Coating Questions - End-of-Life

[Route246]

Sorry for the naivete'.

I know nothing about coatings but I have friends who have it on their daily drivers. I have some basic questions.

Does it require anything beyond routine washing?

If so, what is recommended? Clay, sealant, wax?

What happens near end-of-life of the coating product? Water beading deterioration, shine deterioration?

Lastly, once it reaches end-of-life what comes next? Does it need to be stripped and reapplied?

I hear a lot about prep, application and satisfaction but not much about when the coating wears down and starts deteriorating.

[daimler]

I haven't had cars that I worked which has reached its rated end of life yet. But what I do to maintain a coated car is to apply booster to add more life to the coating.

[Route246]

I haven't had cars that I worked which has reached its rated end of life yet. But what I do to maintain a coated car is to apply booster to add more life to the coating.

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. I have a friend with a garaged Ford that got a ceramic coating at the dealer when he bought it 4+ years ago. When I saw the water beading I asked him if he waxed it recently. He said nothing but automatic car washes for 4+ years!!! The paint is pretty bad from a detailer's perspective but the water still beads scary good.

His paint can use some detailing but I wonder what to do about the coating which still seems to be working, albeit on an abused paint surface.

[FUNX650]

IMO:
-It appears the signs pointing to the
end of Coatings' service-lives can be
just as befuddling, and varied, as is:
-the claims/disclaimers given for their
expected service-life by their marketers,
manufacturers, end-users, et al.



Bob

[Route246]

IMO:
-It appears the signs pointing to the
end of Coatings' service-lives can be
just as befuddling, and varied, as is:
-the claims/disclaimers given for their
expected service-life by their marketers,
manufacturers, end-users, et al.



Bob

Which brings up two points as a detailer.


1. How do you determine if a coating is in the history of the car if the owner doesn't know? Worse yet, how to do you determine a plan of action not knowing this? I suspect this can complicate a consultation with a prospective customer if he or she doesn't know the history.

2. Suppose it does have a coating but the paint needs attention and the prospective customer doesn't want to pay for another coating. How do you proceed? Is the worn coating a curse at this point?

[Legacykid]

Which brings up two points as a detailer.


1. How do you determine if a coating is in the history of the car if the owner doesn't know? Worse yet, how to do you determine a plan of action not knowing this? I suspect this can complicate a consultation with a prospective customer if he or she doesn't know the history.

2. Suppose it does have a coating but the paint needs attention and the prospective customer doesn't want to pay for another coating. How do you proceed? Is the worn coating a curse at this point?

I think you answered your own question here with #2.

Some of the auto car washes put spray wax on cars, which coupled with the coating might make it appear the coating is still good. But to me what it comes down to is what the paint looks like. I tell clients its not worth a 5 year coating unless its a garaged kept, show car type of vehicle. But on daily drivers I push 2 year coatings because even if it last 3, it will eventually need a polish again to look good.

If the client had a coating before, push for a coating again, I am sure your coating is better then a "dealers coating" unless they used a professional. And as you mentioned it needs a good polish!


As far as maintenance I have my cleints come once a year(ish) and do a chemical decon and sealant on top to "prolong" the life of the coating.

And from what I have seen when a coating is failing it looses its hydrophobic properties. The "shine deterioration" is subjective but swirls are swirls and will over time make your glossy paint appear less glossy! But how can you tell about the other properties failing on a coating (water etching resistance, marring, uv, whatever else) I dont think there is a way to really know or not. Most clients go off of beading after all so if it is at the manufacturers life expectancy and you are unsure... Recoat!!

[FUNX650]

Which brings up two points as a detailer.


1. How do you determine if a coating
is in the history of the car if the owner
doesn't know? Worse yet, how to do you
determine a plan of action not knowing
this? I suspect this can complicate a
consultation with a prospective customer
if he or she doesn't know the history.

2. Suppose it does have a coating
but the paint needs attention and the
prospective customer doesn't want to
pay for another coating. How do you
proceed? Is the worn coating a curse
at this point?
Which, IMO, brings further scrutiny
to a couple of the points that you
raised in your OP.

TO WIT:



I have a friend with a garaged Ford
that got a ceramic coating at the dealer
when he bought it 4+ years ago.

1.) His paint can use some detailing

2.a) but I wonder what to do
about the coating
2.b) which still seems to be working,

3.) albeit on an abused paint surface.

:confused:

Bob

[RippyD]

Great questions and comments. I'll ask the same rhetorical question I've asked before: if I have to correct and seal every 6 months, what's the point of a coating? If paint still gets swirled out, what is it really protecting? I'll have 2 of 3 cars coated this summer. My point is that none of this is very clearly explained or well understood (apparently).

On the sister site I asked a question in a discussion about layering coatings. One expensive coating apparently looks much better when you layer it with their 2nd expensive coating. So either of them look great alone, but together they look phenomenal. These are likely very good products made by a reputable company. But when these claims are not validated by somebody objectively, it's hard to not raise an eyebrow.

Many years ago I was an audiophile. Talking about some of this stuff is like talking to an audiophile about speaker cables. "I spent $800 on my speaker cables and my system sounds great - of course they make a difference." I have no reason to believe the placebo effect is not just as powerful regarding LSPs as it is in consumer audio. .

[Octopiston]

For the original question. I really like coatings. I'm not one that wants to rub an lsp on my car after every wash. I have too many other things to do. I also let my coatings be coatings, aka I don't boost/top them. I treat them like a clear coat with the exception of polishing, or adding an lsp. When do I consider it failed? When it no longer acts like it did. So from what I've seen it displays a lack of hydrophobic characteristics when breaking down. It also started getting more road grime caked on it after a rain. IMO, the gloss is there from good paint prep. So no, I didn't see any loss of gloss.
At that point you can use a soap without glossifiers, etc and clay. If it still won't work, I'd call it dead and reapply. I went through this with my wife's car recently. I washed her's and mine, both are coated. I saw how mine reacted to water (sheeting), her's not so much anymore with the same soap. I need to repolish it when I get a chance, so I hit it with hydroblue for quick protection for now. Sure that "boosted it" aka all Hydro blue imo, until I can get time to do the polishing and recoating.




IMO, run an lsp BY IT'S SELF. That's right, don't top or boost regardless if it is a wax, sealant, or coating. Let the original lsp do it's thing. When it stops acting like it did, try decontaminating and use a soap without glossifiers, etc. If that doesn't work, its probably time to reapply. Now you have a base line for future preventative maintenance aka reapplication of your chosen lsp.

Is a booster actually maintaining it, or topping it? Does it actually make the coating "last longer" or does it really mask the breakdown of said coating? As stated before, if you are having to continually "boost" or "top" it as maintenance, is it really better and does it really last longer than a sealant?

Here is how I view boosters. Excellent marketing on the manufacturer's part. What better way to get you to buy more product after spending $ on a longer lasting product than to sell a "maintenance" product? As an extra bonus, you are now making the original product seem like it lasts longer. Win win for the manufacturer. Lets look at it with other products. Couldn't you in theory make a single application of carnauba "last a year" by "boosting" it with a good spray wax every week too?

[Route246]

Many years ago I was an audiophile. Talking about some of this stuff is like talking to an audiophile about speaker cables. "I spent $800 on my speaker cables and my system sounds great - of course they make a difference." I have no reason to believe the placebo effect is not just as powerful regarding LSPs as it is in consumer audio. .

I, too, am a reformed audiophile. I have a hardcore audiophile friend who spent $2000 on speaker cables and those were used. I asked him if they made his system sound better. He told it me depends on which direct-to-disc album he was playing and through which amp and preamp.

58100


Currently, as a reformed audiophile, this is the extent of my sickness. Nobsound tube preamp, Koss Pro 4-AAA (non-liquid ear cushion) studio headphones. As long as you use FLAC this setup sounds pretty analog.

[glfnaz]

I'm a FLAC snob. Been that way for a long time.

[mumps]

When discs are not an option; FLAC for me as well.

Chris

[RippyD]

I, too, am a reformed audiophile. I have a hardcore audiophile friend who spent $2000 on speaker cables and those were used. I asked him if they made his system sound better. He told it me depends on which direct-to-disc album he was playing and through which amp and preamp.

Currently, as a reformed audiophile, this is the extent of my sickness. Nobsound tube preamp, Koss Pro 4-AAA (non-liquid ear cushion) studio headphones. As long as you use FLAC this setup sounds pretty analog.
I'm sorry you're still in recovery. Let me know if I can help in any way. (I still have 2 pairs of Aerial speakers. But... it would cost me more to replace them than to not. AND... I'm running regular 12g speaker wire.)

I had to stop trying to have discussions with people with think speaker wires are tone controls and other audiophile beliefs. It's like arguing about religion. Not saying that layering coatings to get a certain look is the same thing, but... it would be nice to see coating 1, coating 2, and then coating 1+2 to see if there's really a difference.

And even if we can see a difference, does it matter if the car owner can't? Did DG 111, Collinite, and another sealant I don't recall on three adjacent panels of the wife's car. After polishing, of course. Asked her to tell me which one looked better. She politely told me her car looked great and walked away. They all looked the same to her.