Swirl marks and bug etchings in a 2014 black BMW 328d

[steve1123]

Hello,

I recently purchased a vehicle with some paint problems and I'm looking for some advice on how to restore the vehicle's showroom shine.

The vehicle: Metallic Black 2014 BMW 328d

The Problem: 1) Swirl marks all over the vehicle 2) Many marks on the hood of the vehicle from bugs that weren't removed quickly enough (looks to have etched into the paint).

I watched the 3 part video series on how to remove swirl marks with the PC 7424XP along with Wolfgang's Total Swirl Remover 3.0.

I have a few questions:
1) The PC 7424XP, Total Swirl Remover 3.0, and Finishing Glaze 3.0 look to be on my shopping list. I am just wondering if the Deep Gloss Paint Sealant is the way to go. Only hesitating because of the long drying period that this product requires. I will certainly be doing this work in the shade but I might not have a place to do this indoors, so I'm concerned about dust or other contaminates falling onto the car while the product dries, then creating more scratches when I go to remove the product.
2) I was leaning towards this kit (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-porter-cable-swirl-remover.html), but am hesitating due to the reason above. I saw this post (http://www.autogeek.net/carwax.html) with a black BMW 5 series which you used Pinnacle Black Label Synergy. That product is outside of my price range, but I am wondering if there's a faster drying alternative, or if I should just stick with the Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant? Is is worth while considering products specifically made for black paint or, again, stick with the Wolfgang Sealant?
4) I am hoping that the kit in question 2 would also take care of the bug etchings as well?
5) If I were to pickup a couple of extra microfiber towels other than the ones included in the kit, would you have any suggestions? There seems to be many options to choose from.
6) I am assuming that the pads that come in the kit will be sufficient to do the entire vehicle, and just use a stiff bristled brush from time to time to remove excess built-up/dried product?
7) I've read that some people decide to apply a layer of wax after/on top of a synthetic sealant for extra shine. Do you have any recommendations? One that is budget-friendly but will still help to deliver that wet/glossy look? Maybe the Pinnacle Souveran (http://www.autogeek.net/pinsouvwax.html) or the Pinnacle Signature Series II (http://www.autogeek.net/pisisepawax.html)?

Thank-you kindly in advance for your time and assistance.

Regards,
Steve

[custmsprty]

That kit is excellent. I have all those WG products and have used them with great results. WG 3.0 Sealant is excellent too. Keep this in mind, I'd be more concerned about polishing outside and dust than applying a sealant outside and removing it. I've done the latter for decades with no issues.

On the Souveran or Sig II or for that matter most nubas, they look great but don't last long and most importantly they creat static and thus are dust magnets. Keep that in mind on a black car. I take my garage queen out and you won't believe the amount of road dust after a 40-50 mile drive.

Black as they say is a full time job, that's why all our new cars are white.

As for the bug "etchings" nothing you can really do about those. We have love bugs in Florida and they etch paint in a matter of days and it's ruined the clear coat forever.

[adamgayton81]

I have a 14 black Sapphire Metallic 5 series. I used a Rupes 21 with 5 Uro Fiber pads and HD Speed. Did great and then topped with Jet seal. I highly recommend it as I've had great luck on numerous vehicles with it...especially German black cars like ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve1123]

Thank-you both for your replies.

Good hear the positive feedback on the WG products. I also didn't think about the dust magnet properties of carnauba waxes. I shall keep that in mind. It's unfortunate to hear about the bug etchings though. I guess I'll have to settle for swirl mark removal for the time being.

[Rsurfer]

I would rethink about getting the Porter Cable and getting the Griot 6" instead. More power and lifetime warranty, that in it self is a good reason to choose the Griot over the Porter Cable.

[VISITOR]

skip the PCXP and get the GG6 instead...

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2017-new-car-detailing-how-article-mike-phillips/111332-here-s-what-you-need-get-into-machine-polishing-recommendations-beginner-mike-phillips.html

[Mike Phillips]

Hello,

I recently purchased a vehicle with some paint problems and I'm looking for some advice on how to restore the vehicle's showroom shine.

The vehicle: Metallic Black 2014 BMW 328d



Hi Steve,

Welcome to the AGO forum... :welcome:





The Problem: 1) Swirl marks all over the vehicle 2) Many marks on the hood of the vehicle from bugs that weren't removed quickly enough (looks to have etched into the paint).

I watched the 3 part video series on how to remove swirl marks with the PC 7424XP along with Wolfgang's Total Swirl Remover 3.0.

I have a few questions:

1) The PC 7424XP, Total Swirl Remover 3.0, and Finishing Glaze 3.0 look to be on my shopping list. I am just wondering if the Deep Gloss Paint Sealant is the way to go. Only hesitating because of the long drying period that this product requires. I will certainly be doing this work in the shade but I might not have a place to do this indoors, so I'm concerned about dust or other contaminates falling onto the car while the product dries, then creating more scratches when I go to remove the product.



The drying time recommended for this product is actually the "Perfect World" drying time for all sealants. The big picture is after apply any company's Carnauba Wax or Synthetic Paint Sealant, in a perfect world you don't want the fresh application to get wet or wash the car or even wipe the car with a spray detailer for a window-of-time of 24 hours and that's to give whatever magical process some chemist designed to have the time to do it's thing.

If you don't live in a perfect world then apply the sealant, wait about 15 minutes, wipe if off and move forward with life. Instead of wishing to live in a perfect world, wash the car and re-apply the sealant on a regular basis and your BLACK BMW will look like a million bucks an all your friends, family and co-workers will think you're a car detailing expert.








2) I was leaning towards this kit (http://www.autogeek.net/wolfgang-porter-cable-swirl-remover.html), but am hesitating due to the reason above. I saw this post (http://www.autogeek.net/carwax.html) with a black BMW 5 series which you used Pinnacle Black Label Synergy. That product is outside of my price range, but I am wondering if there's a faster drying alternative, or if I should just stick with the Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant? Is is worth while considering products specifically made for black paint or, again, stick with the Wolfgang Sealant?




You're talking about this project that I did a few years ago...

2014 BMW 535i - Removing Dealership Holograms, Swirls and Scratches (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/81125-2014-bmw-535i-removing-dealership-holograms-swirls-scratches.html)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=76992

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=76994

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77001

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77011

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77018

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77019

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77025



Here's Milind and me....

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77035


That was an epic detailer and a fairly thorough write-up that you can follow to fix your car's paint.






4) I am hoping that the kit in question 2 would also take care of the bug etchings as well?



Here's what I would recommend....

Griot's Garage 6" DA polisher
Wolfgang Uber Compound
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze <-- not a glaze but a fine cut polish. The word glaze means nothing in our industry.
Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0


Modifications

The Griot's comes with a 6" DA Backing Plate. I've sent Jeff Brown and e-mail asking him if there was anyway Griot's could package this tool


A: With a 5" backing plate

B: No backing plate



The reason why is with a 6" backing plate you have to turn and churn a 6.5" foam pad and that's just a tick too large for most car detailing as the panels on most cars or the areas of paint between an edge and a raised body line is thinner than 6.5" and this means you end up buffing on edges and raised body lines and this is called a BAD PRACTICE. A GOOD BEST PRACTICE is to NOT buff on edges, corners and raised body lines.

So every time I type out a reply like this I have to type the above banter about body panel design and the convince the person NEW to machine polishing to not only buy the polisher but then buy a DIFFERENT backing plate than the one included in the box so they can turn and churn 5.5" pads which fit most new cars better and also make better use of the power provided by ALL simple DA polishers like the Griot's, Porter Cable and Meguiar's MT300 (all of these are free spinning 8mm orbit stroke length polishers that pretty much work exactly the same except the Griot's has the most power and best warranty)


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips (http://tinyurl.com/y736nudd)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/Griots_Polisher.jpg



Anyway....

Get the Griot's polisher but then get a 5" backing plate and then get 5.5" foam buffing pads.


Compounding
To compound a car, in a PERFECT WORLD you want one pad per panel. A 2-door car has 9 body panels. So get 9 foam cutting pads or if you want to punish your pads get 6 foam cutting pads and you'll find as you work around the car that it's true, it's faster and you're more effective when you can switch to a CLEAN DRY foam pad when moving to a new panel. I know I've typed tons about this all over this forum so I'm not going to drone on and on about it except to say to let your budget be your guide and remember - your time is worth something.

Polishing
For the polishing step you need less pads. The grunt work or heavy lifting is always the compounding step. So for the polishing step you can get away with 4-5 pads and do a GREAT job.

Machine waxing
I also have a number of articles on tis topic and actually a brand new one that I'll share below. For machine applying the Deep Gloss Paint Sealant you only need one pad.

Is there a benefit to machine applying a wax or sealant versus applying by hand? (http://tinyurl.com/ybg35mbr)

High speed machine waxing - Kissing the Finish Technique by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/109261-high-speed-machine-waxing-kissing-finish-technique-mike-phillips.html) <-- this one is for you Mark






5) If I were to pickup a couple of extra microfiber towels other than the ones included in the kit, would you have any suggestions? There seems to be many options to choose from.




Many of the towels we sell on the AG store have the option to be purchased as a 12-pack. I'd recommend this then read my article below.

A: Get a DEDICATED laundry hamper for the garage. Get one with solid sides, not one with holes or openings. You don't want air-borne dirt to get into the hamper. You can actually use anything as long as it's clean inside. You need a place to put dirty towels to keep them from becoming contaminated so you get the most life out of our towels and reduce the risk of scratching the BLACK paint.

It takes HOURS to polish paint to perfection. It takes seconds to scratch it with a towel that has ONE TINY ABRASIVE PARTICLE lodged into the weave of the towel.


B: Get a dedicated microfiber cleaner and use this to wash your towels. What this does is clean your towels while maintain their softness. Use the wrong cleaner and your soft towels become crunchy.


C: Get a plastic bin with a lid to store your clean towels until you need them.


Everything above is all about making an investment in some quality towels and then protecting them from becoming contaminated so when you go to use them you don't scratch the paint on your BMW.

Make sense?

Read this article,

How, why & when to inspect your microfiber towels when detailing cars (http://tinyurl.com/ya8l4k4s)









6) I am assuming that the pads that come in the kit will be sufficient to do the entire vehicle, and just use a stiff bristled brush from time to time to remove excess built-up/dried product?



Nope. All the kits have "introductory" pads. That is you are introduced to the world of machine polishing. After you get a kit and then go out into the garage and start buffing you'll find out real fast that foam absorbs liquid and your one compounding pad becomes soggy and stops working like it did when it was dry. Then you'll wish you had more pads but there's really no place in town to get good pads in the right size for your backing plate so you'll be frustrated.

If Autogeek or any company created "kits" that had all the buffing pads you need to correctly buff out a swirled out car the price point would be to high and it would scare people away. That's normal. So kits introduce you to the world of machine polishing and you LOVE The results you get when you start but then as a normal progression of your education you learn you need more pads.

I reduced or flattened out your learning curve by typing out the above in an honest effort to help you just like I helped Milind to buff out his BMW. (this is what I've now done for a lifetime)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=77035








7) I've read that some people decide to apply a layer of wax after/on top of a synthetic sealant for extra shine.

Do you have any recommendations? One that is budget-friendly but will still help to deliver that wet/glossy look? Maybe the Pinnacle Souveran (http://www.autogeek.net/pinsouvwax.html) or the Pinnacle Signature Series II (http://www.autogeek.net/pisisepawax.html)?




Here's my article on this topic...

Topping - Definition - How to Top also called Topping (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/40089-topping-definition-how-top-also-called-topping.html)


I don't have anything against the practice and do it at least once and make up your own mind.

Me? I do a GREAT job of applying a single application of whatever LSP I'm using and then after wiping it off I stick a fork in the project and call it done.








Thank-you kindly in advance for your time and assistance.

Regards,
Steve


Hope the above helps. Hope it doesn't scare you away from tackling this project.

Once you do it you'll be very happy with the results and even better you'll know what to do the rest of your life for all your cars. You'll also probably end up educating your circle of influence on how to do all this stuff and likely send your friends to Autogeek and hopefully this forum.

Try asking your exact same questions on a Facebook group and then compare the answers you get, the pictures, the extra links to more information, the videos, etc in a way that's easy to read and most important understand, and compare it to the above.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Sit back, relax and watch this video. This video will explain all the concepts and techniques you need to know in order to safely and correctly buff uot your car.

The video shows the Porter Cable 7424XP but the Griot's 6" DA is basically a more powerful version of the Porter Cable tool.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulWXODgg8V4



Then read these articles. I'd highly recommend reading the first one before starting and avoid all the common mistakes most people make when first starting out by getting HEAD KNOWLEDGE FIRST.



DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)


Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


Downward Pressure....What is "Moderate"? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/tips-techniques-how-articles-interacting-discussion-forums/80364-downward-pressure-what-moderate.html) --> another guy started this thread by the actual "how-to" information is something I wrote back in 2004 --> original source

How to divide larger body panels into smaller sections for machine buffing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74401-how-divide-larger-body-panels-into-smaller-sections-machine-buffing.html)


How To Do a Test Spot (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/50162-how-do-test-spot.html)





:)

[brettS4]

I'd definitely go with Mike's suggestions. I've had a black german car and currently own both the PC7424 and GG6. There's nothing wrong with the Porter Cable, but the GG6 gets the job done quicker/easier.

It's definitely true that carnauba wax is a dust magnet, but I'd still use it as a topper on black every chance I got. It just looks incredible. Unfortunately, that glow only lasts a week or two. For prolonged use, WGDGPS is the way to go. You could always top it with a wax when you want it to really shine. There is no better choice for black paint than Pinnacle Souveran. If you want to save a few dollars, SSII is very good and most (non-detailing) people wouldn't notice the difference.

Personally, I'd skip the kit and choice the exact items I want. I'd go with:

GG6
5" vented backing plate (do not skip this)
LC ThinPro 5.5" pad 6-pack
WG Uber Compound
WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant

Optional:
WG Finishing Glaze (you might not need this but it's good to have)
Pinnacle Souveran or other wax (for some extra depth)

Of course you'll need MF towels, wash buckets, clay or nanoskin, etc

[steve1123]

Thank-you very much for the very thorough responses! I'll be going through and educating myself as best I can before attempting this paint correction.

I'll heed the advice of favoring the GG6 over the PC 7424XP, and take all the articles and tips into consideration.

So by the sounds of it, I'll need a more aggressive product for this job, so skip the WG Swirl Remover 3.0 and get the WG Uber Compound and start with the orange 5.5" cutting pads coupled with the 5" backing plate. Then move onto a less aggressive pad to use with the WG Finishing Glaze, then the WG DG Sealant with a pad that has no cut.

I'll go through the articles and videos and check back here if I have any other questions.

Thanks again Mike and everyone for offering your advice. I'm looking forward to tacking this project in the near future. I'll report back here with the results.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Hi, Welcome to AutoGeekOnline!

Plenty of great advice supplied thus far. You will do well with the guidance.

The Wolfgang product line is fantastic and will work very well with your black BMW. Here is a great article on using the Wolfgang products.
https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2009-2016-how-articles-mike-phillips/74198-wolfgang-four.html

Dont hesitate to ask questions along the way. BTW, I have a Jet Black 07 and Jet Black 11.


So by the sounds of it, I'll need a more aggressive product for this job, so skip the WG Swirl Remover 3.0 and get the WG Uber Compound and start with the orange 5.5" cutting pads coupled with the 5" backing plate. Then move onto a less aggressive pad to use with the WG Finishing Glaze, then the WG DG Sealant with a pad that has no cut.

I'll report back here with the results.

Just remember to perform a test spot. But most likely yes Uber with an orange pad and FG with a white pad. Finish off with the Sealant on a black or red pad.

[steve1123]

Plenty of good info indeed! Lots to go through while I'm waiting for the supplies to arrive.

The Wolfgang Four, looks like a winning combination! Thanks for the link.

Ok duly noted regarding the process. I'll probably begin by doing a test spot with Uber/orange pad, FG/white pad, then the Sealant/Black or red pad.

[steve1123]

I finally had a chance to begin working on my car's paint correction, and I fear I may have run into some trouble...

First of all, I had an unfortunate event happen to my ride. Somebody scraped it in a parking lot and drove off. Luckily, there was security camera footage and I was able to follow-up with the police. In any case, while my car was in the shop, the folks there worked on the hood of my vehicle and removed most of the bug etchings. That's the good news. However, they left some buffer trails. No worries I thought, I'm armed with the excellent info from this forum and my arsenal of recently delivered tools. I felt ready to tackle the job!

I took an afternoon, got my GG6 out with the 5" vented backing plate and accompanying pads (orange/white/red) and conditioning brush, along with my bottles of Wolfgang Uber Compound, Finishing Glaze, and DGPS, and got to work. My test spot looked phenomenal on the trunk lid. The Compound, Glaze, and DGPS did a superior job! After I did the trunk lid, roof, and hood, I had to call it a day. I put the car cover on it and then, without fail, it poured rain for the next two days. When I went to remove the car cover afterwards, I noticed some areas of the hood were wet, which was to be expected I suppose. I then discovered that there is a discoloration in a small section of my hood. Looks milky white compared to the rest of the panel. Thinking it may just be a Type 1 water spot, I tried using some compound/glaze on the area to no avail.

Unfortunately, I fear I may have failed to use the least aggressive product first when it came to my hood. Thinking about it afterwards, I bet the shop used a very aggressive abrasive on the hood, and then I came in and used the Uber Compound on top of that... So I think I may have burned through my clear coat.

Here are a couple of pictures. Maybe a little hard to see, but it's there. It's strange that it's only in one spot though. I used the same technique over the entire hood.

59952

59953

What are your thoughts?