What constitutes a "well-ventilated area" for FK1000P?

[SwedishRider]

I just finished trying FK1000P, and I have mixed impressions of the product. But I'm mostly curious to know what detailers here think a "well-ventilated area" includes. If you read the label of FK1000P, it's got some pretty nasty stuff in it, and has to be treated with care for health and safety. The strong chemical smell was evident from the moment I opened the can. Because of some nearby trees that seem to shed every time I want to detail a car, I usually pull my vehicles into my multiple bay garage for all steps after washing and drying. Use outside is pretty much impossible.

Even though I left the garage doors fully open after pulling in my vehicle, you just couldn't escape that intense smell, and so I began to question if this product can be used in a garage at all. Is a garage with doors open considered "well-ventilated"? I've polished and sealed cars with other products without harsh smells (and without the extreme warnings on the product's label), so I'm not sure I'm interested in continuing use of this product given these circumstances.

[PaulMys]

Maybe use a few fans to evacuate more air?

[OzzieMike]

I've just used FK1000K three times in my garage in the last week. If I'm not here in a week, you'll know a garage isn't ventilated enough. :)

[SwedishRider]

In addition to the smell and ventilation issues, I just wasn't impressed with it. I had MUCH better results from McKee's 37 360. In fairness, I didn't polish before applying FK1000P, and that would have probably yielded better results, but that would have also added another step that I don't need with 360, and the 360's durability and shine has held up very well on the vehicles I've used it on.

I'm not saying FK1000P is a bad product, but given modern AIO sealants like 360, I personally am not seeing enough extra benefit from FK1000P to make it worth the extra steps and ventilation issues.

Maybe others have a different perspective??

[OzzieMike]

Ah....a good example of YMMV, Swedish. I have two new cars I used the FK1000K on (both in my garage, btw). On one of them I used 3D HD Polish+ then topped with FK1000P. On the other car I used McKee's 37 360 in lieu of the HD Polish+ before topping it with the FK1000P. I actually preferred the finish of the 2nd car with 360 over the first car that had the HD Polish+. The FK1000P applied equally well to both cars. (And both are new Fords with the exact same paint color).

I must admit that I'm not even close to a professional detailer, and am more concerned with the protection that's on my vehicles than having a show car shine (although I'm quite pleased with the gloss, which is a tinier bit better on the car with the 360).

Obviously, experiences vary...I can only speak to my (limited) experience.

[FUNX650]

If you read the label of FK1000P,
it's got some pretty nasty stuff
in it, and has to be treated with
care for health and safety.

•IMO: It's not that "nasty".
-This is why:

Don't know if you're familiar with
California, USA's very stringent
environmental rules and regulations, but,
FK1000P is California VOC compliant.
(what's known in some circles as:
"No small accomplishment!")



The strong chemical smell was evident
from the moment I opened the can.

Many, many, many detailing products
contain petroleum distillates.



Is a garage with doors open considered
"well-ventilated"?

I don't ever have my garage doors
open when I detail. (I don't want a
bunch of contaminates coming into
my garage messing up my work.)



I'm not sure I'm interested in
continuing use of this product
given these circumstances.
Some people do have issues with
certain detailing products/chemicals;
while others can tolerate the exact
same detailing products/chemicals
and be trouble-free.

I blame it on:
The nature of the (human) beast.



Bob

[Vegas1]

Prior to last Fall when I coated my car, I used FK1000p as my winter protection here in New England for the last 8 years. Great protection and shine that lasted till at least into May.

I pretty much always detail my car in my garage with the door closed and never had a problem with a strong odor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PaulMys]

Prior to last Fall when I coated my car, I used FK1000p as my winter protection here in New England for the last 8 years. Great protection and shine that lasted till at least into May.

I pretty much always detail my car in my garage with the door closed and never had a problem with a strong odor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone has their own tolerance levels, like Bob mentioned above.

Being a mechanic pretty much my whole life, I have been around gas, diesel, exhaust fumes, solvents, you name it. None of it has ever bothered me.

Is this a good thing? I'm betting it isn't health-wise. But it's just part of the job.

But some people can tolerate it, and some can't.

[SwedishRider]

•IMO: It's not that "nasty".
-This is why:

Don't know if you're familiar with
California, USA's very stringent
environmental rules and regulations, but,
FK1000P is California VOC compliant.
(what's known in some circles as:
"No small accomplishment!")

I'm certainly not looking to get into an argument, but I attached two pics of the warnings on the label of FK1000P. It says:
Harmful if inhaled. Causes damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure.

5937959380

It goes on to say not to breathe the fumes, and to use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area.

I did look at my McKee's 360 bottle, and while it does have the usual cautions, it doesn't have the same level of warning that is on the FK1000P. And it's also California VOC compliant.

I won't give up on it just yet- I actually like the idea of using it to top my M37 360 for very long durability and protection... but I may also try to use fans or something to get some air flow in my garage when working with it.

[SwedishRider]

On the other car I used McKee's 37 360 in lieu of the HD Polish+ before topping it with the FK1000P. I actually preferred the finish of the 2nd car with 360 over the first car that had the HD Polish+. The FK1000P applied equally well to both cars. (And both are new Fords with the exact same paint color).

How long did you wait to allow the 360 to cure before topping with the FK1000P? Using FK1000P as a top to 360 sounds very appealing. I didn't really like the results I got with it (without polishing), but as a top to 360, I would think that would give incredible durability and gloss since the 360 takes car of surface cleaning and polishing.

Anything else you do when using 360 and FK1000P together?

[FUNX650]

I did look at my McKee's 360 bottle,
and while it does have the usual cautions,
it doesn't have the same level of warning
that is on the FK1000P. And it's also
California VOC compliant.

I rely more on the Safety & Health
information that's contained within
detailing-products' SDS sheets than
what's on their bottles' labels.


Finish Kare's 1000P's SDS is easily
obtained; would you happen to have
the SDS document(s) for McKee's 360
that you can share? TIA.


Bob

[Route246]

I'm certainly not looking to get into an argument, but I attached two pics of the warnings on the label of FK1000P. It says:

5937959380

It goes on to say not to breathe the fumes, and to use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area.

I did look at my McKee's 360 bottle, and while it does have the usual cautions, it doesn't have the same level of warning that is on the FK1000P. And it's also California VOC compliant.

I won't give up on it just yet- I actually like the idea of using it to top my M37 360 for very long durability and protection... but I may also try to use fans or something to get some air flow in my garage when working with it.

Most of these chemical products have Safety Data Sheets published and available to the public.

If you compare FK1000P to 476S the difference is significant in terms of safety warnings.

FK1000P: https://rawmaterialsuppliers.com/wp-content/uploads/FK-1000P-Hi-Low-Paste-Wax_SDS.pdf?afd0e0

476S: https://cdn.karfa.is/files/1210/L476sSuperDoublecoatSDS1.pdf

FK1000P lists solvent naphtha which is a chemical mixture in quantity of 5%-65%.

From the FK1000P safety data sheet:
TOXICITY DATA:
1,2,4-trimethylbenzene 95-63-6 LC50 Inhalation – Rat 2900 ppm
Cumene 98-82-8 LD50 Oral – Rat 2,260 mg/kg
Xylene 1330-20-7 LD50 Oral – Rat 2,100 mg/kgSUSPECTED CANCER AGENT: Components of this product are listed by agencies tracking the carcinogenic potential of
chemical compounds:
Naphtha CAS# 8030-30-6 (contains Benzene)
IARC: 1 - Group 1: Carcinogenic to humans (Benzene)
NTP: Known to be human carcinogen (Benzene)
Cumene CAS# 98-82-8
IARC: 2B - Group 2B: Possibly Carcinogenic to humans (Cumene)
IRRITANCY OF PRODUCT: This product may be irritating to eyes and skin.
SENSITIZATION TO THE PRODUCT: None known
REPRODUCTIVE TOXICITY INFORMATION: Listed below is information concerning the effects of this product and its
components on the human reproductive system.
Mutagenicity: Components of this product are reported to produce mutagenic effects in humans.
Embryotoxicity: The components of this product are not reported to produce embryotoxic effects in humans.
Teratogenicity: The components of this product are not reported to produce teratogenic effects in humans.
Reproductive Toxicity: The components of this product are reported to produce reproductive effects in humans.

From the 476S data sheet
Acute toxicity
No data available
Skin corrosion/irritation
Rabbit: no skin irritation 4 hr
Serious eye damage/irritation: no eye irritation
Respiratory or skin sensitization
Draize Test - Guinea pig: does not cause skin sensitization
Germ cell mutagenicity
Reverse mutation assay - S. typhimurium: negative
Carcinogenicity IARC Group 3, not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans.
NTP No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a known or anticipated carcinogen.
OSHA No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identified as a known or anticipated carcinogen.
Reproductive toxicity . No data available
Specific target organ toxicity, single exposure
No data available
Specific target organ toxicity, repeated exposure
No data available


Basically, your nose is a pretty good leading indicator of a potential problem. The safety data sheet is there to confirm or resolve any suspicions about what your nose is telling you. When I see the word, "benzene" I tend to take it very seriously.

[FUNX650]

When I see the word, "benzene"
I tend to take it very seriously.
Your brow must really be furrowed,
whenever you must pump gasoline! :eek:


Bob

[Route246]

Your brow must really be furrowed,
whenever you must pump gasoline! :eek:


Bob

In CA there are mandatory vapor recovery systems on all gas pumps. I haven't smelled gasoline vapors in decades since they started mandating those.

[SwedishRider]

Wow, the difference between the FK1000P and the Collinite MSDSs that you posted are significant. I'll have to look into that product and see if it's a good fit to top my 360 without all the harsh effects of the FK1000P. Have you used 476S? Any thoughts on it?