Water Spot Issues after Coatings are applied and how Paint reacts to hot and cold temperatures

[Velocitybts]

The below scenario I think it would be interesting to see how Mike/detailers would go about correcting the issue, or what can be done or not done.

1. A car (Aston Martin DB9) is paint corrected to perfection (20hrs spent) then coated with a coating such as CQuartz, 22PLE, Gyeon, Modesta etc.... 3 weeks later the customer comes back in and says there are water spots that appear below the coating. The customer says its not always visible but from certain angles they can see them and its driving them crazy.
a. you know the paint was perfect before the coating. So you inspect the vehicle, and sure enough at certain angles you can see the water spots, AND they are below the coating or in it, but not on the surface.
b. you need to make the customer happy so what are the next steps and what are the issues you will have?


Water Spots----- you know they are likely beneath the coating, however after you have washed the car, and brought the car inside and you are ready to start trying to remove the coating, you can no longer see any of the water spots!!!!
a. So, you pull the car back outside and leave it sitting to think about what the next step is while working a current customers car inside.
b. while taking a break you walk outside and notice----sure enough there are the water spots showing up again.
c. you immediately pull the car inside, let it cool down, and when using your swirl light again on it after it is cool you cannot find the spots anymore.

A> List out what or how or why you think the water spots are showing sometimes but not others
B> What is your next step?
C> The car has a coating on it, how do you know when you have removed the coating without taking off more clear coat?


This ends up being very complex as to why and how this situation can arise, and leaves the business in a pickle of what to do. I hope this will be interesting to see how Mike would handle it, explain how or why this is happening, and what others think of how to approach this.


In the end, I hope the readers learn a lot more about Paint (clear coat) and how it reacts with heat, and how to handle situations dealing with Coatings after the fact!!!!!

[chefwong]

Just a primer question, but once coated, was it cured with IR light or how long was it indoors@ the shop prior to being released into unknow environmental conditos

[Caleb@ImpeccableImage]

This is a topic discussed by Kevin Brown in one of Larry from AMMO NYC podcast. It is podcast episode 30: Branding and Coating Issues. Take a listen and it will explain this problem exactly and how to fix it. Best of luck!

[RPM_BR]

Thanks, Caleb

[Velocitybts]

Opps, sorry,

When the Vehicle was coated with the coating the IR heat lamps were used to cure the coating.

Sorry important point

[Velocitybts]

This is a topic discussed by Kevin Brown in one of Larry from AMMO NYC podcast. It is podcast episode 30: Branding and Coating Issues. Take a listen and it will explain this problem exactly and how to fix it. Best of luck!

Yep, it sure was. good catch, however this is a subject I have never seen talked about on this forum. The specifics of paint expansion and how that can affect conditions for working on the cars. Thought this would be a great way to discuss issues with coatings (and other issues not specifically pertaining to them) and get Mikes input on it.

I did have a slightly similar issue as done above, just not as in depth and as much as a problem. SO I expounded on that a bit to make it more of a discussion topic and I think it should be close to what was in that podcast possibly.

[Velocitybts]

Intended posting is supposed to garner the discussion of what you guys are dealing with due to coatings. They have been out for a few years now so longevity, difficultness in removing, re-applications etc.... are all topics that haven't been discussed on this forum as far as I can find.

1. Do any of you accept into your shops a car that was previously coated and the customer asking for a paint correction?
2. IF so, how are you gauging the depth of the coating vs. the clear paint layer. ie.....How do you know when you have cut through the layer of coating?

Those above questions are the purpose of this thread. IF those are not answered then it means detialers are avoiding the issue with coatings and not wanting to discuss those points, or refuse to allow previously coated cars into their shop. I know many don't want them. Due to the time to remove the coating, expense of that, and issues that can or could evolve in doing so.

My point is for High-end cars such as F cars, P cars, AM cars, RR, Mclarens etc........ DO you or do you not want to advise a customer to coat it due to possible issues down the road. I own a Aston Martin and I also love coatings. However in scientifically thinking about it, I wont be coating the vehicle due to possible issues down the road with it. One definite one----it will get marred somehow for sure. When it does, how do I know when I have buffed the coating off and then can work on leveling the clear coat? You cant, so chances are too likely that you would wear the clear layer out which prevents correction ability 20yrs down the road for someone. That is our job as detailers, to provide the best knowledgable advice to the customer for their car, using the car to advise. I feel that advising customers for high end cars to go with a coating is possibly counter-productive to the car being pristine itself. Love to hear some thoughts on this.

PS. I do love coatings----- I only use them on wheels, under body trays, suspension components, trim, interior bits etc.....but not on high-end paint. A DD such as a AMG Merc, sure why not use it on the paint, they are great products, but we are talking possible collector cars.

[TTQ B4U]

This is a topic discussed by Kevin Brown in one of Larry from AMMO NYC podcast. It is podcast episode 30: Branding and Coating Issues. Take a listen and it will explain this problem exactly and how to fix it. Best of luck!

downside to anything Larry at AMMO does is he takes 20 minutes to explain what could be done in 30 seconds. his vids and instructional stuff is painful to watch. I don't even tune in anymore.

[Mantilgh]

Are these coatings so durable that they will stand up against a polishing? I know some are leery claying a coating for fear of removing it.

Do they provide a measurable thickness?

If only half polished off, does it leave a noticeable line between the two?

What are these other problems that you speak of?

Wouldn't the same car, uncoated or not, still have swirls and marring that would need to be removed requiring polishing, and hence removing more clear anyway?

Why not treat like any other car that needs a correction, decon, clay, polish?

[chefwong]

When it does, how do I know when I have buffed the coating off and then can work on leveling the clear coat? You cant, so chances are too likely that you would wear

I'm either mis-reading this , but what diff. does it make to some degree. You're only leveling it as much as you choose - to change how it looks in the refracted light. Whether you're leveling the coating or CC, you're still just leveling it enough to minimize said swirl/marring...

[Mike lambert]

If I do a car that has water spots I use the IR lamp to make sure the spot are gone. If not I do what is needed to remove the remaining marks. Obviously measuring the paint as I go. We coat a lot of collector cars mainly for the ease of maintenance for the client, but as a side effect they look great. It has been my experience that you can notice a slightly different color when the coating is removed. You also have to be really concerned with residue control and clean the pads after every pass, if you're not doing that now. If I have a car that is coated I do charge extra as I won't re use those pads.

[Mantilgh]

Thank you Mike for providing some good real life feedback!

[chefwong]

Mike -

Not a pro, just a joe. I've tossed the applicators and consider the MF a consumable to be tossed after application.

Does the residue in coating when polishing off create "noticable micromarring", that requires either frequent cleaning /swapping of pads - per your last comment

[Mike lambert]

Absolutely,!

[Velocitybts]

If I do a car that has water spots I use the IR lamp to make sure the spot are gone. If not I do what is needed to remove the remaining marks. Obviously measuring the paint as I go. We coat a lot of collector cars mainly for the ease of maintenance for the client, but as a side effect they look great. It has been my experience that you can notice a slightly different color when the coating is removed. You also have to be really concerned with residue control and clean the pads after every pass, if you're not doing that now. If I have a car that is coated I do charge extra as I won't re use those pads.

Thank you Mike, This is what I am after for discussion about coatings. You did answer the water spot issue perfectly. Most people don't know or understand that when water spots occur the panels are typically heated up by the sun, which expands them. Then the water dries leaving the chemical residue and then the panel contracts taking a portion of the chemicals with it. Now its embedded in the paint itself to a degree and the only way to be really sure you have removed all the spots is to heat the panel up so they fully show up, then remove them. The contracting and expanding of panels under heat is what I was after. NO ONE typically talks about that stuff on here. I used the example in the padcast to bring this into a discussion. Was an easy way to back up my observations.

Residue control is also a huge topic which does apply to coatings when removing them. Glad you touched upon that