Flex 3401- how safe is it?

[ZoranC]

... I really wanted a Flex and even had the wife ready to buy it for me for Christmas, so why didn't I get it? I got a little lesson on how to really use a rotary from a friend that owns a bodyshop.
I hope impartial conversations contributed a little bit too ;)

[budman3]

Could you, please, elaborate?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-tools-accessories/11454-flex-bad-ccs-pads.html

1- There wasn't much activity in that thread but the same one posted on Autopia came to MotorCity's conclusion, that you have to keep the Flex flat unless the CCS pads will fail prematurely.

2- A person on another another board, as MotorCity also stated, burned through the clear coat with the Flex.

3- From what I've read the Flex is a powerful & professional machine and I'm getting the feeling that I wouldn't let a novice use the machine like I would let someone use a PC or UDM, as I have in the past. I don't want to give it to someone and burn the paint or trim. Since I have no actual experience with a Flex, it's hard for me to tell how the Flex actually works and its behavior.

[ZoranC]

And the issues about the CCS pads pertaining to machine misuse is what led to my statement about letting a rookie use the machine, like I wouldn't give them a rotary to use.
Instead of scarrying people away from the tool because they will most likely not use it properly they should be taught how to properly use the tool. Considering some rookies do not keep pad flat on PC and end up fumbling it up does that mean you would not give them PC to use either? What we should give them? Towel? Well, even that can cause marring. What then?

I say "educate" instead of "dumb it down to lowest common denominator and blame it on tool".

[ZoranC]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-tools-accessories/11454-flex-bad-ccs-pads.html

1- There wasn't much activity in that thread but the same one posted on Autopia came to MotorCity's conclusion, that you have to keep the Flex flat unless the CCS pads will fail prematurely.
To my knowledge recommandation to keep pads flat has been in place for every DA polisher out there for years now, there is nothing new there that is just Flex specific.

Also, I can show CCS pads (and you can find my posts on that subject upon search) that have been used flat yet have been failing prematurely. Common thread to them was that they have been used on DA polishers that are not even as strong as Flex but are stronger than "PCs".


2- A person on another another board, as MotorCity also stated, burned through the clear coat with the Flex.
Somehow I missed that post. Still, what is bad about that that is specific to Flex? People have burnt through clear even with PCs. And we are talking experienced people.


3- From what I've read the Flex is a powerful & professional machine and I'm getting the feeling that I wouldn't let a novice use the machine like I would let someone use a PC or UDM, as I have in the past. I don't want to give it to someone and burn the paint or trim.
I would feel more comfortable giving rookie Flex than PC. Way Flex positions hands results in more precise control of it. Also trigger feathering helps. Just limit them to lower speed and tell them to use trigger, problem solved. Can't do that on a PC.


Since I have no actual experience with a Flex, it's hard for me to tell how the Flex actually works and its behavior.
Then maybe subject should be put aside until hands-on experience is acquired.

[budman3]

Then maybe subject should be put aside until hands-on experience is acquired.

Well once again, sorry for trying to research a product without actually buying it before hand. I'm not sure what your deal is but it is apparent that you need to nitpick all of my posts. This thread was going nicely until that began happening. The purpose of the thread was to answer questions a few members had about the Flex since it was a relatively new product at the time. There are still a few questions that have been left unanswered and no they are not from me, so you may have overlooked that.

[ZoranC]

Well once again, sorry for trying to research a product without actually buying it before hand. I'm not sure what your deal is but it is apparent that you need to nitpick all of my posts. This thread was going nicely until that began happening. The purpose of the thread was to answer questions a few members had about the Flex since it was a relatively new product at the time. There are still a few questions that have been left unanswered and no they are not from me, so you may have overlooked that.
Allow me to disagree.

Thread was going on fine until post #18, your second post IIRC if we don't count thread starter. All of the sudden your interest in learning about the tool took a turn and you have started to talk about things that have nothing to do with the tool as if they are tool's flaws.

Care to explain why and what your deal is that is making you do so?

What you perceive as a nitpicking is an analysis of your statements one by one. Do you have any answer on any of them, starting with why not keeping pads flat is operator's fault with PCs but is perceived as a Flex' flaw by you?

Or you are going to continue making vague negative statements without providing any support behind them and call any attempt to stand up behind them a nitpicking?

How you can even talk would you or wouldn't you give a certain tool to a rookie when you have never used that tool yourself? By doing so you are making ridiclously wild assumptions. That is exactly why I keep "encouraging" you to do a check of reality first before continuing to speak on subject with zero experience in.

[budman3]

Thread was going on fine until post #18, your second post IIRC if we don't count thread starter. All of the sudden your interest in learning about the tool took a turn and you have started to talk about things that have nothing to do with the tool as if they are tool's flaws.

It was my 3rd post only after 1 willing member helped out, after almost a whole week... when people usually get answers is a few hours. There was a lot of hype about how great the machine is but no useful information about the other end of the spectrum... which was the purpose of the thread. The UDM recieved similar praise yet left so many disappointed, I wanted to make sure this wasn't the same case.


Care to explain why and what your deal is that is making you do so?

What you perceive as a nitpicking is an analysis of your statements one by one. Do you have any answer on any of them, starting with why not keeping pads flat is operator's fault with PCs but is perceived as a Flex' flaw by you?

If a Flex isn't compatible with certain pads I'd like to know about it. One member brought up the issue about the tilt of the pads causing a problem. You then say that CCS pads with D/As wear down fast anyways... this is good information for Flex owners to know that their CCS pads won't last as long. And I never said the Flex was flawed, I would never say that since I have no experience with it.


Or you are going to continue making vague negative statements without providing any support behind them and call any attempt to stand up behind them a nitpicking?

How you can even talk would you or wouldn't you give a certain tool to a rookie when you have never used that tool yourself? By doing so you are making ridiclously wild assumptions. That is exactly why I keep "encouraging" you to do a check of reality first before continuing to speak on subject with zero experience in.

Well you definitely don't know why I do what I do. You are assuming a whole lot and frankly are wrong. I had 2 agendas (as stated earlier), one to get some personal questions answered and another to help the new members on the forum. If the Flex isn't as safe as a PC I would have a hard time recommending it to a new member looking to buy a machine... where no one would be there to educate them. I've read mixed reviews where people are recommending the Flex out of the blue to rookies and others say to wait and get experience before using the Flex... which one is the most logical choice??I know I (hypothetical person -- rookie) wouldn't want to drop $300 on a machine, use it for the first time, burn the paint and trim and not be able to use the machine. I have let plenty of people use my PC and UDM but that wasn't the point of the questions. You assumed that I wouldn't teach someone how to use the machine if I gave them one to try which is not true. I was trying to get the questions answered for new members whether or not the Flex is safe for them to use. Zoran please don't respond to this... lets try to bring this thread back on topic and away from posts back and forth between us...

[budman3]

Back to the original topic, here are a few questions we had that didn't really get answered through all of the off topic discussions:
-What are the time savings between a Flex and a rotary?
-Which EU car manufacturers use the Flex?
-Where did you learn this info?
-Do the car manufacturers have to replace their bp's on the units they use?
-How long has the Flex been around?
-Is a rotary obsolete if you have a Flex? (personal vs. professional use?)
-Has anyone intentionally left the Flex in one spot (on spare hood or junker) to see how long it would take to burn?
-What's up with the original BP and a new 5.5" backing plate being shipped to some that have the Flex?

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

To keep things in perspective clear can be, and has been, damaged with PC too, even in hands of experienced users.


Agreed 100%

[Thejoyofdriving]

How safe is the flex? My opinion: Relatively safe. I think there is a fairly short learning curve. I would have no problem jumping right onto my vehicle with the flex, given that i have had some experience with orbital buffers. Damaged any paint yet? No, and dont plan to. Ive left the felx in one spot on max speed for a few seconds, and there was minimal heat build up, risk factor low. Does it replace the rotary? Not sure, never used a rotary. Does it replace a PC/UMD? in my opinion YES. To the extent of my current knowledge the Flex is the safest most effective paint correction tool on the market, period. First time i used it i had no problems what so ever finishing up a car perfect, no hazing, marring, or holograms. I think that if you have had experience with polishers before, you would need minimal "training/practice" with the flex before you become comfortable with it. /if you have never used a polisher before, I would still recommend the flex, just do a little practice first on some extra body panels.

[Detail_Guy]

-What are the time savings between a Flex and a rotary?
-Which EU car manufacturers use the Flex?
-Where did you learn this info?
-Do the car manufacturers have to replace their bp's on the units they use?
-How long has the Flex been around?
-Is a rotary obsolete if you have a Flex? (personal vs. professional use?)
-Has anyone intentionally left the Flex in one spot (on spare hood or junker) to see how long it would take to burn?
-What's up with the original BP and a new 5.5" backing plate being shipped to some that have the Flex?

I'll take a couple of them, someone else can take the others, as I have no idea.

To date, I've only used my son's Flex 3 times, so here are my answers with limited experience with the machine.

I would say that I can correct paint in 1/4 of the time using a rotary vs a PC. The Flex seems like it can do it in about 1/2 the time of a PC.

I don't think that the Flex can completely replace a rotary... but that depends on how intense the paint correction is that you tackle.

At it's highest speed, with an aggressive pad, it wouldn't take to long for the Flex to burn paint, or blister it, or at least haze it, but you would almost have to do it by intent.

I believe there is an issue with the adhesive on some of the backing plates? I haven't used this one enough to have an issue... we'll see. I also think some people prefer a smaller backing plate with 6 1/2" pads.

To sum it up, I would go this far...

If I was still in the detailing biz, or doing a lot of vehicles, I would definitely have a Flex. Also, now that I've used one, I won't be without one. Anybody in the market for a good used PC. :D

[budman3]

Detail guy, you've been a huge help thanks again! Joy, thanks for your thoughts as well, you have a lot of experience when it comes to orbitals and DA's and your info is helpful. Now only if the Flex was a little bit cheaper...

[Detail_Guy]

Detail guy, you've been a huge help thanks again! Joy, thanks for your thoughts as well, you have a lot of experience when it comes to orbitals and DA's and your info is helpful. Now only if the Flex was a little bit cheaper...

No problem. I understand that $300 is a lot of money for a "detailing toy". :D

Take the time to decide... it's your money!

[ZoranC]

Zoran please don't respond to this... lets try to bring this thread back on topic and away from posts back and forth between us...
I had no intention to as conversations that other side tends to spin in circle make me feel like a "dizzy go 'round" but considering you asked more questions here are the answers for those that are not willing to do their homework and once again demand to be spoon fed:


How long has the Flex been around?
Company or XC 3401 VRG?

Company since 1922. XC 3401 VRG has been announced on 01/01/2007.

Bothe informations can be found easily in less than a minute if one wants to, here Welcome to FLEX North America (http://flexnorthamerica.com/about.html) and here FLEX Power Tools - Elektrowerkzeuge seit 1922 (http://flex-tools.de/gb/Neuheiten/produktneuheiten/2007_03_21_4.php) .


What are the time savings between a Flex and a rotary?
That subject has been addressed before and answer can be easily found if one searches for it. I will not be providing proof here as linking to other forums is not allowed.


Is a rotary obsolete if you have a Flex? (personal vs. professional use?)
That question too has been discussed more than once if one searches for a minute. Not just on other boards but here also
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-forum/11180-d2g-review-flex-xc-3401-a-2.html#post158714


What's up with the original BP and a new 5.5" backing plate being shipped to some that have the Flex?
That subject has been beaten to death so many times it is next to impossible for anybody that reads any forum even a little bit to miss it. One minute search will yield tons of posts, both here and elsewhere. Therefore I will not bother to point out even few of them.

Bottom line, yes, our back and forth in this thread will end because it is a waste to spoon feed people that should be capable enough to find info asked for on their own if they would invest even a little of the effort. Those that really need help are always welcome.

[Jimmie]

LOL. Hehehaha. Well that last question was mine and I still don't know. I guess it's like a recall issue. I don't get around to other sites and I've never seen it referred too here. Got to admit that I didn't do a search and I usually do. Well, thanks to the guys that were willing to share and shed some light on the subject. Hope that I can reciprocate.