Just got my Makita PO6000C 6” Polisher ... and a few questions ...

[Submariner]

I had a few questions and then saw an awesome huge thread comparing the PO5000C ( same mc just 5” pads) and 2 other similar machines.

Bluntly the issues arrising completely threw me as a newbie to polishing.

1. I thought one of the main advantages of the DA Random Orbit machines were they ran cooler, and hence less likely to damage paint in the hands of an inexperienced user.
2. The mix of the Orbital movement and rotation, helped prevent Holograms forming.

So I was very surprised to see how many said in Free spinning mode, theirs didnt spin! And it was useless in that mode :(

This confusion was compounded after seeing 2 videos by Makita comparing the Forced Rotation mode and the Random Orbit mode. In both videos, in free spinning mode, the pad did not rotate??

I have not tried it on a car yet, but in free air mine spins? In both modes.
could the bigger 6” Pad have something to do with it.?

I was also confused, that so many seemed disapointed, and I wondered ... well if rotation is so vital ... then whats wrong with just using it in Forced Rotation mode?

And then I wondered if set in ‘forced rotation’ mode, does this DA Polisher still offer me a lot of “protection” as a new to polishing user? And if not so much ... what sort of % protection. e.g. 50% or 10% etc.

Note mine will just be used to “Flash up a sparkle” on a Mercedes S Class Coupe with very few swirl marks, carefully washed with extensive power jetting, then snow foamed, then jet washed from a safe distance of course, and washed using then a wool mitt and PH Neutral AG Bodywash .

Note I will only be using 3Ms (least agressive) Ultrafina SE Polish and the corresponding gentle blue pad. So like as used to final polish a black car.
And then double coated with Collinite 476S wax.

imwas also surprised that the lock bolt tightened in the same direction as the arrow of rotation printed on the body.
I thought most machine ran clock wise from above .. so the locking bolt effectively tightened as it ran ( or in reality just didnt have a loosening effect on the bolt) or did I miss something here?

[ScottH]

I can only tell you from my firsthand experience that in free spin mode the PO5000C stalls under its own weight on speed 4. On speed 5 - it’s max speed setting - it’s rotation is only marginally better and still stalls far too easily for a machine of this price. I would never try to use it in free spin mode to correct any defects - not even swirls. It would be a very time consuming and frustrating endeavor due to the constant stalling. In free spin mode I would only use it to spread a wax or sealant. In gear mode the machine is great and very powerful. However I think Makita’s advertising it as a dual mode machine is misleading. Yes it has two modes but only one is useable. It would be nice if Makita fixed this and offered replacement to those who bought a machine expecting way more from free spin mode. My PC7424, GG6 and BOSS15 run circles around it in free spin mode. If you buy one, do so under the premise of using it in gear mode - forget free spin
Mode.

ScottH

[Submariner]

I can only tell you from my firsthand experience that in free spin mode the PO5000C stalls under its own weight on speed 4. On speed 5 - it’s max speed setting - it’s rotation is only marginally better and still stalls far too easily for a machine of this price. I would never try to use it in free spin mode to correct any defects - not even swirls. It would be a very time consuming and frustrating endeavor due to the constant stalling. In free spin mode I would only use it to spread a wax or sealant. In gear mode the machine is great and very powerful. However I think Makita’s advertising it as a dual mode machine is misleading. Yes it has two modes but only one is useable. It would be nice if Makita fixed this and offered replacement to those who bought a machine expecting way more from free spin mode. My PC7424, GG6 and BOSS15 run circles around it in free spin mode. If you buy one, do so under the premise of using it in gear mode - forget free spin
Mode.

ScottH

Hi Scott much appreciation for your comments.
Due to Amazon delivering 2 PO 6000Cs by accident ... I naturally compared them, and found run in free air .. they differed a lot in which one spun in DA mode. I.e. one spun on setting 2 upward and quite consistently, with a good spin on setting 3, 4 and 5. However the fisrt one other hardly moved on setting three and even on setting 5 only occaisionally spun around.
Thats not to say, once one put it on a panel, that they wouldnt be the same i.e stall virtually instantly.

I do admit I am totally confused. My probably ill-informed understanding was, that the advantage of a DA was the eccentric orbits reduced heat build up and avoided the paint burn through caused by moving the path of the constant abbraisive action found say in a rotary polisher around the panel, and so to my mind; if one then added a forced rotation to the Random Orbit motion, one would effectively move the Pad even more and therefore reduce heat build up even more?

I als assumed as the forced rotation action would “cut” across the Obit motion, that might help reduce the introduction of a swirl. I.e. the Orbit action is sort of cross hatched by the rotational motion.

So following that thought process; I assumed forced rotation would be the gentlest on paint and also the safest route, and probably would work faster as well.

Seeing Makita’s own (2 seperate promo) videos in free Spin Orbit only mode; there seems to be zero spin or rotation. So I probably stupidly assumed, that the only cutting action of this machine in free spin mode would really only be that of the fairly small 5.5mm Orbit. OK it might not work fast, but should be smooth to hold and give a very fine hi gloss finish.

My intended concept was to use it in forced rotation mode, and if that mode transpired to be was a tad too aggressive, to use the finest finishing-polishing compound and associated pad, ergo 3M Ultrafina SE and the Ultrafina Blue pads. And then give it a few passes in free spin mode to hopefully deliver that ultimate hologram free uber shine.

Naturally having never even picked up a da polisher before .. all this logic was pure conjecture.

Your experience with other similar DAs seems to mirror the complaints from many users ... et al that “you would be there all day” in free spin mode!

Hence another confusion on my part. Many of the complaints were that this machine was useless in free Orbit made as it hardly spun at all. As if the spinning was a good thing.
that seemed odd, because if the spinning action was such a good thing, then as this has gear driven forced rotation, if that was the Holy Grail then why not just turn it on? As surely in forced ritation mode it would blow away the competition that relied on hap hazard free spinning . Hope you get my point.

and then treat the Makitas free spining - Random Orbit mode, as a super fine uber glossing action.... to be seen as an added extra.

I am assuming that if say in Random Orbit mode the PO600C doesn't rotate at all .... I am still assuming that the Orbit action would in fact polish the panel to some extent, albeit extremely lightly/finely? Or is that not the case?

Am I right, that if it does take forever in free spin mode; that at least it must be extremely gentle on paint in free spin mode i.e. extremely unlikely for a novice to wreck his paint job? ( by that I mean if you guys say it takes forever to correct a swirl ... then a positive for me is its not taking off much clearcoat? )

As I am a retired old un, I was hoping it could save some muscle power and be used once a month to spread out some Collinite 476S wax. Thinking of the frequency, I would be looking for the least agressive wear on the clear-coat. So should I use the free spin mode for that ? or would it be more efficient or even essential to use forced rotation mode to do that?

Note I was going to use the same pad :-
“3M Perfect-it III Ultrafina SE High Gloss Pad Blue, 50388 - for Ultrafina Polish and Polish Rosa, 2 Pad Pack”
As 3M says that is also for Polish Rosa that I believe is just a wax, ( i.e. no cutting power at all).

As an aside, doing it by hand I just use those small microfibre circular pads circa 3” . As they just fit inside the tin, that works.
So I wondered when one uses a 6” pad on the DA, how do you get the wax onto the buffer pad?
Like use a spatula to smear some wax onto the pad, and then spread it out on the panel on a slow setting?
Any tips welcome

[ScottH]

Hi there. Whether the DA is in gear driven mode or free spin, the pad rotates (spins) and oscillates and these two motions combine to remove defects and prevent the introduction of new defects (e.g. swirls). As with any gear driven machine, you will notice the pad rotation is not impacted much or at all by downward pressure of curved panels - it just keeps spinning away - great for correction work. But you will also notice the machine will want to walk away from you - pulling away so to speak. Free spin DA’s do not exhibit this pull-away and are described as smoother as a result. I have several free spin DA’s that I can hold on the paint with one hand with zero effort - as a test of course, not something you should do as a Normal course of action.

So summing it all up - rotation is required for efficient defect removal. A pad that just oscillates May correct minor defects and will take much longer than a pad rotating and oscillating. This is where the Makita is very weak - free spin mode. As a result it cannot in real-life be used as a 2-in-1 machine at least not if the intention is to remove defects in free spin mode.

As far as the question about spreading wax with it in DA mode,
Yes a good use for it. I use a disposable plastic knife to spread the wax on the pad - almost as you would butter on toast. Then as you mentioned, easy does it with speed - lowest speed that provides rotation.

ScottH

[Submariner]

Hi there. Whether the DA is in gear driven mode or free spin, the pad rotates (spins) and oscillates and these two motions combine to remove defects and prevent the introduction of new defects (e.g. swirls). As with any gear driven machine, you will notice the pad rotation is not impacted much or at all by downward pressure of curved panels - it just keeps spinning away - great for correction work. But you will also notice the machine will want to walk away from you - pulling away so to speak. Free spin DA’s do not exhibit this pull-away and are described as smoother as a result. I have several free spin DA’s that I can hold on the paint with one hand with zero effort - as a test of course, not something you should do as a Normal course of action.

So summing it all up - rotation is required for efficient defect removal. A pad that just oscillates May correct minor defects and will take much longer than a pad rotating and oscillating. This is where the Makita is very weak - free spin mode. As a result it cannot in real-life be used as a 2-in-1 machine at least not if the intention is to remove defects in free spin mode.

As far as the question about spreading wax with it in DA mode,
Yes a good use for it. I use a disposable plastic knife to spread the wax on the pad - almost as you would butter on toast. Then as you mentioned, easy does it with speed - lowest speed that provides rotation.

ScottH

Hi Scott your informative info is very much appreciated; as I am doing all my “armchair” learning in my post Back Operation recuperation time. Very frustrating not being able to just nip outside and trial and error these theories.
As winter in coming on and no heated garage, I need to do all my purchasing and theoretical learning so in 3 weeks I am all set for my first attempt.

Re the application of Wax, I use Collinite 476S. Once applied ... can I just airtight seal the Pad in a ziplock plastic bag, ready for the next application in 3 months or should I clean the pad with Lukewarm water ( per 3Ms Instructions) .... I dont really see lukewarm water cleaning off Collinite. :-/

I am still puzzled why some Free Spin DAs actually spin more than others. OK I guess things like a larger throw, say 15mm as opposed to the Makita’s 5mm, might induce more centrafugal force etc.

But I noticed from the parts list, their is some complex gearing in this machine. I wondered if one added some more grease could that induce More spin?
the question is what type of grease ? high temp bearing grease, or maybe Lithium high temp grease?
Probably best to leave alone as no doubt it would invalidate the warranty :)

[Nineteen86]

im in the same boat as you Submariner. alot of great information here as i just bought this polsiher. i saw it on sale for 160 usd and i couldnt pass on the deal as it was a no brainier. from reading alot of thread about this polsiher , seems like everyone who owns this polisher loves it and only use it on force mode. im sure as a newbie youll love this machibe vs using a begingger polisher like a portal cable.

[Submariner]

im in the same boat as you Submariner. alot of great information here as i just bought this polsiher. i saw it on sale for 160 usd and i couldnt pass on the deal as it was a no brainier. from reading alot of thread about this polsiher , seems like everyone who owns this polisher loves it and only use it on force mode. im sure as a newbie youll love this machibe vs using a begingger polisher like a portal cable.

$160 thats an amazing deal! In the UK all that would buy you is a Das Pro.
Was that new?
I finally found someone in Germany who sells the 5” BP for £26 ( the official german price) and ships to the UK. :):) Some robbers were wanting £100!
I also found the Flex 75mm pad fits as long as you get a longer 20mm allen key bolt with a short head.

So I now have 6” and 5” and 3” backing pads for the machine ... so I am all sorted on that front. :):)
Obviously the machine head is really too big to get into tight areas but at least I can do thin strips .. like between the wi dscreen and the sunroof.

The big question is ... will I be able to do a decent job ;)

[Nineteen86]

$160 thats an amazing deal! In the UK all that would buy you is a Das Pro.
Was that new?
I finally found someone in Germany who sells the 5” BP for £26 ( the official german price) and ships to the UK. :):) Some robbers were wanting £100!
I also found the Flex 75mm pad fits as long as you get a longer 20mm allen key bolt with a short head.

So I now have 6” and 5” and 3” backing pads for the machine ... so I am all sorted on that front. :):)
Obviously the machine head is really too big to get into tight areas but at least I can do thin strips .. like between the wi dscreen and the sunroof.

The big question is ... will I be able to do a decent job ;)

yah its brand new , its from a canadian hardware store. not sure if im allow to post the ad link but you can pm . the original price was $399.99 cad on sale for $197.00 cad ( $118.35 gbp uk currencey), they ship worldwide and also have a option for you to use your own shipping couieer / method.
they had tons of other makita tools and im asumming the polisher didnt sell well as it is a hardware store vs a store catering to detailing professional / enthusiast . i was just re seraching about the tool / price and some how stumble on the website and when i saw it for 50 % off i bought it in a heart beat.

anyways back to your thoughts about making the free spin function work , i ran into this comment on youtube watching this review YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJkRkpRW33E).

"Makita PO6000C is made in Japan and sold in Australia, I could send you a backing plate if you want. this tool needs a washer to make the random orbital part of the machine spin faster. One thing I noticed when I was testing this machine which makita sent me was that if you switched backing plates to a non makita plate which you can, the vibration is the same at speed 1-4 but you crank it up to speed 5 and the machine will vibrate like crazy with a non makita plate. All the best mate. "

therefore i think thier is a way to make it work .

[Submariner]

yah its brand new , its from a canadian hardware store. not sure if im allow to post the ad link but you can pm . the original price was $399.99 cad on sale for $197.00 cad ( $118.35 gbp uk currencey), they ship worldwide and also have a option for you to use your own shipping couieer / method.
they had tons of other makita tools and im asumming the polisher didnt sell well as it is a hardware store vs a store catering to detailing professional / enthusiast . i was just re seraching about the tool / price and some how stumble on the website and when i saw it for 50 % off i bought it in a heart beat.

anyways back to your thoughts about making the free spin function work , i ran into this comment on youtube watching this review YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJkRkpRW33E).

"Makita PO6000C is made in Japan and sold in Australia, I could send you a backing plate if you want. this tool needs a washer to make the random orbital part of the machine spin faster. One thing I noticed when I was testing this machine which makita sent me was that if you switched backing plates to a non makita plate which you can, the vibration is the same at speed 1-4 but you crank it up to speed 5 and the machine will vibrate like crazy with a non makita plate. All the best mate. "

therefore i think thier is a way to make it work .

That is a true bargain.
Thank you for the offer of sending me a backing pad, much appreciated. But I think its sorted.
Via either the German supplier or hopefully Makita UK will come back and say they are now selling them.

I am most interested to see if there is a vibration difference between 5” and 6” Makita plates ( ref diff size And weight) .

Having taken off the backing pad I was confused how a washer could effect the rotation speed in free spin mode?
I have seen on the flex or rupes ( cant remember which) , that there is a felt ring .. that could effect resistance to spinning , and therefore see how a washer could enhance that. But just dont see how a washer would make the Makita spin more.
How does that work?

Regards
Peter

[SWETM]

Is the rubber seal that is just above the backing plate touching the backing plate?

That is why a washer gets it to rotate free from the rubber/plastic seal on the Rupes and longthrows polishers. It's designed to stop the pad from spinning when turning the polisher of. And it's made to not hinder the backing plate spinn when running too. It gets you a higher opm with the washer mod on. Not by very much but a noticeble difference.

Hope you get your 5" backing plate soon Peter.

/Tony

[Mike Phillips]

Lots of great questions....

If it were me?

I would put it in the gear-driven mode, attach a foam polishing pad and start polishing cars. As long as you're using GREAT abrasive technology only good is going to come from it....



I let my class use this tool and all the gear-driven tools here at Autogeek over the weekend, I'll post pictures today. All the cars came out looking AWESOME!


The tool works if you work it.



:)

[Submariner]

Is the rubber seal that is just above the backing plate touching the backing plate?

That is why a washer gets it to rotate free from the rubber/plastic seal on the Rupes and longthrows polishers. It's designed to stop the pad from spinning when turning the polisher of. And it's made to not hinder the backing plate spinn when running too. It gets you a higher opm with the washer mod on. Not by very much but a noticeble difference.

Hope you get your 5" backing plate soon Peter.

/Tony

That is precisely my point on the Makita, nothing touches the backing plate! So raising it with a washer would not make any difference.
Hence my interest in this “fix” .... is he proposing inserting a washer somewhere else in the guts of the drive mechanism.? Surely not, over complexity and warranty issues would rule that out for me.

Thanks Tony, I have a good German source for the genuine 5” pad, at a fair price and a reasonable shipping fee, so I am just waiting on Makita UK to let me know if it will be available here i.e. with no International shipping .

[Submariner]

Lots of great questions....

If it were me?

I would put it in the gear-driven mode, attach a foam polishing pad and start polishing cars. As long as you're using GREAT abrasive technology only good is going to come from it....

I let my class use this tool and all the gear-driven tools here at Autogeek over the weekend, I'll post pictures today. All the cars came out looking AWESOME!

The tool works if you work it.

:)
Hi Mike
thanks thats pretty much the plan. Just waiting for the back to heal, and the 5” backing pads to arrive, as the four 3M blue ultrafina pads are too small for the 6” BP. But the Rupes 180mm white Ultra Fine Polishing pad fits the 6” BP nicely .
pretty much got everything ready now, and thanks for your help ... the Rupes 3” fits perfectly with the custom low head 20mm allen key bolt.

I guess its now a question of trying various pads to see which suit this tool the best.
if the 3M Ultrafina SE polish doesnt work out, I will get some Menerva 3800.

look forward to seeing those pictures, thats the beauty of this site ... you can actually see real world results ... and of course get the vital advice.

Peter