Meguiars APC Problems

[KyleBis2]

Ok so i just want to say i think this APC is great for the price. That being said, its not perfect. Today I was doing an interior detail on a car with gray leather seats, using Megs D101 diluted 10:1. There must have been a spot where the cleaner dripped on the seat back because there was a spot and run mark. I'm not sure why this would happen and i had to scrub hard to get it out. I don't want to risk this happening again. Appreciate some help if you know whats going on. Thanks!

[Mantilgh]

I think it’s etching.

It can happen with stronger cleaners on paint or plastic. More so one painted plastic and “plastic” coated leather.

If you spray either and let a strong cleaner run down on to a dry surface it may etch.

Things that can be done to avoid it are work from the bottom up and you can either pre wet the surface with water, or I use a waterless wash to “wet” the surface.

You can also mop it on buy spraying your towel instead of the surface, but you still need to work from the bottom up and avoid runs like you had.

I haven’t personally used D101. This is my experience from using stronger, high pH (caustic) cleaners.

[custmsprty]

The best advice I can give you is learn about the ph scale and where each apc sits on the scale. The higher the ph the more aggressive or "hot" as we call it in the chemical business.

I personally only use ph nuetral cleaners on interiors.

Quote:
As almost all cleaning professionals know, there are three terms that apply to chemicals used in cleaning: acid, alkaline, or neutral. The pH scale ranges from 1 to 14 and is a measure of a solution's acidity or alkalinity. A pH of 7 is neutral; a pH less than 7 is acidic; and a pH greater than 7 is alkaline, or basic.

[damonb10]

The best advice I can give you is learn about the ph scale and where each apc sits on the scale. The higher the ph the more aggressive or "hot" as we call it in the chemical business.

I personally only use ph nuetral cleaners on interiors.


Just curious, can you share some of the ph neutral cleaners that you use for interiors?

[KyleBis2]

I'm fairly well versed in chemistry and understand the PH of the products i use. Are there any cost effective PH neutral cleaners out there?

[showbbq]

Maybe the stain would've happened with various liquids and not just the diluted APC. I haven't had any issues with D101 on cloth or leather seats. I either use a sprayer that can create a fine mist without dripping or I spray directly onto the towel.

[UncleDavy]

We had this discussion on another thread. Meguiars D101 has a pH of 13 in concentrate. That is one level below oven cleaner. Diluted 10:1 it has a pH of 11.959. Diluted 50:1 it has a pH of 11.292. It seems a bit too alkaline for interiors. A more pH neutral cleaner would be safer. Simple Green has a pH of around 9. Diluted 10:1 brings it down to 7.959. Meguiars does make an M39 heavy duty vinyl cleaner. The MSDS shows a pH range of 11.9 to 12.9. Leather cleaners are usually pH neutral and safe for vinyl surfaces.

[chet31]

I'm a former chemist. What evidence is there that the pH of the APC is the culprit?

[Calendyr]

Maybe you can look at it from an other angle?

What if, after you have cleaned, the surface wasn't completelly clean and the spot where the APC dripped cleaned that spot completelly?

If the area is lighter in color, it is very possible it removed all the dirt there, hense a different color.

[KyleBis2]

Maybe you can look at it from an other angle?

What if, after you have cleaned, the surface wasn't completelly clean and the spot where the APC dripped cleaned that spot completelly?

If the area is lighter in color, it is very possible it removed all the dirt there, hense a different color.

Thats what i was thinking. But i also went over that area with the D101 and a brush several times, then followed up with a steamer. It seemed pretty clean but thats also a good thought.

[KyleBis2]

We had this discussion on another thread. Meguiars D101 has a pH of 13 in concentrate. That is one level below oven cleaner. Diluted 10:1 it has a pH of 11.959. Diluted 50:1 it has a pH of 11.292. It seems a bit too alkaline for interiors. A more pH neutral cleaner would be safer. Simple Green has a pH of around 9. Diluted 10:1 brings it down to 7.959. Meguiars does make an M39 heavy duty vinyl cleaner. The MSDS shows a pH range of 11.9 to 12.9. Leather cleaners are usually pH neutral and safe for vinyl surfaces.

Is simple green something that you would recommend for interiors?

[KyleBis2]

I'm a former chemist. What evidence is there that the pH of the APC is the culprit?

Might be associating the PH with harshness of the chemical. I know that the dilution of a product changes the PH but i'm also not sure why that would change it so much. Yea i can probably dilute the D101 to a near neutral state, but that would be like 128:1. Then it wouldn't clean. The PH neutral vs alkaline war goes on. :)

[UncleDavy]

Is simple green something that you would recommend for interiors?

Simple Green is a pH neutral and relatively safe cleaner when diluted 10:1. I believe that it is good for general cleaning and would be a good start for a "least aggressive method first" approach. Depending on how badly soiled the interior is, you may have to go to a stronger concentration or a stronger cleaner. Meguiars D101 or D103 seem to be a forum favorites. I have also used Blackfire BF-450 diluted 4:1. Leather cleaners seem to be more pH neutral and they also work well on vinyl and plastic.

[UncleDavy]

[QUOTE=chet31;1573780]I'm a former chemist. What evidence is there that the pH of the APC is the culprit?[/QUOTE

Thanks for chiming in Chet. I am glad that we have a chemist in the house. I am an only an ME so I would like to hear your opinion. There was a discussion on another thread of how Meguiars D101 left a cloudy white residue on a black vinyl dashboard and the member was afraid that he ruined the interior. I looked at the pH of the chemical and the level 13 seemed too harsh to me. Even with a 50:1 dilution and a pH of 11.292 it still seemed too alkaline. If it is not the alkalinity, what else could it be?

[chet31]

[QUOTE=chet31;1573780]I'm a former chemist. What evidence is there that the pH of the APC is the culprit?[/QUOTE

Thanks for chiming in Chet. I am glad that we have a chemist in the house. I am an only an ME so I would like to hear your opinion. There was a discussion on another thread of how Meguiars D101 left a cloudy white residue on a black vinyl dashboard and the member was afraid that he ruined the interior. I looked at the pH of the chemical and the level 13 seemed too harsh to me. Even with a 50:1 dilution and a pH of 11.292 it still seemed too alkaline. If it is not the alkalinity, what else could it be?

You're only an ME? OK, I'll try to make this simple (joking, my son is an ME, I know how tough that degree is). A caveat, soap/detergent chemistry is sophisticated and I was not a soap chemist.

The point I was trying to make is that there are other chemicals in the APC that could cause the whitening. Ideally, we'd design an experiment simply using sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and distilled water, with no other chemicals. Wash a section of the dashboard with distilled water, wash a section with 0.001M NaOH (just NaOH + distilled water, nothing else, pH 11), a section with 0.01M NaOH (ph 12), and a section with 0.1M NaOH (pH 13). Properly rinse all sections. Check for whitening. That would tell us if high pH alone was the cause of the whitening. Actually, it wouldn't totally tell us that, you'd have to run the same experiment with other bases, but it would be a start.

We're also dealing with harsh detergents in the APC that can do damage. A harsh detergent can remove wax from clear coat. So could it damage plastic? I suppose (another experiment). More likely, there could have been 5 coats of old Armor All on the dash, and the APC would certainly would go to work on that.

Anyway, it could be the pH, or at least partially the pH, but it could also be the detergent or even some other additive causing the problem. Some kind of unlucky combination of what was in the APC what was on the dashboard.