Air DA using microfiber pads. Educate me

[Strat]

Just enjoyed watching this video:
YouTube (https://youtu.be/9oS_PxQngPI)

This guy demonstrates how easy and quick he can remove 1500 sanding marks using a microfiber pad.

As a newbie microfiber pads are new to me and wondered if they cut quicker than a wool pad?

I have an air compressor and ordered a used snap on da to do sanding and stupidy didn't realise you could polish with them too as majority use electric polishers.

Anyway as I say the concept of using air da for polishing and microfiber pads are new to me so any words of wisdom greatly appreciated

Thanks.

[itsgn]

Wool pads are designed for rotary buffers, not for dual-action polishers, and do not work properly with the latter. They're just too heavy and fluffy, and practically absorb any and all movements generated of the DA polisher, which when used with them will essentially become just a vibrating (non-)polisher. (They might work with forced rotation DAs, but even there they would deliver sub-optimal results.) However, when used with a rotary, they definitely cut faster, than anything else.

With a regular DA polisher you want to use a microfiber or a hard foam pad to achieve the fastest cut. Microfiber pads have the disadvantage, that they require more frequent cleaning in order to maintain their cut ability, because their fibers tend to stick together otherwise; but they allow you to exert more pressure on the surface. Foam pads on the other side can absorb more dust and product, without clogging up completely, but will transfer less pressure to the surface.

[subyfan]

I'll hop in here to say that you need to ensure that the air DA has a decent throw/orbit and is not a short throw/small orbit finishing sander (shorter throw decreases effectiveness exponentially). FWIW, there are also some pretty awesome air-rotaries on the market as long as you're only looking for a small-ish diameter pad.

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[JustJesus]

Just enjoyed watching this video:

This guy demonstrates how easy and quick he can remove 1500 sanding marks using a microfiber pad.

I had forgotten about that video. Scott eventually moved on to review several electric polishers. The "generic" type long-throws. He's saved people a ton of money (those who didn't want to spend for a Rupes).

I can't say I see many people use air DAs for polishing paint. Surely there are some out there, but I don't see much (any?) posting on here. I *think* I've seen some on YouTube.

MF cutting pads are great. Many many people love 'em, whichever brand they choose to go with.



Wool pads are designed for rotary buffers, not for dual-action polishers, and do not work properly with the latter. They're just too heavy and fluffy...

Perhaps that was once true. Some of today's wool pads (I guess one can get technical and call them "hybrids"?) are designed to work with rotary, DA, and some both.

Here's one example: Lake Country 6 inch Lambswool Cutting Pad (https://www.autogeek.net/lc-6inch-lambswool-cutting.html)

And here's one THIN wool pad that can be used with a DA: Lake Country Thin Foamed Wool Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-thin-foamed-wool-pads.html) - Not very heavy or fluffy ;) :xyxthumbs:



I'll hop in here to say that you need to ensure that the air DA has a decent throw/orbit and is not a short throw/small orbit finishing sander (shorter throw decreases effectiveness exponentially). FWIW, there are also some pretty awesome air-rotaries on the market as long as you're only looking for a small-ish diameter pad.

I wonder, does it really need a decent throw/orbit? I mean, if shorter throw decreases effectiveness, what does a "zero" throw do? I figure that will make it a rotary? I *think* too, that air powered tools tend to spin/oscillate/orbit at much higher speed than their electric counterparts, but I could be wrong. I'm wrong often enough :)

and FWIW, there are also some pretty awesome air-rotaries that have larger diameter pads ;)

[58LesPaul]

What is a decent long throw air orbital polishers for the weekender?


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[subyfan]

I had forgotten about that video. Scott eventually moved on to review several electric polishers. The "generic" type long-throws. He's saved people a ton of money (those who didn't want to spend for a Rupes).

I can't say I see many people use air DAs for polishing paint. Surely there are some out there, but I don't see much (any?) posting on here. I *think* I've seen some on YouTube.

MF cutting pads are great. Many many people love 'em, whichever brand they choose to go with.




Perhaps that was once true. Some of today's wool pads (I guess one can get technical and call them "hybrids"?) are designed to work with rotary, DA, and some both.

Here's one example: Lake Country 6 inch Lambswool Cutting Pad (https://www.autogeek.net/lc-6inch-lambswool-cutting.html)

And here's one THIN wool pad that can be used with a DA: Lake Country Thin Foamed Wool Pads (https://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-thin-foamed-wool-pads.html) - Not very heavy or fluffy ;) :xyxthumbs:




I wonder, does it really need a decent throw/orbit? I mean, if shorter throw decreases effectiveness, what does a "zero" throw do? I figure that will make it a rotary? I *think* too, that air powered tools tend to spin/oscillate/orbit at much higher speed than their electric counterparts, but I could be wrong. I'm wrong often enough :)

and FWIW, there are also some pretty awesome air-rotaries that have larger diameter pads ;)The reason you would typically prefer electric is for the torque. Air pressure can create insane speeds, but you don't get the oomph that comes with an electric motor, resulting in stalling. Example: If you press down with decent force on an air palm sander, you can stall any and all motion entirely. If you do the same with an electric DA, you can stall the rotation, but you'd have to be the Hulk to stop the oscillating motion.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Autogeekonline mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87407)

[itsgn]

I wonder, does it really need a decent throw/orbit? I mean, if shorter throw decreases effectiveness, what does a "zero" throw do? I figure that will make it a rotary?
You can't make a zero throw DA, because the mechanics are different. And because then it won't be a DUAL action polisher anyway, as they're called DUAL action polishers just because they spin around not only one, but two different ax(l)es.

In a rotary buffer the backing plate is directly coupled with and driven by the shaft of the motor. Rotation of the plate is directly induced by the shaft, and has the exact same RPM as the latter.

In a DA the backing plate/pad are spinning free, and their rotation is just a consequence of the orbital circling motion of the asymmetrical (counter)weight they're attached to. The rotation speed (RPM) of the plate/pad is not directly connected to the RPM of the driving motor, and depends on the size of the throw, the size of the pad and how much the pad can "grab" onto the surface. (Except of course forced rotation DAs, in which a cogwheel mechanism around the perimeter is ensuring that the backing plate is rotating at an even speed.)

A larger throw DA is more effective, because a larger orbit induces a faster rotation of the pad (given all the other circumstances, like pad size, friction, etc., are the same) and thus achieves more cut in the same time and with the same RPM of the driving motor, than a smaller throw DA with the same motor and pad would. The downside is that it's easier to make them stall, because the torque resulting from a larger throw is smaller, than that of a smaller throw.

A lot of people mistakenly think that larger throw DAs are more effective, because they cover a larger area, as the pad wanders more off the center. But it's easy to realize, that a difference of a few millimeters (9 vs 16) or even a centimeter (9 vs 21) in the throw are marginal influencers of the area covered, compared to the size of the pad, that's typically 13 or 15 centimeters, or 130-150 millimeters (5-6 inch pads). The pad size is 10x larger than the throw, and 20-30x larger as the difference in between throw sizes.

In reality, and in regard of how much area you will cover, the size of the throw doesn't even matter, because even with a larger throw, the pad will actually work only on the very same area in any particular moment - and the size of that area will be determined solely by the pad's size. However, in the end it will be the pad size combined with the number of rotations of the pad (not that of the driving motor!) that will determine how much cutting is done - not how far away the pad is "thrown off" from the center of the machine, per se.

[JustJesus]

....

crud. Spent like 20 minutes with response to the prior two posts...computer issues...info lost. Oh well.

Have a great day! :xyxthumbs:

[Mike Phillips]

As a newbie microfiber pads are new to me and wondered if they cut quicker than a wool pad?



Kind of applies to oranges in that microfiber pads don't work well on rotary buffers and traditional wool pads don't work well on DA polishers, especially air powered DA polishers.

When working with free spinning air powered orbital sanders the key will be thin pads. Just like an pneumatic sander can rotate and oscillate a thin sanding disc it can also rotate and oscillate a thin microfiber pads. Do a test with anything thick and watch pad rotation bite the dust.




I have an air compressor and ordered a used snap on da to do sanding and stupidy didn't realise you could polish with them too as majority use electric polishers.



Kind of... again... test a THIN pad for polishing against any thick pad for polishing and pay attention to what happens to pad rotation. And although some will argue you don't need pad rotation on a free spinning orbital polisher of any brand to remove defects I don't agree. Pad rotation is a must unless you have one hundred years to stand their and hold the polisher while it vibrates and jiggles the scratches out. :laughing:



Here's something I wrote back in 2010...

Can an air-powered DA Sander be used to polish paint? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/DASanderTest03.jpg



Ha ha... page two of the above thread shows one of the early classes I taught hear at AG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/759/FirstAdvancedClass010.jpg



Keep this thread up to date with what you experience.

Also - how large is your air compressor? Air tools are Air Hogs.


:)