Hardest paint I have ever seen

[DaveT435]

I started a thread in another section on here titled "what is this". This paint is by far the hardest paint I've ever seen. It's a 2010 Lexus LS460, of course I was expecting soft or fairly soft paint. It turned out to be a respray. According to my PTG everything but the roof was resprayed. The car was swirled and scratched pretty badly. The heavy swirl came out fairly easily. But under neath it was still covered in scratches.



That's where the fun began. I tried test spot after test spot all the way up to my PE14 and wool and it still wasn't giving me the cut I wanted. On top of this the face of every pad and even the tips of wool pad were glazed when I got done. I ended up wet sanding the worst spots by hand and got some improvement. These scratches weren't that deep and should have been removed pretty easily, especially with wet sanding.

I ended up wet sanding the whole car by machine with 3000 grit discs. Finally the scratches were gone. Now to remove the 3000 grit sanding marks...no problem right?? I couldn't be so lucky. The Griot's Fast Correcting Cream and Boss white pads on my G21 weren't removing them.

I ended up going over the car with 5000 grit by hand, I didn't have 5000 grit discs. Even those scratch marks weren't coming out very easily. I finally decided to try a CarPro Flash pad I had purchased a couple years ago. Using the flash pad like a regular cutting pad with the Fast Correcting Cream I was finally able to get it to the point where I could finish it out. The roof by the way was a piece of cake.

The measurements I was getting were around 8 mils. The roof was around 5.5. I checked the door jams to give me some kind of reference, they measured about 3.6.

So either it was an extremely hard pain or there was something else put on the car over a whole lot of scratches. Any idea what I'm dealing with??

[rlmccarty2000]

Sounds like the clear they use on airplanes. You never know what these body shop guys get their hands on and use. I had a Cadillac that was resprayed and it was the hardest clear I have ever run across, but not as hard as you describe. I used microfiber pads and Menz 400 and a ton of passes on high speed to remove the scratches. Have you tried Menz 300 yet?

[DaveT435]

I haven't tried that yet. I had a bottle sitting in my cabinet for over a year and never needed it so I gave to away. That flash pad has some serious cut. I got it looking really good compared to what it looked like when it came in. Not knowing what I'm dealing with is really bothering me. If it's something on top of the clear it sands just like clear.

[FUNX650]

Sounds like the clear they use on airplanes.

You never know what these body shop guys
get their hands on and use.

^^^ :iagree:

(And sometimes for Semi/Fleet/Work trucks’
BC/CC, (and “integrated”-SS), paint systems.)


•Sounds like it’s possibly either:
-Imron (by: DuPont); or,
-Tractor and Implement Paint
(by: Majic/Valspar/etc.)


Bob

[DaveT435]

^^^ :iagree:

(And sometimes for Semi/Fleet/Work trucks’
BC/CC, (and “integrated”-SS), paint systems.)


•Sounds like it’s possibly either:
-Imron (by: DuPont); or,
-Tractor and Implement Paint
(by: Majic/Valspar/etc.)


Bob

Thank you. With the thickness of the paint only being 3 mils thicker than what I would expect to find on the vehicle, and very consistent over the whole vehicle it's almost like they just sprayed this clear over the factory paint. I guess it could have been a bad paint job from the factory and it was resprayed when it was new.

[Setec Astronomy]

Sounds like the clear they use on airplanes.


(And sometimes for Semi/Fleet/Work trucks’
BC/CC, (and “integrated”-SS), paint systems.)


•Sounds like it’s possibly either:
-Imron (by: DuPont); or,
-Tractor and Implement Paint
(by: Majic/Valspar/etc.)

I dunno...I kind of thought the CC used on cars now IS basically what used to be "airplane paint", a 2-part polyurethane.

[Kamakaz1961]

Have you considered Menzerna FG300? That is a very heavy cut and I experienced a very hard paint too. That seemed to work. You might want to look into that. The directions even say to use with caution.

[mwoywod]

FCC on either Meguiars or LC microfiber cutting pads is fantastic on hard paint. When it's really hard paint, M101 is great to have.

I personally never had much success cutting with foam pads on really hard paint

[DaveT435]

Have you considered Menzerna FG300? That is a very heavy cut and I experienced a very hard paint too. That seemed to work. You might want to look into that. The directions even say to use with caution.

Rimccarty already asked that. I didn't try it. I had a bottle on my shelf for over a year and never used it so I gave it away.mguess I should buy a bottle so I'll never need it again lol. I can't imagine ever coming across anything like this again, but ya never know...

[DaveT435]

FCC on either Meguiars or LC microfiber cutting pads is fantastic on hard paint. When it's really hard paint, M101 is great to have.

I personally never had much success cutting with foam pads on really hard paint

I used the FCC on Griot's microfiber pads. Wool and a rotary definitely has more cut than microfiber. It wasn't giving me the amount of cut I wanted. Try that CarPro flash pad, that will definitely change your mind about the ability of foam to cut. It's made to cut with one pass, of course I was going 5 or 6.

[Setec Astronomy]

That just sounds like crazy hard paint. I wonder if instead of it being "airplane" paint they just got their catalyst mix wrong, if that makes any difference.

[DaveT435]

That just sounds like crazy hard paint. I wonder if instead of it being "airplane" paint they just got their catalyst mix wrong, if that makes any difference.

The last time I mixed automotive paint was '79. So at this point I don't know much about it. It does seem like if you but too much of something in it that made it harder it would also make it more brittle. I assume whatever this is it's been on there for quite a while with the number of scratches right on the surface. It seems like there would have been other issues with the paint by now.

As I mentioned I don't know much about mixing paint, maybe someone with more expertise in that field.

[Coach Steve]

Hardest CC I've ever corrected was on a Chrysler Crossfire a couple of months ago. It was stock, from the factory and OMG!! was it brutal. Used Pinnacle compound and LC Thinpro gray pads followed by M205 and LC Thinpro orange pads. Turned out beautifully but it was a workout.
I later read that it was the hardest factory applied CC.

[LSNAutoDetailing]

Hardest CC I've ever corrected was on a Chrysler Crossfire a couple of months ago. It was stock, from the factory and OMG!! was it brutal. Used Pinnacle compound and LC Thinpro gray pads followed by M205 and LC Thinpro orange pads. Turned out beautifully but it was a workout.
I later read that it was the hardest factory applied CC.

Steve, that Pinnacle Advanced Compound is pretty good stuff eh? :)

[dlc95]

Anytime I'm getting shine on my pads, I'm picking up paint faster than I realize. A recent Audi I did had my pads glaze up after one or two passes. I used Rupes Zephir/original blue microfiber pads on a Duetto and Mini. At first I thought it was just super hard, but upon inspection, my set up was tripping over itself. The pads would clog before the defects were removed. This isn't always the case, but I've experienced it to the point that I more closely monitor my pad faces for this occurance.

My hardest paint was a black 99 Camaro Z28. I did a bunch of test spots. The 3401/fg400/LC original microfiber pad was what I used for most of that car, and it was an all out war.

I went to sleep, and when I woke up, I saw the D300/megs microfiber pads that I hadn't tried. I slapped the megs system on the resurrected Porter Cable 7424xp and worked those defects out with one set of passes, with much more comfort. The old thin Lake Country Ultra-Fiber pads were a very rough ride on the 3401.