Can't remove micromarring

[ThepanchMX]

Hi Everyone,

Recently i've been doing some detailing jobs at home, mostly for my family and friends and since the "new" ceramic coatings have arrived im trying to finish the paint to a car show finish prior the ceramic coating, however i've been able to remove most deffects, swirls, oxidation, but i'm having a big trouble with micromarring, this is what im doing and the results im getting.

Lest begin for what i own and i can make us of:

Electrical tools:

- GG 6" DA polisher
- Black and decker (yea i know -_-) rotative Polisher

Pads:

- Foam, burgundry, yellow, light pink (the old finish pad for meguiar's) in i guess 6" velcro but in 8-9" the whole pad (the oldest pads)
- Foam yellow meguiar's polishing pad (DFP6) i guess it is.
- Microfiber 6" Cutting pad for DA
- 3M wool pad
- some soft pads (really soft) that came with the GG polisher, i have no clue what brand are they but, they are really soft and i use them to wax or to finish.
- Hand foam pads

MF towels:

A lot of yellow Costco MF towels, some viking towels, i have a very big variety of towels

Compound/polish liquids:

- Meguiars m100, m205, m83, m80, scratch X 2.0, ultimate polish
- 3M hand glaze and polish (step 2 and 3), rubbing compound (the cheap one)


Taking this example a 2016 mini copper (but all the cars i'm doing in metalic or dark colored cars has the same issue), if you take a look with medium light, it's close to perfect ,even in direct sun light you can see it with nice finish, however if you look it closer and in certain angle you can see some very very light swirls, i have checked more than twice and the towel and the removing process of compound or polish is not the problem, I'm pretty sure the problem is here: my technique, lacking a product, or both, most heavy deffects im using DA with MF cutting pad and m100, sometimes m205 again with mf cutting pad.

So, lets begin with some examples:

This looks pretty good right?

60469

Well, let's take a closer look:

60470

60471

This is an example from a A3 Shiraz Red 2016

60472

So, maybe i need a better technique, better products, or both, pls feel free to gimme some advice, i really want to make it perfect.

This video shows the problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beR5HNpVZ64

Thank you.

[MattPersman]

Doesn’t sound like you have any proper polishing pads for your DA

You will want a 5 inch backing plate. Then some 5.5 pads. You will have to do some research or trial to decide what you like

Nothing wrong with ultimate polish or 205 they are almost the same like twins.

You can Try the ultimate compound first then follow with polishing or go with an AIO depending how much correction you are selling or wanting.

But I think pads are your biggest problem to start with for now.

I wouldn’t be using the rotary at this point in your workings either IMO


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[SWETM]

How does it look after the compound stage? It's hard to say from the pictures but it looks like you didn't get all of the swirls from the compounding. Do a test spot and use a good light to see what you can get removed. If it's hazeing it's no problem but the swirls has to be gone. When you are satisfied then on the same spot go with the meguiars yellow pad 6" and m205 or UP and polish it to a fine finish.
I agree on invest in some new pads and maybe a smaller backingplate to get more correction power of the da. Can be that the combo of microfiberpad and m100 is a miss match? Here someone with experience to m100 can put in they toughts. I believe m100 is compound best used with woolpad. This is just a tought. D300 maybe get you the desired cut or another compound that works great with microfiberpads.

[dlc95]

1. What speed were you using on your gg6?
2. How much pressure?
3. How were you priming the pad (if at all)?
4. How many passes?
5. How often were you cleaning your pad?
6. What pads were actually used for each step of the process?

In general, if there are still swirls in the paint, you didn't successfully cut the paint far enough.

It is possible that your cutting process instilled "d/a haze", while still not removing the swirls. Meguiar's never used to recommend the old burgundy pad, because of the hazed finish it could leave on the finish. However, it will work, as long as you have a strong enough follow up step.

M205, and Ultimate Polish are great products, and are fully capable of getting you the finish you're looking for. You need to used them with a pad strong enough to remove the damage left by the first combination.

I wouldn't use anything less aggressive than their yellow polishing pad (in your selection of available options), and probably start with M205. I feel that M205's reduced polishing oil content will leave a truer finish, and be easier to remove prior to coating.

1. I start with 4 pea size drops (on a 5.5" pad. I use one more drop per inch of increase. That means 5 drops on a 6.5" pad, etc). And reload with 3 drops, or as needed for the shape of the section.

2. I'd do one pass on speed 3 (using a gg6), and firm pressure, slow arm speed, wipe off, inspect.

3. If that doesn't look good, move to a new section and do two passes, etc.

4. M205 is designed to work fast, and in my experience, tends to look it's best early on. Because it's abrasives don't break down, it will continue to cut. The abraded paint particles are larger than the abrasive, and could scour the finish, the longer you work the polish - think of an ice pick, and the chunks of ice that small point produces.

5. I normally use blue Buff and Shine pads with M205. However, the best finish (for me) is delivered by a Tangerine Lake Country Hydrotech, which also offers more correction than the Blue B&S foam. I've also had great results removing rotary swirls (post wool pad/m100) with the green Buff and Shine pad (were I start any cutting process with M100, Ultimate Compound, or Menzerna FG400, and the green pad). The green doesn't finish as well compared to the Tangerine, or the Blue.

[ThepanchMX]

Doesn’t sound like you have any proper polishing pads for your DA

You will want a 5 inch backing plate. Then some 5.5 pads. You will have to do some research or trial to decide what you like

Nothing wrong with ultimate polish or 205 they are almost the same like twins.

You can Try the ultimate compound first then follow with polishing or go with an AIO depending how much correction you are selling or wanting.

But I think pads are your biggest problem to start with for now.

I wouldn’t be using the rotary at this point in your workings either IMO


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Do you have any idea what backing plate should i get? im using the bp from factory

[ThepanchMX]

This pictures uploadad over AG makes no justice, but if you check this link https://www.facebook.com/thepanchmx.thepanchmx/media_set?set=a.2018403514840342.1073741837.100000 121409437&type=3, you will find the same pictures with better quality, im pretty sure what im looking there is micromarring

[fightnews]

Doesn’t sound like you have any proper polishing pads for your DA

You will want a 5 inch backing plate. Then some 5.5 pads. You will have to do some research or trial to decide what you like

Nothing wrong with ultimate polish or 205 they are almost the same like twins.

You can Try the ultimate compound first then follow with polishing or go with an AIO depending how much correction you are selling or wanting.

But I think pads are your biggest problem to start with for now.

I wouldn’t be using the rotary at this point in your workings either IMO


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You don't have to have 5.5" pads. 6" pads are fine. 5" pads take longer to do the car and don't give you much better results

Ultimate polish has fillers in it that hide defects

[MattPersman]

Do you have any idea what backing plate should i get? im using the bp from factory

You could go as far as buying the meguiars 5 inch microfiber kit. It comes with a backplate pads and two fluids to work your car.

Griot’s megs and LC backing plates are typically favored here


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[ThepanchMX]

I have not used in any time the rotary this is only GG polisher (in any step, compounding or polishing)

1. For removing deffects im using MF Cut pad with m100 in speed 4-5 depends on how heavy they are, for polishing (and all the next points makes reference to polishing) all speeds between 3-5
2. All combinations but mostly using the "softer" pads, also all arm moving speeds
3. Yes i primed the pad with product, some pea size drops all over the pad, then spread it with my fingers, remove excess with a MF towel.
4. Didn't count them i have spend from 60-to 1.5 seconds (i guess this is the problem)
5. Every panel (and since this is a very small car i guess that was enoguh, im gonna clean it every half panel)
6. MF for deffect removal, and the softer pad for Micro marring, ill try the polishing with the steps you mention.

When you reffer to blue buff what brand is it? mostly the products i own, are from Meguiar's, what do you suggest to get a Micromarring Safe combo? what pads (with brand please) and liquids?

Thank you

[dlc95]

I have not used in any time the rotary this is only GG polisher (in any step, compounding or polishing)

1. For removing deffects im using MF Cut pad with m100 in speed 4-5 depends on how heavy they are, for polishing (and all the next points makes reference to polishing) all speeds between 3-5
2. All combinations but mostly using the "softer" pads, also all arm moving speeds
3. Yes i primed the pad with product, some pea size drops all over the pad, then spread it with my fingers, remove excess with a MF towel.
4. Didn't count them i have spend from 60-to 1.5 seconds (i guess this is the problem)
5. Every panel (and since this is a very small car i guess that was enoguh, im gonna clean it every half panel)
6. MF for deffect removal, and the softer pad for Micro marring, ill try the polishing with the steps you mention.

When you reffer to blue buff what brand is it? mostly the products i own, are from Meguiar's, what do you suggest to get a Micromarring Safe combo? what pads (with brand please) and liquids?

Thank you

The Blue pad is made by Buff and Shine.

I'm an admitted huge fan of Meguiar's products, but sometimes it takes a bit of a technique change to finish out to perfection. I mean very, very rarely. In this instance, I use Menzerna - SHC400 Super Heavy Cut Compound, MC2500 Medium Cut Compound, SF3500 High Performance Polish.

These products really like foam pads, but the 400 also works well with microfiber. Obviously, the 400 is designed to remove very heavy defects. You probably aren't going need anything that heavy. The MC2500 is a medium cut polish. It does an amazing job of removing a lot of defects, and finishing out "wax ready". Probably the most versatile product in my arsenal (next to the Rupes UHS), because it works on a wide variety of paints, and covers a lot of ground from correction to finish. SF3500 is a fine cut finishing polish, and is what I use on the higher end vehicles I do (unless I'm using the Rupes system).

If it were me, I'd keep it simple, and get the Menzerna 400, 2500, and 3500 with Buff and Shine blue Euro Cell cutting pads, and orange Euro Cell polishing pads. You can also pick up the red for applying sealant or wax.

[ThepanchMX]

The Blue pad is made by Buff and Shine.

I'm an admitted huge fan of Meguiar's products, but sometimes it takes a bit of a technique change to finish out to perfection. I mean very, very rarely. In this instance, I use Menzerna - SHC400 Super Heavy Cut Compound, MC2500 Medium Cut Compound, SF3500 High Performance Polish.

These products really like foam pads, but the 400 also works well with microfiber. Obviously, the 400 is designed to remove very heavy defects. You probably aren't going need anything that heavy. The MC2500 is a medium cut polish. It does an amazing job of removing a lot of defects, and finishing out "wax ready". Probably the most versatile product in my arsenal (next to the Rupes UHS), because it works on a wide variety of paints, and covers a lot of ground from correction to finish. SF3500 is a fine cut finishing polish, and is what I use on the higher end vehicles I do (unless I'm using the Rupes system).

If it were me, I'd keep it simple, and get the Menzerna 400, 2500, and 3500 with Buff and Shine blue Euro Cell cutting pads, and orange Euro Cell polishing pads. You can also pick up the red for applying sealant or wax.

How many pads would i buy? consider i detail cars maybe 1 or 2 mid size sedan weekly, also i have seen sf 3800, which one is better for this micromorring thing i'm having trouble.

[ThepanchMX]

well, i did what you told me and this is the best i could get, however if you zoom it, you can see still some pig tails.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22406140_2024556140891746_4148562528303200312_n.jp g?oh=f313b00260e4117c73a1ebaf493bb435&oe=5A724E36

this is a zoom

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22426210_2024579234222770_1780052423595230561_o.jp g?oh=80235adaf08d82e93c4415f237614f11&oe=5A7F342F

What do you suggest, i really really wanna make it flawless before i apply the ceramic coat.

Thanks for all your help

[Rsurfer]

You don't have to have 5.5" pads. 6" pads are fine. 5" pads take longer to do the car and don't give you much better results

Ultimate polish has fillers in it that hide defects

Although I don't use my GG6 much for correction, I did find using a 5" pad resulted in better polishing overall.

Time and time again AG members will recommend using a 5-5.5" pad over a 6" pad.

[TiredOfPaintStains]

Sounds like you have soft paint. From my experience, Meguiars has some really good budget friendly compounds and polishes up to a certain stage. If you're looking for perfection, you may need to try another brand/chemicals. Not to say Meguiars can't achieve your perfection. But, like many say, perfection depends on the eye of the beholder. Looks like what you've done will look better than 80-90% daily drivers out there. At least from the pictures. I would suggest giving Menzerna SF3800 w/ a Meg black foam finishing disc a try. Sonax perfect finish, polishes a bit better than M205 from my experience.

[Rsurfer]

Sounds like you have soft paint. From my experience, Meguiars has some really good budget friendly compounds and polishes up to a certain stage. If you're looking for perfection, you may need to try another brand/chemicals. Not to say Meguiars can't achieve your perfection. But, like many say, perfection depends on the eye of the beholder. Looks like what you've done will look better than 80-90% daily drivers out there. At least from the pictures. I would suggest giving Menzerna SF3800 w/ a Meg black foam finishing disc a try. Sonax perfect finish, polishes a bit better than M205 from my experience.

:iagree:Using a non-diminishing abrasive can be tough on soft paint.