Sio2 topper over polymer-based sealant

[Sumdown]

Preface: I put CarPro Elixir over the existing (3-months and going strong) Ultimate Fast Finish base the other day. I used it like a quick detailer, as advertised.

So, as you can see from the above, I did the unthinkable. It turned out there was some strange reaction, and the Elixir actually burned through the hood and engine, in the shape of a pentagram. Just kidding! My car looks glossy af. Obviously, no idea about durability yet, and it won't rain for a while so I won't be able to see the water properties for a few days.

In many forums, Ive read implicit and explicit advice that Sio2 products go on coatings only (via. Guz's excellent review of EliXir here, where a couple of times he explicitly mentions it's for coated cars), and you should put polymer products on polymer (that is, I should have put Beadmaker over FF, not EliXir). But I`ve never seen it explained why. My google-fu is merely yellow sash level, but have not found an explanation, just the advice, repeated in many threads, that Sio2 products should go on coatings only. I couldn`t find any explanation as to the science (e.g., the Sio2 will eat through the polymer, the Sio2 won`t bond to the FastFinish so will just wash off first rain, etc). I couldn`t even find any bad anecdotal stories. I found several other anecdotes around EliXir specifically, which people put on traditional sealants, with all positive results. CarPro specifically advertises EliXir as being for coated or uncoated cars.

I`d appreciate any pointers, links to threads, first-hand anecdotes, or scientific or informal explanations as to why I might have made a terrible mistake (if in fact, I did). Very much appreciate any help!

Frank

[Bradposton]

IN for answers as well.

[HockeyCrazi]

Interesting question, IN for answers as well

[Larry A]

I used SIO2 over Duragloss, Turtle Wax Express, and Mothers wax and no problem. Ive also used spray wax over S1O2 no problems . After all S1O2 is a form of silicone.

[rlmccarty2000]

There won’t be any problems. Very little SiO2 involved.

[Sumdown]

There won’t be any problems. Very little SiO2 involved.

Agree, it's pretty diluted. So what if it weren't? What negative effect would higher levels of Sio2 have on my fast finish?

[rlmccarty2000]

Agree, it's pretty diluted. So what if it weren't? What negative effect would higher levels of Sio2 have on my fast finish?

Probably would not bond at around 25% SiO2.

[Coatingsarecrack]

Agree, it's pretty diluted. So what if it weren't? What negative effect would higher levels of Sio2 have on my fast finish?

It may not bond so would be wiping off most of the sio2? Even if it did bond. Most sio2 coating last longer but would probably only last as UFF. Would be wasting money. You could probably top the other way around.

If you like UFF why not just top with another coat instead of trying to mix?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bolts]

Preface: I put CarPro Elixir over the existing (3-months and going strong) Ultimate Fast Finish base the other day. I used it like a quick detailer, as advertised.

So, as you can see from the above, I did the unthinkable. It turned out there was some strange reaction, and the Elixir actually burned through the hood and engine, in the shape of a pentagram. Just kidding! My car looks glossy af. Obviously, no idea about durability yet, and it won't rain for a while so I won't be able to see the water properties for a few days.

In many forums, Ive read implicit and explicit advice that Sio2 products go on coatings only (via. Guz's excellent review of EliXir here, where a couple of times he explicitly mentions it's for coated cars), and you should put polymer products on polymer (that is, I should have put Beadmaker over FF, not EliXir). But I`ve never seen it explained why. My google-fu is merely yellow sash level, but have not found an explanation, just the advice, repeated in many threads, that Sio2 products should go on coatings only. I couldn`t find any explanation as to the science (e.g., the Sio2 will eat through the polymer, the Sio2 won`t bond to the FastFinish so will just wash off first rain, etc). I couldn`t even find any bad anecdotal stories. I found several other anecdotes around EliXir specifically, which people put on traditional sealants, with all positive results. CarPro specifically advertises EliXir as being for coated or uncoated cars.

I`d appreciate any pointers, links to threads, first-hand anecdotes, or scientific or informal explanations as to why I might have made a terrible mistake (if in fact, I did). Very much appreciate any help!

Frank

i put reload over ultimate fast finish and it did not go on well. totally streaky and i really could not get it out maybe if i used a damp towel it could have. dont know. luckily i only did it on maybe a third of the hood and one fender. after that i told myself no more will i try that.

[DBAILEY]

SiO2 is not a silicone. It is silicon dioxide.

You can do it whatever way you want to. If a SiO2 topper applies over a polymer sealant or hybrid wax without any issues like streaking then go right ahead. You are using it like a spray wax.

[Sumdown]

Probably would not bond at around 25% SiO2.

Bonding issues, that makes sense, thanks!

[Sumdown]

i put reload over ultimate fast finish and it did not go on well. totally streaky and i really could not get it out maybe if i used a damp towel it could have. dont know. luckily i only did it on maybe a third of the hood and one fender. after that i told myself no more will i try that.

Interesting, really appreciate the real-life experience. EliXir has a very low concentration of Reload, and maybe that's why I had absolutely no streaking problems with EliXir. It went on and came off easily; as I said, it's glossy af and the finish seems flawless. I've read (full strength) Reload can be a challenge even in ideal conditions over a coating.

[Sumdown]

SiO2 is not a silicone. It is silicon dioxide.

You can do it whatever way you want to. If a SiO2 topper applies over a polymer sealant or hybrid wax without any issues like streaking then go right ahead. You are using it like a spray wax.

Exactly! CarPro actually sells Elixir as a quick detailer, and ech2o is actually sold as a waterless wash or QD. I think this is an important difference -- I use a spray wax on a clean just-washed dry or wet car, whereas EliXir should be usable on a not-just-washed, lightly dusty car (it's being sold as a QD, after all, and based off a waterless wash/QD product).

[Sumdown]

It may not bond so would be wiping off most of the sio2? Even if it did bond. Most sio2 coating last longer but would probably only last as UFF. Would be wasting money. You could probably top the other way around.

If you like UFF why not just top with another coat instead of trying to mix?



Coatings: I think you're right that, in general, a coating should outlast a polymer sealant, usually. But that's not what we're talking about here. I definitely wouldn't drop, say, cquartz on top of UFF. But what I'm asking about is Sio2 topper type products. Or, in other words:

Ultimate Fast Finish: is a polymer-based sealant with very high durability (I re-apply every 6 months, but wouldn't be surprised if it lasts nearly a year), but only moderate glossiness and interesting but not extreme hydrophobic properties. Usually applied a freshly washed and completely clean car -- either directly to paint, or on top of another sealant.

EliXir: is an Sio2-based quick detailer, low durability (expect it to last a few weeks, from reviews) but with very high glossiness and high hydrophobic properties. As a QD, applicable to a not-just-washed, lightly dusty car.

So, to answer your question about topping UFF with another coat:
- No reason to ever do a 2nd coat of UFF, to me. First, durability-wise it's completely unnecessary. Also, reinforcing its unspectacular glossiness with more unspectacular glossiness wouldn't seem to get me anywhere. Plus, UFF is not a QD.

- If I'm going for a short-term sacrificial layer on top of the UFF, and/or need a QD, EliXir brings in perfectly complementary properties -- wonderful glossiness, high hydrophobic properties (which I haven't seen yet), etc. Obviously, as the point of this thread, there are polymer-based options as well

[bolts]

Coatings: I think you're right that, in general, a coating should outlast a polymer sealant, usually. But that's not what we're talking about here. I definitely wouldn't drop, say, cquartz on top of UFF. But what I'm asking about is Sio2 topper type products. Or, in other words:

Ultimate Fast Finish: is a polymer-based sealant with very high durability (I re-apply every 6 months, but wouldn't be surprised if it lasts nearly a year), but only moderate glossiness and interesting but not extreme hydrophobic properties. Usually applied a freshly washed and completely clean car -- either directly to paint, or on top of another sealant.

EliXir: is an Sio2-based quick detailer, low durability (expect it to last a few weeks, from reviews) but with very high glossiness and high hydrophobic properties. As a QD, applicable to a not-just-washed, lightly dusty car.

So, to answer your question about topping UFF with another coat:
- No reason to ever do a 2nd coat of UFF, to me. First, durability-wise it's completely unnecessary. Also, reinforcing its unspectacular glossiness with more unspectacular glossiness wouldn't seem to get me anywhere. Plus, UFF is not a QD.

- If I'm going for a short-term sacrificial layer on top of the UFF, and/or need a QD, EliXir brings in perfectly complementary properties -- wonderful glossiness, high hydrophobic properties (which I haven't seen yet), etc. Obviously, as the point of this thread, there are polymer-based options as well

i really like uff. i put uff over powerlock but could not tell or see the difference. from my experience with reload and sio2, i will just use sio2 with ceramic coatings not with polymer or wax. i would assume you can do polymer over polymer and it would work.