Black paint turned white

[Calendyr]

Hey guys, just wanna pick your brains for a sec.

A customer called me to come fix his car tomorrow.

He has a 2015 Black Mercedes and he says the lower part of the car turned white (it's a black car).

My first thought is that it's salt and or calcium contamination. Any other possible issue?

If it is calclum contaminants I think the best approach would be to wash, spray with vinegar and let dwell for several minute then clay.

Thinking it would probably need a polish afterwards.

Am I going about this wrong? Better way to deal with it?

If it's not calcium/Salt how would you work on that?

Thanks ;)

[itsgn]

He has a 2015 Black Mercedes and he says the lower part of the car turned white (it's a black car). My first thought is that it's salt and or calcium contamination. Any other possible issue?
If it's a painted surface, it might be clear coat failure. But that's very unlikely to happen to the bottom of the car first, unless probably it's been driven through a pool of acid or something. Or it could be something as simple as dried mud.

Anyway, you should probably ask him to send a few pictures either through email or cell phone - because without that, no one can make even an educated guess at what it might be.

Whether it needs a polish or not depends solely on what's causing the white color, and whether it damaged the clear coat, or just left some residue back, that can be removed by a wash.

[Calendyr]

I think it is almost impossible this would be clearcoat failure. It's a 2015 and it's on the lower part of the car, not an area where CCF usuallly occurs.

It might be road film and mud. If it is, I guess I will substitte vinegar for degreaser.

[SWETM]

Strange! But cars driven on heavy road salt roads and then garage kept can almost turn white. A pressure wash does help to get the most of the salt away. I like to help it on the way with a alkaline based degreaser or a citrus based degreaser and a tar remover. A prewash foam like gtechnic w4 citrus foam or gyeon foam instead of the alkaline degreaser works great also. If you where to be claying it as useally an iron remover before the claying. Rinse of the degreasers thoroughly and a ordinary wash get the degreasers neutralised if you are worried about that. I like the thought of useing McKees 37 N-914 as it leave nothing behind or carpro reset or gyeon bathe essence or bathe if doing a 2bm wash. Then you have as clean slate to claying and the clay don't have to much to handle and the chance of less marring.

[Calendyr]

Why would you use an alkaline based cleaner on mineral deposits? If it is calcium or salt, acid is what will remove it.

[SWETM]

It's the tar remover that does solves the road salt contaminants. I use a mineral spirit based tar degreaser to desolve the road salt and tar and the oily road film. So I use it only from the bottom up and to just before the windows begins on the side and back of the car. The alkaline degreaser takes care of that other road grime that often builds up. Then at last the need of aggitations to get that greyish film off with the wash mitt and car soap. The clay removes the imbedded grime and then some imbedded grime is removed when polishing.

The tar degreaser is almost needed to use with every wash where I live. That's is also since it's very common with the use of studded winter tires from december to march. They takes it's wear on the tarmac roads and releases quite the bit of tar. The chemistry behind why the tar degreaser I use is so effective on road salt also I don't know. I have noticed that it's not something that is available in the US but maybe in Canada? One product I have heard about that seems to be effective to road salt contaminants is Whips Wax Road Salt remover. Have seen that Meguiars d130 is alot like the tar degreasers we use in Scandinavia. It's a fast reacting and recommended to apply with a mf cloth and hold on to the spot for 30-45 seconds and wiped off. I think that you could spray it on also and let it dwell for a minute or so and then rinsed of. Do so on a dry car since this don't mix with water. And this is harsh to wax and some sealants but ceramic coatings is very resistant against chemicals and stands up to this.

Meguiar?s Body Solvent, 1 Gallon, removes tar, wax, and stubborn grime from exterior car surfaces. Concentrated cleaner safe on exterior surfaces. (https://www.autogeek.net/mg13001.html)

I think that something like Carpro Tarx would work also just another chemical based degreaser.

[Calendyr]

I have Tar-X, not sure how it would work on Salt, never tried it.

This is gonna be interesting to see tomorrow. My only issue is that I won't have my power washer, need to do a rinseless wash and decontamination. Will be a good test for ONR.

[SWETM]

Do you have any Optimum Power Clean? Thought you might could spray that as a presoak to ONR. The synergy aspect to it. I have no real experience with waterless wash or rinseless wash so there I'm not so much help with. Have you worked with Tarx and just wipe it off before? Or do you have access to rinse with water hose? I think you will be getting it clean with ONR. But if the lsp is clogged up with road film and has lost it's sheeting ability then the Tarx could revive it depending on what kind of lsp is on. It may need more passes to get it clean with only ONR. If it's a ceramic coating and the sheeting properties is done. After the first ONR wash you could apply Tarx to it after that and one more ONR wash after that to the parts that is not sheeting.

[Calendyr]

I have only used Tar-X once and I had access to my power washer. It behaves very much like the previous tar remover I had. I know it will take a few steps to wipe it off, I believe it is pine oil based or something.

[Mike Phillips]

I think it is almost impossible this would be clearcoat failure.

It's a 2015 and it's on the lower part of the car, not an area where CCF usuallly occurs.




I agree. Clearcoat failure almost always affects horizontal panels first, like the hood, roof and trunk lid is this is where the sun beats down and also where water, pollution, contamination lands and dwells over time. All these things work together to destroy the paint.


Also - You've been at this long enough that you have an eye for actual clearcoat failure. For those that read this into the future (because I never type for the present but for the future), here's my artitcle on the topic of clearcoat failure that has one of the BEST pictures I've ever obtained to show exactly what beginning clearcoat failure looks like. This is on a black car and the paint on the hood LOOKS like it's turning white and that's what happens when CLEARcoat paint fails it become opaque or white. As it becomes worse the paint will actually disintegrate and flake off.

The key was to get this picture BEFORE the paint started to disintegrate and flake off.


Here's the link to the article,

Beginning Clearcoat Failure (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/29197-beginning-clearcoat-failure.html)


Here's the picture showing black paint turning white...

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/2600_8_30_06OG003.JPG





Be sure to update this thread and let us know what you found out.


:)

[WillSports3]

Don't forget the possibility that someone before has gotten their hand on the car in the past and might've destroyed what little clearcoat there was through irresponsible wetsanding and it could be clearcoat failure on those places because those were the places that the previous detailer did.

[DetailKitty]

Subscribed... now I wanna know what is going on with this thing!

[Calendyr]

Just came back from the client's location.

So it's hard to say exactly what it is/was.

I started by washing the area with ONR. It didn't do anything (obviously)

I then sprayed with vinegar and let that work for a few minutes while I took all my gear and products out of the car (my van is in storage for winter... officially I am closed... hard to be a workaholic ;)

I washed again with ONR. Did not see any change so I doubt it was/is salt or calcium

I then proceeded to do a tar decontamination with Tar-X. Again sprayed all the pannels and let work for a few minutes. When I wiped again with ONR, microfibers were turning brown, so definatelly a lot of tar there. It did not remove the white aspect of the pannel.

Clayed the pannels with Meguiar's Clay... Pulled out some more tar, it not seem to affect the white aspect but there was a log of contaminants present, very loud at first then dead silent ;)

So I went to compound. Used D300 on a microfiber pad. Used both my GG 3'' and my Rupes 21. Rupes was not of much help because all the pannels we small and with a lot of character lines and curves. So I simply used it to do a D166 Cleaner Wax as a second step after the polishing, doing the actual compounding with the GG only.

So after about 10 passes of compounds, it did not remove all of it but it was a lot less noticable. I think it is damage in the paint from the pannels being peppered from debris from the very large wheels on the GL 350 (Mercedes). It looked like texture in the paint very hard to describe. Since this was an underground garage, I did not even try to take pictures, they never show much because of the very low light level, even if I put about 200W of light on them.

So I spent 3 hours on it, compounded the bottom of each of the 4 doors, lower fenders, and quick compound on the lower half of the doors so there would not been too great a change in texture from the very swirled paint to compounded lower parts. Then I did a quick D166 polishing on all those areas. I would say it looked about 75% better. The white could not longer be seen but if you went really close you could still see texture and a kind of road rash peppering we sometimes see on hoods and front bumpers.

Client was happy with the result. This is a lease and he is bringing it back in 3 weeks. Just wanted it to look decent. The rest of the paint was a swirled mess with a lot of deep scratches. I did not try to sell him on paint correction since the paint was extremelly hard and it would have taken an eternity to correct the whole huge SUV.

First time I see this kind of damage, not sure why that specific SUV has it and others don't seems to get it.

[DetailKitty]

Thanks for the follow up.... so weird this happened to the vehicle. But also may have been from a little neglect on their part? It doesn't sound like the vehicle was well kept.

[itsgn]

Maybe it was clear coat damage from driving on a small section of gravel road, and the small rocks hitting the paint, for years and years, making thousands of tiny little scuffs into the clear coat in a very specific area. Obviously like any scratch or chip, those tiny scuffs or chips all appeared white, but because they were so small and because they were so many of them, they were not distinct, but created that white-ish, textured-like surface, that you've seen. Just my two cents.