up product as much as a open cell foam, practical experience shows they still saturate with product so any benefit is short lived unless you change pads often, as in one pad per panel for compounding and polishing.


I'm not a fan of pad design and most pros I know think like me. Flat pads eliminate the risk of any particulate becoming lodged in the "design". For example, a few years ago Meguiar's introduced their Solo 1 foam pads with a diamond cut in the face of the pad. I was sitting in a meeting at Meguiar's when the pads were being developed. I asked, "What is the benefit to the diamond cut in the face of the pad?" the answer was it was a change up from the normal flat pad design Meguiar's introduced in 1965. In other words, no benefit. Where are the pads now? (they've been discontinued and now Meguiar's only offers FLAT foam pads).

So use the hexlogic if you like them but they are harder to clean with a brush, take longer to clean with a brush and because there are now "places" for an foreign debris, contaminants, even product to build up "into" they increase the risk for a problem i.e. a scratch being instilled into the paint during the buffing process.

I always post,

KISS - Keep it Simple Simon

Flat is your friend.


Also - be careful which Detailing Gurus or experts you follow.


:)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Hexlogic pads tend to leave more micromarring.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

[Dr Oldz]

Hexlogic pads tend to leave more micromarring.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

I agree. So do the CCS pads.

I also agree with Mike above. Flat pads without designs or gimmicks carved in them are the way to go. I found this out the hard way thru experience.

[SWETM]

I agree. So do the CCS pads.

I also agree with Mike above. Flat pads without designs or gimmicks carved in them are the way to go. I found this out the hard way thru experience.

How is it with those that has a ventilation hole in the middle of the pad?

[Dr Oldz]

How is it with those that has a ventilation hole in the middle of the pad?

That hole is fine with me. No difference In performance. Supposed to make some machines run the pads cooler. I have never tested that aspect. The holes are nice for rotary polishing so you can use a centering post.

[dlc95]

1. From what I understand, the Hybrid pads feature a "partially" closed cell design. Similar to the white Hex Logic, but in varying aggressions.

The grey might be the only exception though. It's a very stiff, hard pad with an open cell foam. I'll have to double check on that.

2. In my experience the trade off between the closed cell Hydrotech, and any open or partially open cell pad is extra cut from the foam. The closed cell pads rely mostly on the abrasives in the polish to do more work, where an open cell tends to "scrub" at the paint more, thus theoretically increasing the effectiveness of the abrasive.

I love the way closed cell pads finish, but I haven't get them to cut as hard as the open cell. The closed cell also run very smooth on the paint, and get great rotation.

A con, especially on the 3401 is their heat retention. A lot of heat comes from the center hole of that tool. Heat can react negatively with the foam, often rupturing the cells and causing the pad to concave in.

Buff and Shine offers their Uro-Cell line of closed cell foam pad that feature a vent hole, mitigating heat build up. They work well on the 3401, but I don't like them on the Porter Cable, where I love the Hydrotech pads..

I find that I get pad saturation from using excessive amounts of polish and using too much pressure on the tool. The pump action of pressing the pad on the paint repeatedly sort of causes the pad to draw in the liquid deeper into the pad. On a traditional free spinning orbital I also tend to reload the pad around the circumfrence because that tool tends to draw liquid towards It's center.

I like the Hex and CCS pad designs. In the spirit of the ubiquitous waffle pad, they tend to run a little cooler. They also seem to rotate well due to decreased surface tension. I've not yet experienced them leaving any micromarring relative to flat designs of those foams.

If you like the Hex pads, and want to try them flat, look at the 5.5" Buff and Shine Grip Pads. Be advised that the 4", and 6.5" have a different foam line up (white is not polishing, but ultra finishing, yellow is American foam instead of European foam, no red..).

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I've spent some more time with the CG Quantum Hexlogic pads and I like them. They don't jump around and contour to panels well. I currently have the green and orange, but looking into the white as well.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

[PSL Rich]

Really like the experience and expertise shared in this post!

I started detailing with a $200 Torqx D/A buffer and some Hex-Logic pads - never had any issues of any kind or problems with micro-marring, but, in fairness never attempted to use the Hex-Logic pads on any other D/A buffer - certainly not on a long throw D/A like my Rupes 21LHR or a forced rotation D/A like my Flex 3401. I never chose to test other pads on the Torqx since, as I said, I never had any issues.

I did have a problem with some Rupes pads, which I thought might have been defective, when I first started using the 21LHR, but, in hindsight I think it was more likely a heat buildup issue as a result of “user error” on my first experience with a (very) long throw and large pads on a large vehicle.

In any event, upon replacing the pads (thanks again Mike) I have had no problems since and will continue to use Rupes pads on the 21LHR. On the Rupes polishers (21LHR and iBrid) I decided to stick with their pads and polishes - e.g. the complete Rupes system.

Since using the Lake Country Force Hybrid pads, which appear to be, in my limited experience, the perfect Flex 3401 pads. I decided I like them so much they’re the only ones I’ll stock for both the 3401 and going forward, the Torqx as well as the Hex-Logic pads get replaced.

Just trying first to get, and then to Keep It Simple Simon…

[snowracer21]

Closed cell foam has less tensile strength than open cell pads. This means instead of stretching they will simply tear, thus they won't last as long.

Also - while the "idea" of closed cell foam paints a picture in your mind's eye that the foam won't soak up product as much as a open cell foam, practical experience shows they still saturate with product so any benefit is short lived unless you change pads often, as in one pad per panel for compounding and polishing.


I'm not a fan of pad design and most pros I know think like me. Flat pads eliminate the risk of any particulate becoming lodged in the "design". For example, a few years ago Meguiar's introduced their Solo 1 foam pads with a diamond cut in the face of the pad. I was sitting in a meeting at Meguiar's when the pads were being developed. I asked, "What is the benefit to the diamond cut in the face of the pad?" the answer was it was a change up from the normal flat pad design Meguiar's introduced in 1965. In other words, no benefit. Where are the pads now? (they've been discontinued and now Meguiar's only offers FLAT foam pads).

So use the hexlogic if you like them but they are harder to clean with a brush, take longer to clean with a brush and because there are now "places" for an foreign debris, contaminants, even product to build up "into" they increase the risk for a problem i.e. a scratch being instilled into the paint during the buffing process.

I always post,

KISS - Keep it Simple Simon

Flat is your friend.


Also - be careful which Detailing Gurus or experts you follow.


:)

Mike,

I've always had good luck with Lake Country pads...I've only used LC Hydro tech and LC Force Hybrids (with the hole in the center) with my Flex 3401.

Would you recommend the LC Force Hybrids or just the LC Flat pads for use with the 3401?
For the Flex 3401, would you

[jolo]

Flex 3401 paired with LC Forced Hybrids is a killer combo.