wax, sealants, coatings

[Cruzscarwash]

so I see this starting a debate and I hope it does as I want to get lots of view points on the subject.


so I've been getting a lot of request from customers to ceramic coat, which is a great thing for me BUT there is a catch, they don't want the paint corrected. now there are about 3 other local detailers who now offer ceramic with no correction (they don't know how to correct) at first I was very much against this but the request are coming in more and more just for the coating and no correction.

now after about the 20th or so call/email and one in person talk with a customer it kinda made me think differently about how I view coatings. during the in person chat with a customer when I was talking about the correction before coating he had said "I'm not interested in the paint correction and really what's the point? I'm just tired of waxing my car multiple times a year, I don't have to correct it to apply a wax or sealant so why is it needed for the coating?"

well sir... shoot idk, yes I could have went on and said to get a good base, so it looks best, so it bonds better etc but I didn't, why? well because it it really needed? I mean really? will the coating not bond if the paint is not corrected?

another customer works with wood and said " well wouldn't it bond better by not having a smooth surface like when I rough up wood before painting bonding?.. seemed like a valid point to me.

I have applied coatings without correction before to kind of see what would happen and that client is at 14 months so far (mckees coating original formula)

so when a customer just doesn't want to wax their car for long periods of time and yes I know that sealants can up to or close to a year and that's normally what I try to push when they don't want correction but now I'm thinking if a coating can take that spot as it goes on just as easy and has a much shorter cure time before wipe off then sealants (mckees coating v2) just to give the customer what they are really wanting.

yes I know that my name is on the line and image and all that stuff, but if I'm giving the customer what they want and they know the pros and cons then aren't I doing my job by educating them?

have we let the companies and advertising get the better of us? I mean we always seem to find ways to use products "off label" to work better in our situations right?

idk what do you all think, I'm interested to hear what my family has to say.

[BudgetPlan1]

I coated a fleet vehicle or two w/ just decon/wash/panel wipe as it was really past the point, scratch-wise, of correction. Sure, woulda looked better with a bit of polishing but clay alone, done very carefully with lotsa lube, resulted in a 'good enough' finish that the coating kept the vehicle looking cleaner, longer, with less attention than just leaving it sit. WOuld I drop $250 worth of coatings on my car without correction? Nope, but the paintwork polishing is half the fun.

It all depends on what the final goal is...perfection or 'good enough' with added ease of maintenance.

I think perhaps the marketing of coatings, i.e. "The paint must be perfect because it's gonna be locked in for 5 years..." is a bit misleading if the car is actually, you know...driven on a daily basis during which time it will get dinged, scratched, chipped and marked up anyway.

If the goal is absolutely the best finish that can be had, correction = yes, but not because a coating will be applied but rather because someone wants the absolute best finish regardless of LSP. If someone is already happy with a car with some defects (as 75% of the world likely is) and there are no extenuating circumstances like severe oxidation, coat it and give them less maintenance as that's what they're looking for.

As long as surface is decontaminated and 'fresh', I doubt there is any scientific reason that a coating won't bond (or bond as well). Sometimes all this molecular cross-linking, nano-activity and such gets a bit outta hand. But I ain't no scientist, that's fer sure.

[minerigger]

I've not done a coating yet but I would think as long as the surface is clean via wash and then clayed smooth and ipa/prep or of your ballsy then just go for it. I'm not saying I cut corners but I'm not saying I wouldn't coat a vehicle if the customer didn't want correction. It would look better regardless I would think.

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[Cruzscarwash]

I've not done a coating yet but I would think as long as the surface is clean via wash and then clayed smooth and ipa/prep or of your ballsy then just go for it. I'm not saying I cut corners but I'm not saying I wouldn't coat a vehicle if the customer didn't want correction. It would look better regardless I would think.

Sent from my SM-G930V using TapatalkThis goes back to the looks better, when they just want to not wax and "shiney" paint that's what they are getting. I think our minds get the best of us and we just can't see it any other way

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[minerigger]

I agree we want it to look best but they may really not need it

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[acuRAS82]

Would you do a paint prep polish first prior to the coating, or only decon/prep spray?

[BudgetPlan1]

Would you do a paint prep polish first prior to the coating, or only decon/prep spray?Nah...still a machine applied deal. I think the idea is somebody not wanting to pay for you to put machine on paint. Just decon/prep...go.

[rlmccarty2000]

Give the customer what they want and charge accordingly. Remember you are a business and not the paint police. I would inform the customer that a wax will fill paint and make it look better, where a coating will make scratches shine and stand out. Let them choose.

[minerigger]

Would you do a paint prep polish first prior to the coating, or only decon/prep spray?

I'd try for a paint prep polish but if they wanted decon and then prep spray I'd do it but there would be a conversation before then.


Nah...still a machine applied deal. I think the idea is somebody not wanting to pay for you to put machine on paint. Just decon/prep...go.



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[MattPersman]

Correction sure would be great but really not everyone cares like you are finding out. Of course it would look better initially if you corrected it

If you legit got 20 people wanting that apparently it’s the current landscape of your market

I wouldn’t promise any longevity numbers just tell them it’s a coating and should last around a year before it needs redone.

Guess it depends on what coating you are going to use and what you can charge for these customers. Hopefully they understand that the coatings themselves cost more and it still should be prepped at a minimum level (Decon, clay whatever your process will be)

Give the people what they want and make a profit!




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[Cruzscarwash]

Correction sure would be great but really not everyone cares like you are finding out. Of course it would look better initially if you corrected it

If you legit got 20 people wanting that apparently it’s the current landscape of your market

I wouldn’t promise any longevity numbers just tell them it’s a coating and should last around a year before it needs redone.

Guess it depends on what coating you are going to use and what you can charge for these customers. Hopefully they understand that the coatings themselves cost more and it still should be prepped at a minimum level (Decon, clay whatever your process will be)

Give the people what they want and make a profit!




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSo I've wondered about this as well but does the correction really effect the longevity?? Or again is that just what we are used to thinking?

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[Loach]

As a business, if you can find a way to perform the work and be profitable in doing so while meeting the customer's wants and expectations, then it's a win-win for everyone. The issue with coatings is it's difficult to know in the short term when we're going to see a long term durability impact based on improper prep and application, and other issues that can affect the strength of the bond. Without IR lamps to accelerate the cure, if I have to wait a full week to give the coating time to cure before I can wash the paint, on a customer car there would be no way for me to gauge if the coating has bonded properly before they take it back.

In my tests the biggest beneficial impact on the performance of a wax/sealant/coating is the polishing stage. With CQUK I've skipped the IPA, I've applied over a fresh wax and over a glaze. But when I applied CQUK over top of unpolished paint, even after decontaminating and claying, this area showed the least amount of overall performance which is slower sheeting, and a more noticeable durability impact over time. I've seen this with other waxes and sealants as well, BSD had an incredible performance improvement when applied over the polished area compared to just the decontaminated area. In my case it's most likely a slight oxidation of the clear coat that is causing this durability impact which is removed during the polishing step but not the decon step (Florida sun).

[minerigger]

As a business, if you can find a way to perform the work and be profitable in doing so while meeting the customer's wants and expectations, then it's a win-win for everyone. The issue with coatings is it's difficult to know in the short term when we're going to see a long term durability impact based on improper prep and application, and other issues that can affect the strength of the bond. Without IR lamps to accelerate the cure, if I have to wait a full week to give the coating time to cure before I can wash the paint, on a customer car there would be no way for me to gauge if the coating has bonded properly before they take it back.

In my tests the biggest beneficial impact on the performance of a wax/sealant/coating is the polishing stage. With CQUK I've skipped the IPA, I've applied over a fresh wax and over a glaze. But when I applied CQUK over top of unpolished paint, even after decontaminating and claying, this area showed the least amount of overall performance which is slower sheeting, and a more noticeable durability impact over time. I've seen this with other waxes and sealants as well, BSD had an incredible performance improvement when applied over the polished area compared to just the decontaminated area. In my case it's most likely a slight oxidation of the clear coat that is causing this durability impact which is removed during the polishing step but not the decon step (Florida sun).Never thought if that bit it makes sense. Polished paint kicks water off quite well on its own so I'd guess it being glassy smooth would help the coating lay down the same and perform better. Only way to find out would be a test of coating on decon only paint and then on polished paint but I'm still of the idea of do it for a customer but let them know durability would still suffer and you may be able to drop down to a sealant and polish prior to that and be around the same price point...i dunno just thinking out loud

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[DMiglio]

I’m liking this thread, posting to be subscribed. Interested to see where this one goes although it seems as if there’s a lot of positive drive behind this.

[RippyD]

Interesting that you posted this now: I had the exact same thought last week. My gut says that you'll get better longevity if you clay first so the surface of the paint is more even. I have no idea of this is true. Other than removing anything the coating won't stick to, I'm not sure polishing does much that makes the coating adhere better. This is obviously a great opportunity for somebody (Cruz) to do some testing. Coating tests are hard, as you can be waiting seemingly forever to see differences.

I think the assumption has always been that who want coatings are willing to invest and people who are willing to invest want their car to look better, which means polishing. Apparently not. The downside, of course, is that when a coating gets marred or start to look bad it's going to have to be polished off. So it seems like most coatings will require polish to remove if not to apply. (Maybe not? Maybe some people re-apply coatings right over the top).

But in your case, if people want to pay you to do it, why would you not? I would just do the caveats so they are disappointed. Set the right expectation.