Topping Of Coatings?

[Zubair]

Why on earth would one have any need to coat if theres always a topper like Reload or a wax ontop of the coating? If the coating always has a topper that means the looks, water behaviour etc all take on the characteristics of the topper. Why not just use the topper? To me it seems like the maintenance and protecting of coatings defeat the whole point of coatings entirely. I see more maintenance being needed for coatings then I have for any other detailing product. The protection needs protection lol how absurd is that? Where's the logic people?

Our LSP's use to be the protection and last line of defence. We didn't need to protect our wax or sealant. When it started losing its durability we just reapplied. If you want to protect your coating, why not just leave it in the bottle? If your bodyguard needs a bodyguard get a new bodyguard.

[Eldorado2k]

I totally agree. Except I've been thinking/saying this long before I even heard about coatings.. Which is why I've always been against the idea of using spray waxes/sealants in hopes of "boosting" or "extending" your base or current layer of traditional liquid or paste sealant. IMO all you wind up doing is turning your finish into whatever you top it with, which in turn simply leaves you with an inferior layer of protection than you initially started out with in the 1st place.

If you use Meguiars Ultimate Spray Wax as an example, nowhere on the label does in describe it as a booster, a topper, additional layer, or anything of that sort.. It simply and clearly describes it as a pretty darn long lasting protecting sealant that applies easier and faster than you ever could've imagined possible if you're used to the old school way of "waxing" your vehicle. And that's exactly what it is, a stand alone sealant that just so happens to come in liquid spray form.

Booster my butt! It deserves enough respect to stand alone and not be just thought of as a booster on top of your "real" layer of protection.... But hey, it wouldn't make sense to allow you to believe it's gotten That easy right? So don't you dare use it on its own or your paint might not be protected... That last part was sarcasm.

I've always said it out loud, boost and top to your hearts content, but keep in mind you're only showing love to that topper, and not your so called dedicated layer that you think you're preserving.. And the proof shows up very soon when you're out there needing to clay your paint every 2-3 months, you can thank your toppers weak protection for that.

That's why I never top with an inferior form of protection, and because of that I rarely ever have to clay.


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[Jeremy1976]

I agree. I wanted a coating for low maintenance on my personal vehicles. This would help out tremendously especially when I am busy with customer vehicles. A maintenance RW weekly I can see. I was wanting a coating to get out of the claying twice a year. If I could coat them with 100% paint, then just do a maintenance wash weekly or bi weekly, while keeping the gloss and shine for 2 years without boosters and other stuff, I would be happy. Its just not realistic in Wisconsin though with the winters....

[Zubair]

Lets digress ever so slightly whilst trying to stay on topic. Topping another coating with a coating. Lets use GTechniq CSL Black as an eg. which is CSL topped with Exo. CSL is harder and less prone to swirling but it doesn't have as good water behaviour hence topping with Exo. So the Exo being more prone to swirling is ontop the CSL. Whats the point??? Its not like you can buff out the Exo and the CSL will still be left intact.
Using one or the other makes sense but the topping combo just doesn't.

[TTQ B4U]

Lets digress ever so slightly whilst trying to stay on topic. Topping another coating with a coating. Lets use GTechniq CSL Black as an eg. which is CSL topped with Exo. CSL is harder and less prone to swirling but it doesn't have as good water behaviour hence topping with Exo. So the Exo being more prone to swirling is ontop the CSL. Whats the point??? Its not like you can buff out the Exo and the CSL will still be left intact.
Using one or the other makes sense but the topping combo just doesn't.

^^ this. On my pure black car it was always susceptible to micro marring from microfiber towels, especially when buffing or wiping of detail spray after a wash. That's no longer an issue for me. Also, the coating really enhanced the look of the paint giving it an ultra candied gloss that to me wasn't there with even the best 'naubas or synthetics. Lastly, the use of a coating greatly reduced the adhesiion of dust and dirt. Prior, if I drove my car around the block it would be metallic black due to dust. Now I can drive my car for days before dust builds up to that level. I do mainly rinseless washing and it's far easier to do now too. It's clear that dirt doesn't stick nearly as much.

I noticed last night too that the wheel coating really shined through in terms of dirt removal. I used nothing but rinseless solution and my speed-brush to clean off the inside of my wheels and I could see the dirt and liquid sheeting off the wheel like it never would do without it. Not that easily or completely.

So for me the benefits are:

Candy-like appearance
Greatly reduced dust adhesion
Ease of cleaning.

[Zubair]

The intention of the thread is not a case against coatings. We all know the pro's and con's around coatings. Whats being questioned is the topping/maintenance side of things which nullifies the existence of coatings which came into existence for those not having time to repeat seal or wax and needed a "maintenance free" solution. It now has become a joke as its the most time consuming, maintenance requiring, counter productive, costly solution that is against the sole/core reason for its existence.

[Setec Astronomy]

Don't you think this is just the OCD nature of the people on this forum? Members generally love to "detail" their car, so if they apply a coating, they still want to do SOMETHING. Or maybe it's just the belt-and-suspenders approach...ok, I've got my clearcoat...I wanted to protect that...so I spent a lot of time polishing and coating...that was a lot of work...don't want to have to do that again soon, I'd better protect it with some spray wax...

[Zubair]

^^^Agreed^^^

They shouldn't scratch where it dont itch or try and fix whats not broken. Its their OCD thats made "topping" a hard and fast rule buts its a wasted/redundant step.

[Setec Astronomy]

Hey, find something you like and use it often, right?

[natewood70]

I feel like this topic will be debated until the end of time. I put a coating on a car for the first time a few months ago (Wolfgang Uber Ceramic) and I still use D156 after every wash.

I don't feel that diminishes the purpose of the coating, I see it as an extra layer of protection/gloss. Ever since applying the coating I have never cleaned a car that released dirt/contaminants as easily as this vehicle does. Period. Not a car with wax, not a car with a sealant, not a car with a sealant/wax combo, nothing. Even after 3 months of being outside 24/7 under trees and driving 50 miles a day M-F I still don't have a need to clay bar the vehicle anywhere.

To me the coating makes it much easier to clean, provides a longer lasting layer of protection (compared to a sealant/wax), and I dare say, a BETTER layer of protection than a sealant or wax. Why do I say that? Simply by knowing that I haven't had to bust out the clay to remove anything from the paint like I've had to do on my other vehicle that experiences similar conditions.

More isn't always better which is something we as detailers/enthusiasts know. In this case however by using another LSP that doesn't diminish the look and adds some additional protection, I don't see what there is to debate IMO. Before you ask, no it's not a grueling additional step to spray D156 on a panel that already needs to be dried. It adds maybe another 30-60 seconds total onto my drying time which is totally worth it to me.

[RippyD]

^^ this. On my pure black car it was always susceptible to micro marring from microfiber towels, especially when buffing or wiping of detail spray after a wash. That's no longer an issue for me. Also, the coating really enhanced the look of the paint giving it an ultra candied gloss that to me wasn't there with even the best 'naubas or synthetics. Lastly, the use of a coating greatly reduced the adhesiion of dust and dirt. Prior, if I drove my car around the block it would be metallic black due to dust. Now I can drive my car for days before dust builds up to that level. I do mainly rinseless washing and it's far easier to do now too. It's clear that dirt doesn't stick nearly as much.

I noticed last night too that the wheel coating really shined through in terms of dirt removal. I used nothing but rinseless solution and my speed-brush to clean off the inside of my wheels and I could see the dirt and liquid sheeting off the wheel like it never would do without it. Not that easily or completely.

So for me the benefits are:

Candy-like appearance
Greatly reduced dust adhesion
Ease of cleaning.
Which coating?

[TTQ B4U]

Which coating?

McKee's 37 Paint, Wheel and Glass coatings are what I'm using on my vehicles and those of my customers. So far I'm very pleased. The glass coating is the only one I have just this one brand of experience with so I can't compare it to others. I want to say it's not as hydrophobic as some other products I've used but it does offer a very long lasting surface that doesn't cause wipers to skip.

[RippyD]

^^^Got it. I have a test of McKee's going on one car. I get flairly slow sheeting action from it. Looks identical in appearance and sheeting to Duragloss coating on my test hood. If you consider the longevity of these coatings they are all ridiculously cheap relative to a monthly WOWO.

I think the question for most of us is doing a monthly or bi-weekly WOWA vs. a coating. If you like doing the WOWO, why bother with a coating? Six months ago I didn't get this. But now I get that spraying a little Aquawax (or Blackfire, or Opt, or whatever) sealant/wax can be very satisfying. I will say that a coating in Winter is very much appreciated. I can do a riseless wash in the garage and the car just looks great with no additional step.

Will give McKee's glass coating later. Right now all my glass is coated with Opt glass coating, which is great. I don't get any skipping, but I do get some minor hazing left behind after a wiper swipe. I believe this is micro-beads of water that disappear quickly. It makes the wipers different, but not worse. The real value to me is rear windows without a wiper. Night and day difference if you keep them clean.

[The Guz]

^^^Got it. I have a test of McKee's going on one car. I get flairly slow sheeting action from it. Looks identical in appearance and sheeting to Duragloss coating on my test hood. If you consider the longevity of these coatings they are all ridiculously cheap relative to a monthly WOWO.

I think the question for most of us is doing a monthly or bi-weekly WOWA vs. a coating. If you like doing the WOWO, why bother with a coating? Six months ago I didn't get this. But now I get that spraying a little Aquawax (or Blackfire, or Opt, or whatever) sealant/wax can be very satisfying. I will say that a coating in Winter is very much appreciated. I can do a riseless wash in the garage and the car just looks great with no additional step.

Will give McKee's glass coating later. Right now all my glass is coated with Opt glass coating, which is great. I don't get any skipping, but I do get some minor hazing left behind after a wiper swipe. I believe this is micro-beads of water that disappear quickly. It makes the wipers different, but not worse. The real value to me is rear windows without a wiper. Night and day difference if you keep them clean.

Stick with opti-glass. It's better than McKee's.

[BadgerRivFan]

I feel like this topic will be debated until the end of time. I put a coating on a car for the first time a few months ago (Wolfgang Uber Ceramic) and I still use D156 after every wash.

I don't feel that diminishes the purpose of the coating, I see it as an extra layer of protection/gloss. Ever since applying the coating I have never cleaned a car that released dirt/contaminants as easily as this vehicle does. Period. Not a car with wax, not a car with a sealant, not a car with a sealant/wax combo, nothing. Even after 3 months of being outside 24/7 under trees and driving 50 miles a day M-F I still don't have a need to clay bar the vehicle anywhere.

To me the coating makes it much easier to clean, provides a longer lasting layer of protection (compared to a sealant/wax), and I dare say, a BETTER layer of protection than a sealant or wax. Why do I say that? Simply by knowing that I haven't had to bust out the clay to remove anything from the paint like I've had to do on my other vehicle that experiences similar conditions.

More isn't always better which is something we as detailers/enthusiasts know. In this case however by using another LSP that doesn't diminish the look and adds some additional protection, I don't see what there is to debate IMO. Before you ask, no it's not a grueling additional step to spray D156 on a panel that already needs to be dried. It adds maybe another 30-60 seconds total onto my drying time which is totally worth it to me.

Couldn't agree more with natewood70. I coated my wife's daily driver with Wolfgang Uber back in September. Does it need to be "topped" with anything? No. Have I topped it? Yes! After about the first month I rinseless washed the car with Uber rinseless and used Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid. The shine was incredible! Later that day we drove to a wedding reception with another couple on the interstate. My buddy commented as another car slowly passed us "Al - that guy is starring at your car!" I knew it was because of the incredible gloss provided by the overcoat.

For me, I will "top" whatever LSP I've chosen in search of the ultimate shine and gloss. Additional protection is nice but I don't really care about that. Trying new and different combinations of products is much of the fun of this hobby. Most of the folks that frequent this forum feel the same way I believe...