Help with my makita po500oc

[Nineteen86]

I just upgraded my polisher and finally had the time to put it to use . I'm really having difficulty handling this polisher . I Tried using chemical guys hex orange pads and it feels very bouncy , grippy, and walks all over the place . I really have to put all my strength into it and it was like trying to tame a wild beast.

I read the forums and people suggest using thin pads , I bought one low pro mf and low pro thin orange pads by hd and an orange pad by Makita . These are the only pads my local detailing supply store had .


hd low pro mf - the walking was less , no grabbing , no bounce but still had to use some muscle to control it, got hot really quick and didn't cut good

hd Low pro thin orange - a lot of walking, bouncy , very grippy wobble at times and very hard to control , didn't cut good

chemical guys orange pad - a lot of walking , bouncy , wobbly and very very hard to control , cut the best out of the three

makita orange pad ( I thought this would solve the problem since it's their pad for the polisher ) less walking , smoother then the rest but still had to use some muscle to control it, didn't cut well.

i use megiuiars 105 cutting compound for all the pads using speed 4.5

for polishing I had better results

- chemical guys white pad . - everything was alot better and smoother it gave me trouble around curve areas and walk every now and then but with this pad it felt more like what I was use too using my old da polisher which was chemical guys torkx

are the pads my problems or my machine have a problem or am I not experience enough / strong enough to handle this machine. I detail half a car got decent results but are different pads going to solve my problem because pads are kinda of expensive here in Canada spent 70 dollar on three test pads which I can't really use any more so any suggestion would be great because after doing half of the car I was beat and exhausted and wanted to give up. It really took the enjoyment away as I do this as a hobby. I was really excited to use this machine but now I'm kind of regret upgrading.

Here a few picture of my work , I'm not good at taking picture but the results were decent,

65189

65190

Reflection picture, I think I took it too close , yah I know, China slippers and Asian squat , very classy lol was too lazy to take another one

65191

[SWETM]

What polishes do you use. There can be a big difference in lubrication from them. That if not good or dries to fast you can get it very grabby. Normaly the free spinning DA stops spinning but the direct driven DA polisher gets you the workout you experienced. And when talking about drying out the polish. How many passes per sections do you do? And is this grabbing comes directly when you start to polish? Then it could be the prep work. Do you clay thoroughly before so you feel a smooth paint? This can come very fast to grabbing too. And one more thing is how often you switch pads and clean them. The more dirt and polish residue and paint residue you get on the pad the more it will getting to bounce and want to grabb the paint.

The technique is also so you have control to see so you have the polishing pad flat on the paint. If no one can look while you polishing. Take and setup your mobile phone camera and film your self and see how you have the polisher leveled.

When it comes to pad recommendation I don't have an easy access to the AGO pads. So only what I have seen and read is that Lake Country Thin Pro pads seems to be great ones. But hope others shime in with more options for you.

Edit: Saw that you use M105 compound. If worked to long it can dry on you. Don't know how the M100 or M101 is at being being well lubricated but could be an option to get. And others that uses them can certainly shime in how they are. I like Sonax Cutmax and Menzerna HC400 compounds.

[Goonie75]

I agree with SWETM in that forced rotation is a workout and FLAT is key. Once I learned to keep my Makita flat the hopping and bouncing stopped and became a much better experience..

Sent from my SM-G965U using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

[dlc95]

Try the green with 105, and blue with 205.

This foam are like the old rotary foams, where the green was considered cutting, and blue polishing.

Their cut was dependent on both cell/pore size, and density, rather than just density.

These days the industry uses density to determine cut. Some of these pads can be very difficult to maneuver, have a reduced footprint, and resist contouring to irregularities. Their cut is based more on their ability to mash the abrasives into the paint, than using coarseness to the foam. Many get really soft and smooth when even slightly moistened.

The green and blue American foam pads are softer, and the green grittier. This allows for a more forgiving user experience when paired with a forced rotation tool.

[Setec Astronomy]

All the previous posters have hit the nail on the head, variously, that with a forced-rotation machine, your technique, pad, and chemical selection all play a role in whether you are driving the polisher or it is driving you.

[Mike Phillips]

I'll chime in....

Besides holding the pad flat the thickness of the pad is a factor. First a little Car Wax History. Back in 2010 I coined the saying,

Thin is in... (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/28825-thin-new-lake-country-hydro-tech-low-profile-5-1-2-x-7-8-inch-foam-pads.html)


Until LC introduced the Hydro-Tech Pads, most of the pads on the market were uber thick. (actually, the 5.5" LC Flat Pads were also introduced about this same time) Here's the deal.... on short stroke FREE SPINNING orbital polishers, thinner pads tend to rotate better than thicker pads simply due to the fact that it's easier for the tool to maintain pad rotation. No pad rotation = no work being done.

When it comes to gear-driven orbitals, which for the last decade has been the BEAST aka the FLEX 3401, this tool doesn't care if the pad is thick or thin, it's gear-driven... it's going to both rotate and ocilate the pad no matter what. So might as wel use a thicker pad as you have more pad for your money (wears longer), but also a thicker pad can SMOOTH out the buffing experience simply because foam and especially thicker foam can CONTOUR to the shape of the panel.

What I've noticed with THIN pads on gear-driven tools, this would include the Makita PO5000C, the RUPES Mille and the FLEX 3401 - is that thicker pads mean a smoother feel to the machine overall when buffing. Thinner pads tend to enable the tool to jerk you around when you move from a flat surface to a curved surface.

I explain this in all my classes and then let the students experience thin versus thick pads on all the gear-driven tools and in each class I am vindicated. This is even more true when talking about or using harder, foam cutting pads versus softer foam polishing and finishing pads.

The pads I like for the 5mm gear-driven tools are the

Buff & Shine 5.5" pads
Buff & Shine Uro-Tec Foam Pad System for long throw orbital polishers (https://www.autogeek.net/uro-tec-foam-pads.html)


Lake Country 5.5" HDO pads
Lake Country HDO 5.5 Inch Foam Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/6-inch-lake-country-hd-rupes-pads.html)


Lake Country 5.5" SDO pads
Lake Country SDO Foam Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-sdo-pads.html)


Even the RUPES 6" pads for the BigFoot polishers
Rupes 150 mm (6 inch) Foam Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/rupes-6-inch-foam-pads.html)


Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. For example I find the Lake Country 6.5" Force Hybrid Pads, (these are THICK), work very well on the LONG STROKE FLEX Finisher.


Always remember - there are major buffing differences or characteristics between

Free spinning versus gear-driven orbitals
Free spinning short stroke versus free spinning long stroke
Free spinning short stroke versus gear-driven short stroke


The above is all off the top of my head.... I'm probably missing something...



:)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I consider myself a gear driven DA expert. :) I own a Flex 3401, sold the Makita PO5000c, and the Rupes Mille is en route. As much as people complain about the fatigue and walking of the 3401, the larger 8mm throw makes it *a lot* more forgiving when it comes to pad selection(versus the smaller 5mm throw of the PO5000c/Mille). I sold the PO5000c because of the exact same problem you're having; every pad I tried on it made it feels 10 times WORSE than the 3401. I'm not a "system" guy, but if there's one system I would use, it would be with the Rupes Mille. With the shorter 5mm throw being SO picky as far as smoothness, Rupes came up with pads and polishes to specifically to combat the exact problems you're having. This doiesn't mean I won't venture out of the Rupes Mille system, but I will sure start with it.

Also, M105 is a dry polish. With 5mm gear driven, you want to use a well lubricated polish. Very important.

I also really like the fact the Mille spins clockwise.

Give the LC SDO or B&S Uro-Tec pads a try, I think they'd work much better.

[DBAILEY]

I found that holding the polisher with the back end tilted to about 7-8 o'clock to my body, instead of perpendicular, gave me the most control. I'm right handed by the way, so maybe 4-5 o'clock for a lefty

[WRAPT C5Z06]

When it comes to gear-driven orbitals, which for the last decade has been the BEAST aka the FLEX 3401, this tool doesn't care if the pad is thick or thin, it's gear-driven... it's going to both rotate and ocilate the pad no matter what. So might as wel use a thicker pad as you have more pad for your money (wears longer), but also a thicker pad can SMOOTH out the buffing experience simply because foam and especially thicker foam can CONTOUR to the shape of the panel.

What I've noticed with THIN pads on gear-driven tools, this would include the Makita PO5000C, the RUPES Mille and the FLEX 3401 - is that thicker pads mean a smoother feel to the machine overall when buffing. Thinner pads tend to enable the tool to jerk you around when you move from a flat surface to a curved surface.







:)
Hi Mike, why do you think Rupes went with thin pads?

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike, why do you think Rupes went with thin pads?




Don't know?

I spoke with Jason Rose about this when I was at RUPES in Colorado a few weeks ago teaching our Roadshow Class. I shared with him my experience that thicker pads seem to buff easier and smoother.

Pictures: Autogeek's Roadshow Class at RUPES in Colorado - 2018 (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/autogeek-roadshow-detailing-classes/120912-pictures-autogeeks-roadshow-class-rupes-colorado-2018-a.html)


As a professional courtesy, I make sure everyone uses the official RUPES Mille pads on the Mille polishers in my class and then if the student wants I let them try thicker pads like the ones I listed. I'm pretty sure each person that has tried both thin and thick pads has concurred with me that the thicker pads buff smoother.

I'm working in the RUPES booth at SEMA next week as well as the Lake Country booth, FLEX booth and SONAX booth so I'm hoping to get the latest updates on ALL the new tools coming out. :)


For those attending SEMA this year, here's my schedule, please do stop by and say hi!


SEMA Booth Schedule - 2018 (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions-/120942-sema-booth-schedule-2018-a.html)



Happy to say that Lake Country has promised me the FIRST UDOS to test out and write a review for and there are other tools I'm being asked to test both the tools and the pads.


I've been buffing as long as many and longer than most. Written a few books specifically ON TOOLS so I appreciate the opportunity to test and provide feedback during the prototype stage.


:dblthumb2:

[Nineteen86]

Try the green with 105, and blue with 205.

This foam are like the old rotary foams, where the green was considered cutting, and blue polishing.

Their cut was dependent on both cell/pore size, and density, rather than just density.


The green and blue American foam pads are softer, and the green grittier. This allows for a more forgiving user experience when paired with a forced rotation tool.


- are you talking about the chemical guys green pads ?





How many passes per sections do you do? And is this grabbing comes directly when you start to polish? Then it could be the prep work. Do you clay thoroughly before so you feel a smooth paint? This can come very fast to grabbing too. And one more thing is how often you switch pads and clean them. The more dirt and polish residue and paint residue you get on the pad the more it will getting to bounce and want to grabb the paint.



- i do about 2 passes for the m 105 half way through the 2nd pass the compound kinda get dusty and disapear .

- one pad per secion , ie, door , half a hood, quater pannel and so on

- i clean the pad every time witha brush before putting more product .

- i clayed the car clean and washed it twice

- it starts being grabby about 1/4 of doing the first pass, but after reading everyone comment, it big be my technique is wrong andnot having it flat .

- i can pad every two section or once there to much product caked on it. i go through about 4 - 5 pads for compounding and 3-4 for for polishing stage .

------------------------------

thanks for the dvice guys, i think it might just be my technique, i just thought itll be easy to use like a free spining da didnt know i would need some muscle to use it. on the hood , roof and trunk area its a bit easier as im pushing down but when i do the side that when things become even more difficult. going back and forth latterly seems easier to handle but when swicthing going any other dirextion thats whne its becomes unstable and i run into all my problems .

last question , since this is a more powerfull machine , am i suppose to be moving faster like a rotary polisher ?

mike - im gonna try your pad suggestion, going to buy the buff and shine and lake country hdo since the last pads not available here in canada

[Rsurfer]

Hi Mike, why do you think Rupes went with thin pads?
Good question. Rupes has thicker pads, but they made the thinner pads explicitly for the Mille..Even the box say its for the Millie.

[DBAILEY]

Maybe start off at a much slower speed to make sure you are laying down an even film of polish over your section before cranking up your speed. Don't just dab the pad face over the section and go at it. Sounds like you are hitting wetter more lubricated spots and then dry spots.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Like I said before, the 5mm throw makes it pretty finicky when it comes to pad selection(as far as smoothness). Once you find the right pads, it should be way smoother and less jerky. Using a well lubricated polish and priming the whole face of fresh pad is also very important.

[Mike Phillips]

Maybe start off at a much slower speed to make sure you are laying down an even film of polish over your section before cranking up your speed.

Don't just dab the pad face over the section and go at it. Sounds like you are hitting wetter more lubricated spots and then dry spots.




Good technique tip.


In my classes, whether you use the Kissing Technique, dabbing product around the area to be worked end then start buffing, (this technique is share in my how-to books), or whether you just place the face of the pad against the paint and start buffing, either way the FIRST thing you do is spread your product out over the area to be worked to create a UNIFORM layer of product which is both the abrasives and the lubricants.

A lot of experts call the lubricants fillers - that just shows they don't understand the big picture.


But like DBAILY stated, spread your product out so you have a uniform layer of product to provide uniform LUBRICATION and this will help the pad to buff over the surface smoothly no matter what the thickness or type of pad.

Good Technique 101


:)