Griots Orange 6.5" versus Black 6.5"

[Velozzity]

Ok so basically I am totally new to all this considering I just recently purchased my first newish car in many years and wanted to maintain the appearance. I recently bought (but have not picked up yet) a Griots 6" DA kit that comes with a 6.5" orange pad and a trial bottle of All in one sealant. Question is, on cars with relatively great paint condition, are the orange griots pads ok for use as a polish pad (with something like Meguiars ultimate polish etc) to be used every 3-6 months (still deciding how often this can really be done without screwing up the clear) or should I be aiming at the black pads, assuming I was to keep with the griots line. Reason is I feel as if I won't be able to finish the car with the one step with just the pad that comes with it and If it is too abrasive to be used more than once or twice every few years or just as a spot removal tool for more severe scratches, I have no business buying more orange pads. However the store I bought the DA from only stocks the Orange and the Red Pad, and I'm confused as If i should hold off and only use the orange pad for spot correction and order some Black (or white/Green LC pads) Griots or will buying like 2 more orange pads (for a total of 3) and then like 1 red pad be sufficient for doing only my personal car (2015 Honda Civic) for the forseeable future. I do have Ultimate compound for the harder corrections, but more worried about what to use for polish and finish step, pad wise.

[dlc95]

I like to have a small variety of cutting, polishing, and finishing pads.

At minimum I like four cutting and polishing each, and two finishing.

Typically orange cutting, white polishing, and black finishing from Lake Country is the gold standard.

[Velozzity]

So probably tomorrow I when I go to pick up my Da at Advance (bought it with a 50 dollar off coupon, for total of $109 for Da, Orange Pad, and 8 ounce bottle of one step sealant) I will pick up another orange pad and a red pad. I feel If i clean the orange pad midway through using the all in one I can get by with 2, and later will relegate them to only scratch or defect repair and not for the entire vehicle. I guess I will pick up one of the pick your own 6 pack and get 3 white and 3 black pads to start and If i feel they are not enough order more. The car is small and I think 3 each can get me by at least for the white and black ones. This is the first DA I have owned and when I purchased the vehicle I got my wax spreader out of storage and its permanently attached foam pad fell apart, so I had to replace it and ended up focusing on the griots from reading the forums here. It just seemed as If from the videos on Griots website that the average non pro user could get by with just getting a few orange pads and a few red ones and didn't really need the black one unless it was a special case hence the reason I asked about it.

[cleanmycorolla]

You're going to need more than 3 pads to do your car. You don't need black pads. They're mildly useless. Also I hope you do some more prep before you polish. Like clay, decon, etc...

[dlc95]

The orange griot's pads work for both compounding and polishing. Once they get wet with product, they soften up quite a bit, and thus finish well.

If you can, clean your pad after every section you polish, with some sort of soft nylon brush. You may also want to use a spare towel to rub across the face of the pad to soak up excess moisture as well.

If you do the six pack, consider two orange, two white, and two black.

[Mike Phillips]

Just a friendly tip....

Hit the [Enter] key or return key after a sentence or two and put some space between sentences instead of typing out large chunks of text.

Like this.


It makes it easier for the human eye to track from the end of one sentence to the beginning of the next sentence.

Making your text easier to read will get more people to read it. Making your text hard to read will make people either scan it or click away.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Example

What you wrote...



Ok so basically I am totally new to all this considering I just recently purchased my first newish car in many years and wanted to maintain the appearance. I recently bought (but have not picked up yet) a Griots 6" DA kit that comes with a 6.5" orange pad and a trial bottle of All in one sealant. Question is, on cars with relatively great paint condition, are the orange griots pads ok for use as a polish pad (with something like Meguiars ultimate polish etc) to be used every 3-6 months (still deciding how often this can really be done without screwing up the clear) or should I be aiming at the black pads, assuming I was to keep with the griots line. Reason is I feel as if I won't be able to finish the car with the one step with just the pad that comes with it and If it is too abrasive to be used more than once or twice every few years or just as a spot removal tool for more severe scratches, I have no business buying more orange pads. However the store I bought the DA from only stocks the Orange and the Red Pad, and I'm confused as If i should hold off and only use the orange pad for spot correction and order some Black (or white/Green LC pads) Griots or will buying like 2 more orange pads (for a total of 3) and then like 1 red pad be sufficient for doing only my personal car (2015 Honda Civic) for the forseeable future. I do have Ultimate compound for the harder corrections, but more worried about what to use for polish and finish step, pad wise.


Broke up...




Ok so basically I am totally new to all this considering I just recently purchased my first newish car in many years and wanted to maintain the appearance. I recently bought (but have not picked up yet) a Griots 6" DA kit that comes with a 6.5" orange pad and a trial bottle of All in one sealant.

Question is, on cars with relatively great paint condition, are the orange griots pads ok for use as a polish pad (with something like Meguiars ultimate polish etc) to be used every 3-6 months (still deciding how often this can really be done without screwing up the clear) or should I be aiming at the black pads, assuming I was to keep with the griots line.

Reason is I feel as if I won't be able to finish the car with the one step with just the pad that comes with it and If it is too abrasive to be used more than once or twice every few years or just as a spot removal tool for more severe scratches, I have no business buying more orange pads.

However the store I bought the DA from only stocks the Orange and the Red Pad, and I'm confused as If i should hold off and only use the orange pad for spot correction and order some Black (or white/Green LC pads) Griots or will buying like 2 more orange pads (for a total of 3) and then like 1 red pad be sufficient for doing only my personal car (2015 Honda Civic) for the forseeable future.

I do have Ultimate compound for the harder corrections, but more worried about what to use for polish and finish step, pad wise.




Again... just a friendly tip from someone that types and reads a lot.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

The answer to your questions are,

First - After washing and drying your car, look at the paint in bright overhead sun to inspect for swirls and scratches. If you see swirls and scratches, then you're going to need the orange pad. I'm pretty sure Griot's refers to this as a "polishing" pad.

Their orange pad is in-between cutting and finishing.

Order of aggressiveness with the pads listed first being most aggressive would be,

Cutting
Polishing
Finishing
Waxing


And, there is no universal color code system to pads. Each manufacture uses their own color code system.


I would also do the baggie test to see if your paint needs to be clayed or not. Do this after washing and drying.


Then a general rule of thumb for either using a compound and a foam cutting or foam polishing pad to correct the paint would be one pad per panel. As you work around the car your foam pad will get soggy with the product that saturates into it.

Wet soggy pads don't work well. Dry clean pads work great.


A 2-door passenger car has 9 panels. So in a perfect world, you would want 9 pads.

If you were to use a pad for 2 panels, then you would need 4 to 5 pads.


Let your budget and the value of your time be your guide.


:)

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a couple of articles with info or how to do stuff...


How many pads do I need to buff out my car? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/88109-how-many-pads-do-i-need-buff-out-my-car.html)

The Baggie Test - How to inspect for above surface bonded contaminants (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/27967-baggie-test-how-inspect-above-surface-bonded-contaminants.html)



:)

[Mike Phillips]

I shared the below yesterday in two threads, same info applies to where you're at in the detailing world.


A few more tips...



With the PC or Porter Cable you really need to be on the 6.0 speed setting to maintain pad rotation and it's only when the pad is rotation on a free spinning orbital polisher that you're are removing any substantial paint or in other words removing defects although there's a handful of detailing gurus in the world that claim jiggling or vibrating only will remove defects. :laughing:


Read this and watch the short video...

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-car-garage-how-videos/49489-video-mark-your-backing-plate-make-easy-see-pad-rotation.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1423/MarkYourBackingPlate01.jpg

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM8PnDooZP8



Then read this, it will share the most common mistakes people make AND how to remedy them...

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html)



Then watch this video, it will show you step-by-step what to do and how to do it...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulWXODgg8V4


And for more and more info on how to use a simple or entry level polisher check out these...



There's a LOT of machine polishing articles here,


DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/questions-about-porter-cable-7424xp-7424-7336-griot-s-meguiar-s-dual-action-polishers/38399-da-polisher-articles-help-newbies-machine-polishing.html)



Machine wax since you already have the machine... wrote this one just last week...


Is there a benefit to machine applying a wax or sealant versus applying by hand? (http://tinyurl.com/ybg35mbr)


This one shows you how...

High speed machine waxing - Kissing the Finish Technique by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/109261-high-speed-machine-waxing-kissing-finish-technique-mike-phillips.html)




:buffing:

[Velozzity]

Thanks for all the replies,

I guess I was sorta overwhelmed with all the new product knowledge and trying to get by on as little as possible to start (as in number off pads) I guess my biggest question is on a newish car in decent to great condition, can I just get by with the orange pads (assuming that speed of the da and the product used with it determines the cut) or should I be aiming at multiple types, like someone pointed out, the black griots pad was almost useless.

e.g. can I use the orange pad (which I can buy as many as I want today versus ordering online and paying shipping) for both something like compound for things that polish wont take out, and also as the last step for just polish before applying wax with the red pad, or will over time these orange pads prove to be too abrasive and wear out the paint abnormally fast.

The product description for the Black Griots Pad (which I assume would line up with the white/green LC pad) says for dark cars and delicate paint, seems less versatile and more of a stop gap between the orange and red pads for specific use scenarios, not a normal item which people will buy bunches of as a normal step to doing a 3 step process. I'm trying to get enough pads today when I pick up the da to actually do the one step but feel as If i buy 3 or 4 orange pads just to use it one time while I order more online I have unnecessarily wasted money if said orange pads are only useful for compounding (which I will not need much of unless I abuse the paint surface) etc and not finish polishing

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for all the replies,



We have great forum members and a friendly forum environment... :)








I guess I was sorta overwhelmed with all the new product knowledge and trying to get by on as little as possible to start (as in number off pads)

I guess my biggest question is on a newish car in decent to great condition, can I just get by with the orange pads (assuming that speed of the da and the product used with it determines the cut) or should I be aiming at multiple types, like someone pointed out, the black griots pad was almost useless.



Great questions here's the answer...

Probably.

You won't know what you can do until you do a Test Spot.

In the video I shared, it goes over how to do a test spot and then inspect your results, when you have a few minutes, watch the video, it's very good with easy to understand information.


My guess is, with only light or shallow scratching, you can probably buff out the entire car with one or a few foam polishing pads and probably the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. Just clean your pad often after buffing out sections of paint.


I explain how to buff out a car in the video I shared and the below is also shared in the video...


The Definition of a Section Pass by Mike Phillips (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/109747-definition-section-pass-mike-phillips.html)



The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.


How many section passes to make to one area of paint
In most cases if you're removing any substantial below surface defects you're going to make 6-8 section passes to the section you’re working before you either feel comfortable you've removed the defects or you're at the end of the buffing cycle for the product you're using.


Years ago, when trying to figure out how to teach a person how to buff out a car using a keyboard I came up with the term Section Pass or Section Passes.

A section pass or passes is the way you move a polisher to buff out a section of paint. You can't buff out entire panels at a time as paint is too hard and many panels are too large to actually buff out an entire panel at one time. So you take larger panels and divide them up into smaller section like you see in this picture.

You divide large panels into smaller sections and then buff one section at a time. For correction work you'll probably need to do 6-8 section passes for each section of paint you buff.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/990/1eoWhite015.jpg


When you move onto a new section, overlap a little into the previous section for what I call UMR

UMR = Uniform Material Removal


Here, just wrote a brand new article to explain this concept...


UMR = Uniform Material Removal - Removing the same amount of paint when doing correction work for a uniform appearance (https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/2017-new-car-detailing-how-article-mike-phillips/111239-umr-uniform-material-removal-removing-same-amount-paint-when-doing-correction-work-uniform-appearance.html)








e.g. can I use the orange pad (which I can buy as many as I want today versus ordering online and paying shipping) for both something like compound for things that polish wont take out, and also as the last step for just polish before applying wax with the red pad, or will over time these orange pads prove to be too abrasive and wear out the paint abnormally fast.



The pads will become LESS abrasive with use, not more abrasive.

Wet pads don't cut well.

Ask the guys behind the counter about the relationship between correcting paint with clean dry pads and wet soggy pads and see what they say? :laughing:


Clearcoats are hard for the most part. There are some exceptions but generally speaking, clearcoat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and in the history of the "car" we've only had 2 basic paint system. You'll find out as you buff out more cars.





The product description for the Black Griots Pad (which I assume would line up with the white/green LC pad) says for dark cars and delicate paint, seems less versatile and more of a stop gap between the orange and red pads for specific use scenarios, not a normal item which people will buy bunches of as a normal step to doing a 3 step process.



Compounding or removing the defects is the step that takes the longest.

For the average size passenger car, to ONLY compound it with a simple orbital polisher, (that's the Griot's, the Porter Cable, the Meguiar's MT300, etc.), will take you about 6 hours if your good and if your fast and if you don't take breaks.

The reason why is because you CANNOT move the polisher fast over the surface simply to get the job done faster. You must move the polisher slowly and again, divide larger panels into smaller sections. I speak from experience, the fastest a really good detailer could buff out a 2-door Honda Accord that needs compounding would maybe be 4 hours, maybe... for most you're looking at 6 hours and that's just the compounding step.

Again, watch the video. It' is the most detailed video I've ever made and the most detailed video I've ever watched compared to what others have made and most of the techniques it I am the original source for, others learned it from me.






I'm trying to get enough pads today when I pick up the da to actually do the one step but feel as If i buy 3 or 4 orange pads just to use it one time while I order more online I have unnecessarily wasted money if said orange pads are only useful for compounding (which I will not need much of unless I abuse the paint surface) etc and not finish polishing




If it were me and I was buffing out a 2015 Honda Civic with light swirls, for the first machine step I would want to have 6 pads minimum.

You can buff out sections so much faster with a clean dry pad than trying to limp along with a wet soggy pad.

Also - your pads will last longer overall or over time. When people try to buff out cars using one or two pads, it punishes the pads and they give up. Using a pad for a panel and then taking it off and switching to a new pad makes your pads last longer over time.

Been there... detailed that...



:)

[Mike Phillips]

For that last few years, in order to share the point of more pads is better, I safe all the pads I use for the cars I detail and take a pictures.

A pictures shares a thousand words...


Here's just one example....


How to use Griot's Garage to detail your car - A detail job Richard Griot would be proud of! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/106445-how-use-griots-garage-detail-your-car-detail-job-richard-griot-would-proud.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3252/Cuda_Detail_046.jpg



Hope all the info I've shared helps....


:)

[txchevyz71]

I was just going to add that if he's buying Griot's pads. It's actually cheaper to buy them here at Autogeek, even if you pay shipping. if you buy 3 they are 39.99 (even cheaper if there is a sale) Shipping is... well shipping. you'd have to pay sales tax elsewhere....

and yes I am cheap. I pretty much do cost analysis on everything.....

I just got a big box of pads delivered yesterday. Thanks Autogeek!

[Velozzity]

I was just going to add that if he's buying Griot's pads. It's actually cheaper to buy them here at Autogeek, even if you pay shipping. if you buy 3 they are 39.99 (even cheaper if there is a sale) Shipping is... well shipping. you'd have to pay sales tax elsewhere....

and yes I am cheap. I pretty much do cost analysis on everything.....

I just got a big box of pads delivered yesterday. Thanks Autogeek!

The reason I bought the Da from a competitor was said competitor was having a $50 off coupon for purchases over $150, So I paid $117 out the door for the kit. I have no urge to do multiple cars with this kit, and only want to buy what is necessary to do my own car and maybe in the future an older car that will be handed down to my son, but for the time being it starts with the 2015 civic.

58402

this is the car as it stands now more or less. I live in a rural environment so I know any buffing etc is going to be a royal pain not getting contaminants on the surface. I probably will just the griots one step the first time then follow up with some type of protectant wax etc in a few months. Either way I wanted something capable of more correcting if I ever needed it.

The main reason I even came to the forums was because my craftsman wax spreader fell apart and decided why not spent an additional 50 bucks or so to get alot more versatile machine. Little did I know or pick up that buffers almost use the Gillette model, meaning the cost of the buffer itself can at times be the same or less than the needed pads to operate it, much how the razor blades cost more than the actual stick that holds them. Anyway I guess I can get by with those 3 orange pads even If i Have to do half the car each day until I decide whether to go all out on pads (like buying a 6 pack of Lake country pads) or just make due with what I have and spend more time.

I more or less know about the whole section pass concept, when I was in College like forever ago I worked for a year or so at a local wash shop (wont call it detail, we only applied wax and cleaner wax with a orbital buffer) we basically did the same thing, just did the whole car at one time. I just need to get it out of my head that I can do the whole car with few pads....